[SPL] Hwaseung Oz vs MBCGame HERO

[SPL] Hwaseung Oz vs MBCGame HERO - Page 15

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meeple

Canada10211 Posts

November 11 2009 21:46 GMT

#281

On November 12 2009 06:36 pripple wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yea that's the way Oz bench should be acting aswell when they win..
gotta love MBC:s teamspirit!

I really beleive more teams should have this spirit. Like when Ace was laughing about Daezangs 30-something kill reaver.

dukethegold

Canada5645 Posts

November 11 2009 21:53 GMT

#282

well...Jaedong failed...horribly...again...at ZvZ...

Sigh...why did I pick him over Flash for FPL captain.

But you know what, guys?

The chance is that the current jaedong owners will pick him again during the next round, because he will be hell cheap.

Also, I don't think that Oz deserves the "one man team" reputation that it is getting. The fact is, there is no way Jaedong alone could have carried Oz to 2nd place last season all by himself. Jaedong's scrub teammates performed very well. They were simply overshadowed by their superstar teammate.

]343[

United States10328 Posts

November 11 2009 22:07 GMT

#283

sigh jaedong

the other zergs are learning to ZvZ now

Chen

United States6344 Posts

November 11 2009 22:10 GMT

#284

On November 12 2009 06:42 SuperArc wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 12 2009 06:30 Chen wrote:

On November 11 2009 08:19 Ver wrote:

On November 11 2009 06:00 JWD wrote:

On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote:
They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.

I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...

BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:

(forgive the tooltips)

These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.

With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.

Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'

There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.

So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.

See here for more details on the 08-09 season:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=105202

You must be fucking joking. Best 29-13, although most of it was in the first 1/2, Fantasy 28-15. Both were in the top-10 in the entire league in terms of win differential. You cant bash 2 non-ace players performing that well. there is a reason why SKT1 won most of its games 3-1 or 3-0 and Bisu didnt get that many Ace appearances. Hell, thezerg (9-11) and Hyuk (7-10) performed almost as well as Oz's supporting cast.
As for KT, ForGG(14-10), Violet(12-6), and 815(9-4) did quite a bit better than any of Oz's non-JD players, Luxury just omfgwtf failed so badly that the team couldn't make up for it.

If SKT is so much better than Oz then why did they barely finish #1 before Oz? JD and Bisu have same amount of wins.

Bisu had far fewer ace match appearances. he also had a much higher win% than JD. and SKT1 did their lets send out Hyuk/Best for ace matches all of round one and went 4-7. JD carried oz to that 2nd place ranking, Over 1/3 of the team wins (non WL, where its probably more) come from him winning 2 of the three games. the supporting casts of the two teams cant be compared.

reincremate

China2210 Posts

November 12 2009 01:44 GMT

#285

I don't think there is a big enough sample of games to make any accurate statements about which players or teams are slumping or which teams are having issues with team morale or whatnot.

Khan being at 1-7 and KT being at 6-1 seem like fairly good indicators of how well those teams are doing this round, but Oz's record of 3-6 might very well be simply due to chance and/or the fact that Oz has been fielding Killer for ace matches. I'm not a fan or anti-fan of any team, so I'd like to think I'm free of bias when I say this.

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