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On February 15 2010 09:00 On_Slaught wrote:
Idra always makes a big deal about cheesing, and has never shown any ability to stop it, so he constantly gets cheesed... and loses. Perhaps if he just faced the problem head on and learned to respond against proxies or eco builds better he would do better. The build orders he used showed he again had his cocky approach that noone would touch him even with cheese since he's so much better but again that gets proven wrong.
On a sadder note, this can't be good for Idra in the eyes of the CJ coaches.
This is dumb, people cheese on the professional level all the time and it works. Its the nature of PvT. The only one who really doesnt die to cheese is flash and thats because his micro is insane.
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I think a lot of you give Idra too much credit. He's on and has always been on the Korean B-team for a reason. Most of the top foreigners (obviously everyone in the TSL semifinals) could stagnate on Korean B-team level, although I would imagine that some of them (Nony included) could work their way to the A-team if they spent as much time in Korea as Idra has.
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On February 15 2010 10:45 Devolved wrote:
I think a lot of you give Idra too much credit. He's on and has always been on the Korean B-team for a reason. Most of the top foreigners (obviously everyone in the TSL semifinals) could stagnate on Korean B-team level, although I would imagine that some of them (Nony included) could work their way to the A-team if they spent as much time in Korea as Idra has.
Nonys not THAT good rofl.
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I dont understand most of the comments in this thread..
You are all saying "Idra is the better player, blah blah blah"... but uhh. Nony won by outthinking and outplaying him, plain and simple. Nony said he had no intent to cheese, but once he saw Idra do his builds, it was the obvious choice. THAT makes Nony the much better player, the ability to adapt, and why Idra will never be more. Nony has more than just 10 hours a day practicing 1 build over and over again. Hell, Nony hasnt even been practicing much, and still beat Idra..
Just imagine if Nony stayed in korea, he might actually of been able to crack an A team someday. I am not one to hype anyone, but Nony has skills, its undeniable, and hes smart as hell, not a 1-build wonder. Nony could actually adapt to games, and thats what makes players great. You could tell afew months before he even went to korea, taking out everyone in WCG and TSL.
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On February 15 2010 09:58 wonkman wrote:
I come online just missing the ro8 and i see the results and go wow nony won. Sweet! then i get in this thread expecting LOL IDRA GOT BEAT, OMG LOL WHY DID NONY WIN, OH WELL IDRA SUX! NONY BONJWA! Instead i see what happens in every favorite to win player vs another favorite to win player and its just a ragefestive trolling thread and this makes me wonder.
When did Idra get fanboys ? O.o
Other than that, wooo Nony!
ive been the biggest idra fanboy on tl for a while.
yo
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On February 15 2010 10:05 Majk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:38 zerglingsfolife wrote:On February 15 2010 09:29 Majk wrote:On February 15 2010 08:27 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. Idra usually is able to deflect them and win but when every foreigner you play does an abusive or "strategic" build of course you are going to lose a few games here and there. Then people say LOL Idra keeps losing to Foreigners even though he practices in Korea... No shit, but he also wins a lot more than he loses.
Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. He lost, props to Nony. Nony played intelligently and played to win like he should have.
I don't really understand the people saying Idra is bad? Hmm... I think you have missed the fact that Nony reacted to what Idra did in game 3,4 & 5. And yeah, it's real unfortunate that Idra canceled the CC in game 2 cause now Idra fanboys tries to take away Nony win with "If it wasn't for that miss-click..." even though Nony won in game 5 countering that exact greedy Barracks>CC opening. If Idra was so sure of being of out-macro Nony, then why did he try to cut corners? I'm really sick of posts in this thread trying to take away the wins from Players, that is in my mind BM... Even if you guys think "he would have won that if wasn't for X or Y" "He's a better overall player" etc... You don't know that! Keep thoughts like that for yourself until they are proven right. Um, I think you quoted the wrong person? I don't really see how what I said even applies to your response? My post was geared towards the idiots who say IdrA is a terrible person and should have a 100% win rate/Deflect every abusive build because he is in Korea. I'm not an IdrA fanboy. Nony is an amazing player that prepared some abusive builds for IdrA and performed well. How did I try take away anything from what NonY did? I said props to him winning and for playing smart! I think Idra tried to cut corners with the 1 rax FE because he wanted to have a build that would perform relatively well against 12 nexus, which is common for Protoss on FS. No, I did not quote wrong, Nony prepared for macro-games, he also prepared for responses if Idra was trying to cut corners like he did. Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. - You are stating that every other player is worse than Idra. Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. - Again, Nony reacted to Idra trying to cut corners. Game 1 and Game 4 Nony was trying to get ahead by 12 Nex and Proxygating and ended up loosing.. The other games he reacted to what Idra did and won. Both players were trying abusive builds getting ahead in the early game and Nony won cause he reacted better to what Idra did, not cause he was the only "abusive" player. Game 2, was unfortunate, but I can't believe that some other posters (not you) can say Idra would have won that game seeing what Nony did to that build in game 5....
Completely agree. I think the reason IdrA does those builds every once in a while, is because if you don't, you continually take small disadvantages if you play standard and your opponent knows what you are doing. It's kind of like why "better players" still 12 hatch sometimes in ZvZ because if you just 12 pool every game, the other players can 12 hatch and continuously get a build order advantage.
I'm curious what would have happened if Idra didn't cancel the CC, and the strategy in game 5 happened in game 2. I wonder if it would have affected IdrA more in terms of mentality, and also i wonder if it would affect his build in the 5th game on FS. Was really hoping for some later games. NonY had some great games on his stream where he went like scouts and corsairs/dweb late game. Was hoping to see some of that 
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On February 15 2010 09:38 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:29 Majk wrote:On February 15 2010 08:27 zerglingsfolife wrote:
Everyone(foreigners) who plays Idra knows that they are slightly worse, so they take a lot of gambles/abusive risks to try to get ahead. Idra usually is able to deflect them and win but when every foreigner you play does an abusive or "strategic" build of course you are going to lose a few games here and there. Then people say LOL Idra keeps losing to Foreigners even though he practices in Korea... No shit, but he also wins a lot more than he loses.
Because Idra lost game 2 on a misclick, he basically had to win 3 out of 4 games against an extremely strong Toss player, who did very abusive PvT builds in every game. He lost, props to Nony. Nony played intelligently and played to win like he should have.
I don't really understand the people saying Idra is bad? Hmm... I think you have missed the fact that Nony reacted to what Idra did in game 3,4 & 5. And yeah, it's real unfortunate that Idra canceled the CC in game 2 cause now Idra fanboys tries to take away Nony win with "If it wasn't for that miss-click..." even though Nony won in game 5 countering that exact greedy Barracks>CC opening. If Idra was so sure of being of out-macro Nony, then why did he try to cut corners? I'm really sick of posts in this thread trying to take away the wins from Players, that is in my mind BM... Even if you guys think "he would have won that if wasn't for X or Y" "He's a better overall player" etc... You don't know that! Keep thoughts like that for yourself until they are proven right. Um, I think you quoted the wrong person? I don't really see how what I said even applies to your response? My post was geared towards the idiots who say IdrA is a terrible person and should have a 100% win rate/Deflect every abusive build because he is in Korea. I'm not an IdrA fanboy. Nony is an amazing player that prepared some abusive builds for IdrA and performed well. How did I try take away anything from what NonY did? I said props to him winning and for playing smart! I think Idra tried to cut corners with the 1 rax FE because he wanted to have a build that would perform relatively well against 12 nexus, which is common for Protoss on FS.
Only in the SC world are builds that take advantage of your opponents weak spots or overconfidence "abusive".
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On February 15 2010 09:47 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:44 BlackYoshi wrote:On February 15 2010 09:22 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On February 15 2010 09:19 bEsT[Alive] wrote:
Today NonY was the better player. I've read statements to this effect a lot today, but let's be honest about the situation. Today Nony won. Today, idra canceled a CC. Would you like to make some excuses for Idra on why his Siege Expand got broken, or why he got absolutely steamrolled by a brilliant reactive proxy gate strategy in game 5? I made my statements. What you choose to extrapolate from them rather than simply take them as they are is your own problem. Nony won. Idra canceled a CC. These are simply facts about today's 3-2 victory. I have little rooting interest in either and with yesterday's matches done, these 2 are my favorite foreigners. I have no issue with Nony advancing or winning. I take issue with the amount people are willing to look at simply the results rather than the games.
We could look at the games 3 and 5, where Nony outplayed the hell out of idra. And really, game 4, his strategy was great and he probably would have won easily had he just got speedlots instead of DTs, but made a tactical error in attacking when he did.
And he was in good position game 2 because he saw the quick CC. In game 5, when he saw the same thing, he proxyed 3 gates and smashed Idra.
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I have to say that NonY's performance today was extremely impressive :o
Whenever he won it was so smooth :D
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On February 15 2010 10:50 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 10:45 Devolved wrote:
I think a lot of you give Idra too much credit. He's on and has always been on the Korean B-team for a reason. Most of the top foreigners (obviously everyone in the TSL semifinals) could stagnate on Korean B-team level, although I would imagine that some of them (Nony included) could work their way to the A-team if they spent as much time in Korea as Idra has. Nonys not THAT good rofl.
With the kind of strategy and mental game he executed, if he actually cared enough to practice as much as idra does (and with the same caliber of players Idra does), he'd probably be better than Idra. Instead he's fairly content with his life as is.
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On February 15 2010 09:14 kemoryan wrote:
Amazing, no ret no Idra and no white-ra... who would ever thought?
Nobody would have thought.. DAMN and it fucked up my 16 correct votes in a row liquibet. TT_TT
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On February 15 2010 11:25 BlackYoshi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 10:50 Saturnize wrote:On February 15 2010 10:45 Devolved wrote:
I think a lot of you give Idra too much credit. He's on and has always been on the Korean B-team for a reason. Most of the top foreigners (obviously everyone in the TSL semifinals) could stagnate on Korean B-team level, although I would imagine that some of them (Nony included) could work their way to the A-team if they spent as much time in Korea as Idra has. Nonys not THAT good rofl. With the kind of strategy and mental game he executed, if he actually cared enough to practice as much as idra does (and with the same caliber of players Idra does), he'd probably be better than Idra. Instead he's fairly content with his life as is.
I really like that applies to a lot of top foreigners
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I was cheering for Nony, but I finished the series with a much higher opinion of Idra too.
His build in game 1 was definitely not the cookie cutter macro build everyone expects from him. Nice work mixing things up.
And from what I saw he was very manner, even gg'ing the misclicked game 2. That's a sign of maturity, and also, indirectly, of confidence.
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Talent > Hard work. In both games. Nuff said.
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For the sake of our entertainment Nony vs Sen would be a great Final both are on their best matchup!
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Are there going to be interviews?
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Idra is training at CJ house. He shouldnt missclick. He did it, he deserve the loss.
And he gets outthinked always when playing against top foreigners. Nobody is telling he is a bad player, but there are a lot of foreigners better then him. I am glad that idra lost.
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On February 15 2010 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The funny thing is idiots will think this makes nony better
Aww did some Idra fan get his feelings hurt?
Or maybe lose a bet?
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well done nony, you played well
bad luck idra, dont let this break you, even the best of the best lose
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On February 15 2010 10:58 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 09:58 wonkman wrote:
I come online just missing the ro8 and i see the results and go wow nony won. Sweet! then i get in this thread expecting LOL IDRA GOT BEAT, OMG LOL WHY DID NONY WIN, OH WELL IDRA SUX! NONY BONJWA! Instead i see what happens in every favorite to win player vs another favorite to win player and its just a ragefestive trolling thread and this makes me wonder.
When did Idra get fanboys ? O.o
Other than that, wooo Nony! ive been the biggest idra fanboy on tl for a while. yo
Never knew that about ya arb ^.^ nice to know
sup
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EPT
