I think it will either go 3-0 for OZ, if Lomo puts his act together and gets in some monster tvt. Otherwise, its all up to the ace and if Oz decides to put in JD or not. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Lomo in the ace if it goes to that.
I don't think I can bear to watch Killer lose another ace match, and he certainly won't be taking a game off Light on Match Point should it go to ace. Jaedong 2-0 please!
I actually find the colors on konadora's a bit hard to distinguish sometimes At least on the actual units. No offense against him or anything though, I do appreciate him for streaming.
Also lol Sea loves his delayed wraiths in TvT lately.
I don't understand how it's possible to be so outnumbered in a mirror match... That last battle wasn't even CLOSE, han came out of it with like 20 goons + reavers and templar while BH lost everything. Hate PvP.
On November 10 2009 19:19 Chen wrote: I guess this is why oz coach keeps spamming perfectman-killer lol. Lomo-Backho aint much better
Yeah. In response to people who said Coach Cho should be ditching Killer + Perfectman and trying to make something out of the Hiya/Backho/Lomo trio, I said that Backho/Hiya/Lomo are way too old to throw into pressure situations in an attempt to produce a diamond like Jaedong.
He's got to think about the future and Hiya/Lomo/Backho are so stereotypically mediocre that they are clearly not the future.
On November 10 2009 19:21 DustBowl wrote: I don't understand how it's possible to be so outnumbered in a mirror match... That last battle wasn't even CLOSE, han came out of it with like 20 goons + reavers and templar while BH lost everything. Hate PvP.
Backho had no Reavers, Backho had worse storms, Backho had worse army composition, Backho was behind on upgrades, Backho was down on econ and probably thus army due to storm drops. Plus Backho didnt have the best positioning during that final battle. add it all together you get a rape.
On November 10 2009 19:21 DustBowl wrote: I don't understand how it's possible to be so outnumbered in a mirror match... That last battle wasn't even CLOSE, han came out of it with like 20 goons + reavers and templar while BH lost everything. Hate PvP.
Backho had no Reavers, Backho had worse storms, Backho had worse army composition, Backho was behind on upgrades, Backho was down on econ and probably thus army due to storm drops. Plus Backho didnt have the best positioning during that final battle. add it all together you get a rape.
On November 10 2009 19:21 DustBowl wrote: I don't understand how it's possible to be so outnumbered in a mirror match... That last battle wasn't even CLOSE, han came out of it with like 20 goons + reavers and templar while BH lost everything. Hate PvP.
Backho had no Reavers, Backho had worse storms, Backho had worse army composition, Backho was behind on upgrades, Backho was down on econ and probably thus army due to storm drops. Plus Backho didnt have the best positioning during that final battle. add it all together you get a rape.
On November 10 2009 19:21 DustBowl wrote: I don't understand how it's possible to be so outnumbered in a mirror match... That last battle wasn't even CLOSE, han came out of it with like 20 goons + reavers and templar while BH lost everything. Hate PvP.
Backho had no Reavers, Backho had worse storms, Backho had worse army composition, Backho was behind on upgrades, Backho was down on econ and probably thus army due to storm drops. Plus Backho didnt have the best positioning during that final battle. add it all together you get a rape.
plus, backho, never even bothered harassing..... at all..... throughout the whole game.... He'd be further and further behind when the game lengthens
On November 10 2009 19:29 GTR wrote: i'm really, really confused with backho still.
it's like he starts so well then he fails so badly at the end.
anyone remember that game against bisu on medusa a few months ago? I SWORE HE HAD THE GAME WON but he blew it so badly.
Backho often has really awful army compositions and positioning. When big armies clash, he normally never wins because he has too much of this, too little of that, this unit shouldn't be there, and the unit that should be there is at the back doing nothing.
You can see the same in his recent game against Reach. He pretty much is inside Reach's base smashing crap apart, but forgets to bring more than one observer so he gets pushed back by Dark Templars. Then he has so many zealots that they just die to storms and archons.
He doesn't so much throw games away but seriously doesn't truly understand what he's exactly doing.
So is anyone else watching this Pokemon stuff? I've been watching this for like 5 minutes know and I feel so stupid... I can't figure it out either lol.
JD's play sucked today. The Jaedong of old wouldn't have lost that ling battle by such a wide margin. It's like he forgot to pay attention to Saint's lings WHICH WERE SITTING RIGHT OUTSIDE HIS BASE for a moment and then lost his whole army in that ling battle.
On November 10 2009 19:42 Zona wrote: Has JD been studied inside and out so much?
And wow MBC's bench sure is enthusiastic.
I think they seriously thought Saint was going to be a sacrificial lamb to be sacrificed to Jaedong. I don't think anyone, judging by how excited the crowd was, expected Saint to win by that huge of a margin.
On November 10 2009 19:44 Xstatic wrote: JD's play sucked today. The Jaedong of old wouldn't have lost that ling battle by such a wide margin. It's like he forgot to pay attention to Saint's lings WHICH WERE SITTING RIGHT OUTSIDE HIS BASE for a moment and then lost his whole army in that ling battle.
excuses excuses. well maybe you are right, jaedong's play sucks.
hey guys... just when I was doing great in fpl (#39 currently) and Im all excited coz jd is gonna bring me more points this happens. Jaedong on main tean, Saint on anti-team. FML.
On November 10 2009 19:46 ReketSomething wrote: I wish Oz was as happy as MBC when Jaedong wins a ling battle or something.
yeah. this "team" totally sucks. a bunch of (less than) mediocre players who could hide behind jd. and now that he faces a rough time, who is there to deliver results?
€: especially hiya is disappointing. i remember the winners league round where he got an all kill against.. uh dont remember. an everyone was like"omg lecaf/hwaseung now also has a t"
MBC looks like they have a lot of fun in Proleague, with their whole bench freaking out and jumping around when something good happens. Oz just looks dead inside.
On November 10 2009 20:13 Crucifix wrote: GG, this is the end of Jaedong
Saying that never gets old ;D
On November 10 2009 19:58 Hinanawi wrote: MBC looks like they have a lot of fun in Proleague, with their whole bench freaking out and jumping around when something good happens. Oz just looks dead inside.
Yeah, good on them that they're all enjoying themselves so much.
On November 10 2009 20:17 SkelA wrote: Think JD is geting his revenge on his team for not paying him enough so now he is playing mediocre for his price.
I would too if im best player in the world and worse ppl geting x2 than him !
Spoilers for other matches tonight and last night: + Show Spoiler +
1. Lost to BeSt 2. Lost to Saint 3. Lost to Justin 5. Lost to Luxury 6. Lost to Flash in the crucial ace 7. Lost to great 8. Lost to Kwanro 9. Lost to Violet
On November 10 2009 20:47 Hinanawi wrote: There seems to be a PR curse going around...
Spoilers for other matches tonight and last night: + Show Spoiler +
1. Lost to BeSt 2. Lost to Saint 3. Lost to Justin 5. Lost to Luxury 6. Lost to Flash in the crucial ace 7. Lost to great 8. Lost to Kwanro 9. Lost to Violet
No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how can you even believe that ?
jaedong vs saint was intresting game . saint played really well . jaedong lost against some mass lings timing , saint has 8 or 10 gling more thant JD . jaedong played risky as always and try to find the good timing for mutas/ling vs masslings . saint played really really good , jaedong is NOT slumping or something . dont forget this is zvz , a VERY hard match up , and some "lucky" match up sometimes . jaedong cant win 100% of his zvz , its IMPOSSIBLE . and its getting more and more impossible nowadays .
i never thought i can find someday someone who doubt about jaedong micro . this is LOL .
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how ca
Effort's and maybe even savior's ling micro are better or at least on par with JD's.
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how ca
Effort's and maybe even savior's ling micro are better or at least on par with JD's.
ok .. i think you can killyourself now . if effort and savior have better micro than jaedong in ANY units , im a son of bitch .
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how can you even believe that ?
jaedong vs saint was intresting game . saint played really well . jaedong lost against some mass lings timing , saint has 8 or 10 gling more thant JD . jaedong played risky as always and try to find the good timing for mutas/ling vs masslings . saint played really really good , jaedong is NOT slumping or something . dont forget this is zvz , a VERY hard match up , and some "lucky" match up sometimes . jaedong cant win 100% of his zvz , its IMPOSSIBLE . and its getting more and more impossible nowadays .
i never thought i can find someday someone who doubt about jaedong micro . this is LOL .
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how ca
Effort's and maybe even savior's ling micro are better or at least on par with JD's.
ok .. i think you can killyourself now . if effort and savior have better micro than jaedong in ANY units , im a son of bitch .
This thread shouldn't be about Jaedong. If anyone else on Hwaseung could win, we wouldn't even notice that JD was dropping games here and there. Fact is that the rest of Oz's lineup has been so pathetic this year that every Jaedong loss is catastrophic.
Only 4 players have more wins than Jaedong this season, and at 6-4 he's still 12th in the league in win differential. The guy has produced almost as well as other teams' aces. The difference between Hwaseung and the rest of the league is not JD sucking, it's the rest of their lineup.
PerfectMan and BackHo 1-7? Oz is fighting from an 0-1 hole in every match because they have no Protoss player. And let's not even talk about how awful killer has been—Coach Cho is stupid for relying on him so much. You can't make another Jaedong just by taking a Zerg and playing him in ace games.
Actually I am enjoying watching Hwaseung self-destruct this season because it's about time they paid the price for only relying on and only developing Jaedong for almost two seasons of PL. I mean, for nearly all of the 08-09 PL season Hwaseung's strategy was to play JD, BackHo, Lomo, and HiyA in almost every match, and hope to get to the ace game (as kona pointed out below). We didn't even know more than four players on their team (ggaemo, killer, PerfectMan only saw play towards the very end of the season)!
Smarter coaches on smarter teams recognize that a healthy PL team means giving other players a shot at the big stage (lineup appearances, ace games) every once in a while so that when their star does start to tire, they can still make a respectable showing. Oz's coach is desperately trying to turn killer into another ace option overnight, but BW just doesn't work that way.
I didn't see the game but it sounds like JD lost the way I've been losing a lot of ZvZ recently - you try to get mutas but the other guy wins by 4sz5sz6sz1a2a3a before the mutas come out. In this case it's not really a micro issue at all - I think it's pretty much accepted that JD has the best ling micro.
kind of funny how only jaedong and hiya have more wins than losses
the entire oz lineup is really really pathetic.
At least in 08-09, Lomo, BackHo or HiyA, either of those 3 would always at least win a game, Jaedong would win one, and Jaedong will eventually win the ace match.
But now that none of those 3 are winning games, and Jaedong looking shaky recently... It's really impossible for Oz to win.
On November 10 2009 22:48 JWD wrote: Actually I am enjoying watching Hwaseung self-destruct this season because it's about time they paid the price for only relying on and only developing Jaedong for almost two seasons of PL. Smarter coaches on smarter teams recognize that a healthy PL team means giving other players a shot at the big stage (lineup appearances, ace games) every once in a while so that when their star does start to tire, they can still make a respectable showing. Oz's coach is desperately trying to turn killer into another ace option overnight, but BW just doesn't work that way.
JD is having issues. When Saint initiated the ling battle it took JD a whole second before he let his own lings fight back. It was kinda funny actually, his lings were on hold and only a single one was pecking against like 10 of Saint's lings. When he did decide to engage half of his lings were grossly out of position and had to go around his own hatchery. Sigh.
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how can you even believe that ?
jaedong vs saint was intresting game . saint played really well . jaedong lost against some mass lings timing , saint has 8 or 10 gling more thant JD . jaedong played risky as always and try to find the good timing for mutas/ling vs masslings . saint played really really good , jaedong is NOT slumping or something . dont forget this is zvz , a VERY hard match up , and some "lucky" match up sometimes . jaedong cant win 100% of his zvz , its IMPOSSIBLE . and its getting more and more impossible nowadays .
i never thought i can find someday someone who doubt about jaedong micro . this is LOL .
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how ca
Effort's and maybe even savior's ling micro are better or at least on par with JD's.
ok .. i think you can killyourself now . if effort and savior have better micro than jaedong in ANY units , im a son of bitch .
relax kid.
every time a top-tier player loses, people jump on the "aha! i was right this whole time" bandwagon and cite the loss as indicative somehow of a longstanding problem with their matchup. i hardly think that one game can be the end-all-be-all in starcraft skill evaluation seeing as how complex a game it can be.
saint played pretty well. who's to say that the jaedong of old would have stopped him for sure? maybe if this happened months back when jvz was still a meme on TL, saint would still have won. upsets happen so stop using them as a justification of fatal errors in play.
On November 10 2009 22:48 JWD wrote: This thread shouldn't be about Jaedong. If anyone else on Hwaseung could win, we wouldn't even notice that JD was dropping games here and there. Fact is that the rest of Oz's lineup has been so pathetic this year that every Jaedong loss is catastrophic.
Only 4 players have more wins than Jaedong this season, and at 6-4 he's still 12th in the league in win differential. The guy has produced almost as well as other teams' aces. The difference between Hwaseung and the rest of the league is not JD sucking, it's the rest of their lineup.
PerfectMan and BackHo 1-7? Oz is fighting from an 0-1 hole in every match because they have no Protoss player. And let's not even talk about how awful killer has been—Coach Cho is stupid for relying on him so much. You can't make another Jaedong just by taking a Zerg and playing him in ace games.
Actually I am enjoying watching Hwaseung self-destruct this season because it's about time they paid the price for only relying on and only developing Jaedong for almost two seasons of PL. I mean, for nearly all of the 08-09 PL season Hwaseung's strategy was to play JD, BackHo, Lomo, and HiyA in almost every match, and hope to get to the ace game (as kona pointed out below). We didn't even know more than four players on their team (ggaemo, killer, PerfectMan only saw play towards the very end of the season)!
Smarter coaches on smarter teams recognize that a healthy PL team means giving other players a shot at the big stage (lineup appearances, ace games) every once in a while so that when their star does start to tire, they can still make a respectable showing. Oz's coach is desperately trying to turn killer into another ace option overnight, but BW just doesn't work that way.
Thank you. I was starting to believe I was alone in all this.
On November 10 2009 23:19 Necosarius wrote: Why did I pick Jaedong over Flash in FPL? ._.
Because at the time it was the most logical choice. JD was coming from a season where he seemed almost undestructible, and at the same prize you had 2 S-Class players only one of them was literally on fire.
Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
On November 11 2009 00:15 raga4ka wrote: Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
Unknown reason? It's Z vs Z, What's really unknown is how he even managed to dominate Z v Z for a while.
On November 11 2009 00:15 raga4ka wrote: Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
Unknown reason? It's Z vs Z, What's really unknown is how he even managed to dominate Z v Z for a while.
Exactly. What was anomalous was JD winning 80% in this matchup. Other Zergs rising to his level in ZvZ is a return to normalcy.
Ironically, it was JD himself who made apparent that today's level of ZvZ play was possible—in a way inviting other Zergs to focus on the matchup more and eventually (indirectly) restoring parity.
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how ca
Effort's and maybe even savior's ling micro are better or at least on par with JD's.
ok .. i think you can killyourself now . if effort and savior have better micro than jaedong in ANY units , im a son of bitch .
Seriously dude? Not again man, not again.
I'm not so sure about sAviOr, but looking at recent games and performances it is more than plausible to suggest that EffOrt has ling micro equal to Jaedong's. Dismissing this argument is such a blunt and unsubstantiated way is unhelpful, it's impossible to really say whose ling micro is better, so we make subjective judgments based on their performances.
On November 11 2009 00:15 raga4ka wrote: Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
Unknown reason? It's Z vs Z, What's really unknown is how he even managed to dominate Z v Z for a while.
Ironically, it was JD himself who made apparent that today's level of ZvZ play was possible—in a way inviting other Zergs to focus on the matchup more and eventually (indirectly) restoring parity.
On November 11 2009 00:25 JWD wrote: I'm getting pretty tired of the same old "Flash is really good, he just loses all of his games" line.
Wow, by being 4-6 in his past 10 ZvZs JD has actually been saving star craft as we know it. Good to know.
There's most of the top Zergs. JD is not sucking or slumping, it's just that the other Zergs have raised their level to his (and JD won 6 straight ZvZs prior to the last 10 anyway). JD couldn't stay far ahead of everyone else forever. As you can see NOBODY is dominating ZvZ now (well Hyuk is on a 7 game win streak so maybe Hyuk is next ZvZ bonjwa lol).
On November 11 2009 00:15 raga4ka wrote: Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
Unknown reason? It's Z vs Z, What's really unknown is how he even managed to dominate Z v Z for a while.
Ironically, it was JD himself who made apparent that today's level of ZvZ play was possible—in a way inviting other Zergs to focus on the matchup more and eventually (indirectly) restoring parity.
I am a huge JD fan, and I don't think he's slumping at all. I will just never forgive JWD for dropping Flash from the PR.
I don't see how those two quotes are in conflict whatsoever. I was not making a statement about JD's recent performance (but I was about Flash's). And besides, JD has had a bad month coming off of an OSL Championship, while at the time when I wrote that about Flash he had just finished dropping out of the OSL and MSL before the semis for a fourth? consecutive season.
Also are you really trying to get into an argument over JD's impact on ZvZ? Really?
On November 10 2009 22:48 JWD wrote: This thread shouldn't be about Jaedong. If anyone else on Hwaseung could win, we wouldn't even notice that JD was dropping games here and there. Fact is that the rest of Oz's lineup has been so pathetic this year that every Jaedong loss is catastrophic.
Only 4 players have more wins than Jaedong this season, and at 6-4 he's still 12th in the league in win differential. The guy has produced almost as well as other teams' aces. The difference between Hwaseung and the rest of the league is not JD sucking, it's the rest of their lineup.
PerfectMan and BackHo 1-7? Oz is fighting from an 0-1 hole in every match because they have no Protoss player. And let's not even talk about how awful killer has been—Coach Cho is stupid for relying on him so much. You can't make another Jaedong just by taking a Zerg and playing him in ace games.
Actually I am enjoying watching Hwaseung self-destruct this season because it's about time they paid the price for only relying on and only developing Jaedong for almost two seasons of PL. I mean, for nearly all of the 08-09 PL season Hwaseung's strategy was to play JD, BackHo, Lomo, and HiyA in almost every match, and hope to get to the ace game (as kona pointed out below). We didn't even know more than four players on their team (ggaemo, killer, PerfectMan only saw play towards the very end of the season)!
Smarter coaches on smarter teams recognize that a healthy PL team means giving other players a shot at the big stage (lineup appearances, ace games) every once in a while so that when their star does start to tire, they can still make a respectable showing. Oz's coach is desperately trying to turn killer into another ace option overnight, but BW just doesn't work that way.
Thank you. I was starting to believe I was alone in all this.
This post makes up for watching some of retarded JD posts. (Specifically, that son of a bitch.)
On November 11 2009 00:54 lone_hydra wrote: If JD does not improve, there is no way he should be in the top 3 in this month's PR considering there are people winning a lot more games than him.
On November 11 2009 00:15 raga4ka wrote: Well JD doesn't have invincible ZvZ anymore , seems like he plays 1 good game ( againts great) and then 1 inferior game against Saint . It's tough say where his level of ZvZ is right now with no other good zergs actually dominating in this MU right now . He's just become more inconsistent in this MU like all other top zergs have for some unknown reason .....
Unknown reason? It's Z vs Z, What's really unknown is how he even managed to dominate Z v Z for a while.
Ironically, it was JD himself who made apparent that today's level of ZvZ play was possible—in a way inviting other Zergs to focus on the matchup more and eventually (indirectly) restoring parity.
On November 11 2009 00:25 JWD wrote: I'm getting pretty tired of the same old "Flash is really good, he just loses all of his games" line.
Wow, by being 4-6 in his past 10 ZvZs JD has actually been saving star craft as we know it. Good to know.
I am a huge JD fan, and I don't think he's slumping at all. I will just never forgive JWD for dropping Flash from the PR.
I don't see how those two quotes are in conflict whatsoever. I was not making a statement about JD's recent performance (but I was about Flash's). And besides, JD has had a bad month coming off of an OSL Championship, while at the time when I wrote that about Flash he had just finished dropping out of the OSL and MSL before the semis for a fourth? consecutive season.
Also are you really trying to get into an argument over JD's impact on ZvZ? Really?
I'm just juxtaposing two points of view:
I'm getting pretty tired of the same old "Flash is really good, he just loses all of his games" line. vs Jaedong's losing is just a symptom of how awesome he is.
On November 10 2009 22:25 Musoeun wrote: No one's going to believe me if I say I always have said JD's ling micro is the most vulnerable part of his game... but it's true. Dating back at least to WL playoffs when he got out-linged by HoeJJa and ...somebody else the next match. Though he won those games, due to HoeJJa's decision making sucking and just playing better against the other guy.
(Doesn't necessarily make me right, either - but this game makes me feel vindicated.)
you're right , no one's going to believe you . because you are saying really pathetic shit .
jaedong has the best ling micro in the world , and from far . how can you even believe that ?
jaedong vs saint was intresting game . saint played really well . jaedong lost against some mass lings timing , saint has 8 or 10 gling more thant JD . jaedong played risky as always and try to find the good timing for mutas/ling vs masslings . saint played really really good , jaedong is NOT slumping or something . dont forget this is zvz , a VERY hard match up , and some "lucky" match up sometimes . jaedong cant win 100% of his zvz , its IMPOSSIBLE . and its getting more and more impossible nowadays .
i never thought i can find someday someone who doubt about jaedong micro . this is LOL .
Jaedong played a little sloppy but Saint is not even close to the worse player Jaedong has lost to in recent times. You freak out less about Jaedong 'slumping' when he loses to Orion but go overboard when he loses to a guy that has in the past totally crushed big names?
Talk all you want about JD slumping or what not - My opinion is simply that Coach Cho has been doing a very bad job at running a team that was fine just a couple of months ago. They went through a crushing final against SKT, huge Jaedong drama, and apparently something changed at Hwaseung house. Now everything seems to be going downhill...
They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
On November 11 2009 01:54 vaMpYr wrote: jaedong lost a game , everyone on TL are like little childs .
when bisu lost vs a foreigner ( LOL ) when effort lost vs a foreiger ( RE RE LOL )
why we dont talk about bisu or effort slump ?
Bisu and Effort lost in IEF. they both pretty much admitted to not caring at all and not practicing for those matches because they DIDNT MATTER. Jaedong is dropping games disturbingly often in proleague, which should be his ONLY focus at this point since he doesnt play an individual league game in quite some time.
On November 11 2009 01:54 vaMpYr wrote: jaedong lost a game , everyone on TL are like little childs .
when bisu lost vs a foreigner ( LOL ) when effort lost vs a foreiger ( RE RE LOL )
why we dont talk about bisu or effort slump ?
Bisu and Effort lost in IEF. they both pretty much admitted to not caring at all and not practicing for those matches because they DIDNT MATTER. Jaedong is dropping games disturbingly often in proleague, which should be his ONLY focus at this point since he doesnt play an individual league game in quite some time.
agreed. For a looong time Jaedong's ZvZ has been his marquee matchup. (well.. next to his ZvT) Having statistically the best ZvZ in the world as well as a crazy rec vs zerg it is a little worrying when he starts dropping games to 815, Hyuk, Orion, and.. Saint..
Just me but Jaedong's play as of late has been a little sub - Jaedongesque Even that last ACE match win vs Miracle was a little sloppy imo
On November 11 2009 01:54 vaMpYr wrote: jaedong lost a game , everyone on TL are like little childs .
when bisu lost vs a foreigner ( LOL ) when effort lost vs a foreiger ( RE RE LOL )
why we dont talk about bisu or effort slump ?
Bisu and Effort lost in IEF. they both pretty much admitted to not caring at all and not practicing for those matches because they DIDNT MATTER. Jaedong is dropping games disturbingly often in proleague, which should be his ONLY focus at this point since he doesnt play an individual league game in quite some time.
agreed. For a looong time Jaedong's ZvZ has been his marquee matchup. (well.. next to his ZvT) Having statistically the best ZvZ in the world as well as a crazy rec vs zerg it is a little worrying when he starts dropping games to 815, Hyuk, Orion, and.. Saint..
Just me but Jaedong's play as of late has been a little sub - Jaedongesque Even that last ACE match win vs Miracle was a little sloppy imo
sloppy...? JD raped, harassed and expoed against a successful 14cc terran.
A game cant be more dominating than JD vs Miracle.
Oz as a whole is really disappointing lately, and JD is obviously not in top form. Maybe not necessarily a total slump, but he has definitely fallen back to earth a bit.
I think that Jaedong has been the "bonjwa" of ZvZ for a while now, and like true bonjwas before him (Boxer, Nada, oov, Savior), his dominance has elevated the level of play of his contemporaries (in this case, other player's ZvZ). Jaedong has become a victim of the very matchup he revolutionized, as other Zergs have finally caught up to the micro and methods of engagement that for the longest time only Jaedong enjoyed.
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
what worries me most is what Plexatide wrote in the recent Backseat Broodwar, watching all the teams being happy when one of their players win and watching Oz guys being totally dead even if they win, something is very wrong at the hwaseung house ;<
On November 11 2009 06:39 pripple wrote: what worries me most is what Plexatide wrote in the recent Backseat Broodwar, watching all the teams being happy when one of their players win and watching Oz guys being totally dead even if they win, something is very wrong at the hwaseung house ;<
Yeah, I just rewatched JD vs Miracle, Oz sure didnt look like a team who has just won an important match.
Wow, Jaedong lost to Saint... This only makes his prior dominance of the MU even more astounding, to think that Jaedong could dominate a mu where a player like Jaedong could lose to Saint is the most impressive feat in the history of starcraft. <3 LJD
On November 11 2009 07:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Wow, Jaedong lost to Saint... This only makes his prior dominance of the MU even more astounding, to think that Jaedong could dominate a mu where a player like Jaedong could lose to Saint is the most impressive feat in the history of starcraft. <3 LJD
Wow. This is just embarrassing man. Even in defeat the fanboyism doesn't go away.
On November 11 2009 07:16 n.DieJokes wrote: Wow, Jaedong lost to Saint... This only makes his prior dominance of the MU even more astounding, to think that Jaedong could dominate a mu where a player like Jaedong could lose to Saint is the most impressive feat in the history of starcraft. <3 LJD
Wow. This is just embarrassing man. Even in defeat the fanboyism doesn't go away.
Its the difference between a fanboy and a true fan
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.
So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.
On November 11 2009 06:39 pripple wrote: what worries me most is what Plexatide wrote in the recent Backseat Broodwar, watching all the teams being happy when one of their players win and watching Oz guys being totally dead even if they win, something is very wrong at the hwaseung house ;<
Yeah, I just rewatched JD vs Miracle, Oz sure didnt look like a team who has just won an important match.
well what do u expect? they all fail, miserably. killer as ace, the rest of the team in their own games. i still don't understand why coach cho tried to create another jd with killer. imho the only other option hwaseung has is hiya or maybe lomo(lol). they should play ace matches from time to time. whats the point in getting another strong zerg if u have the best zerg in the world, no matter if he is playing at 100% or not.
i still dont get it how JD could be the best starcraft player in the world when having practice partners like this... ah well, on the other hand bisus pvz or storks/jangbis pvt are also quite good t.t
On November 11 2009 06:39 pripple wrote: what worries me most is what Plexatide wrote in the recent Backseat Broodwar, watching all the teams being happy when one of their players win and watching Oz guys being totally dead even if they win, something is very wrong at the hwaseung house ;<
Yeah, I just rewatched JD vs Miracle, Oz sure didnt look like a team who has just won an important match.
well what do u expect? they all fail, miserably. killer as ace, the rest of the team in their own games. i still don't understand why coach cho tried to create another jd with killer. imho the only other option hwaseung has is hiya or maybe lomo(lol). they should play ace matches from time to time. whats the point in getting another strong zerg if u have the best zerg in the world, no matter if he is playing at 100% or not.
i still dont get it how JD could be the best starcraft player in the world when having practice partners like this... ah well, on the other hand bisus pvz or storks/jangbis pvt are also quite good t.t
well Bisu used to have July as practice partner, but his PvZ dropped a lot since July left :o His PvP (Best) improved greatly.
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
ofc u can ignore the winners league, rofl just look at the stats man, hiya with 17-9 was the only one to score wins besides jd
€:
On November 11 2009 08:27 SuperArc wrote:
well Bisu used to have July as practice partner, but his PvZ dropped a lot since July left :o His PvP (Best) improved greatly.
hm, nice one, ty. i dont know much about bisus time at MBC
On November 11 2009 06:39 pripple wrote: what worries me most is what Plexatide wrote in the recent Backseat Broodwar, watching all the teams being happy when one of their players win and watching Oz guys being totally dead even if they win, something is very wrong at the hwaseung house ;<
Yeah, I just rewatched JD vs Miracle, Oz sure didnt look like a team who has just won an important match.
well what do u expect? they all fail, miserably. killer as ace, the rest of the team in their own games. i still don't understand why coach cho tried to create another jd with killer. imho the only other option hwaseung has is hiya or maybe lomo(lol). they should play ace matches from time to time. whats the point in getting another strong zerg if u have the best zerg in the world, no matter if he is playing at 100% or not.
i still dont get it how JD could be the best starcraft player in the world when having practice partners like this... ah well, on the other hand bisus pvz or storks/jangbis pvt are also quite good t.t
well Bisu used to have July as practice partner, but his PvZ dropped a lot since July left :o His PvP (Best) improved greatly.
Well thats a simplistic way of looking at things, because Hyuk is supposedly a beast in practice and so bisu probably gets good practice still. And look at Kal, he was top 3 pvz for a long time, and he still has july, calm, hero, etc on his team...yet these days his pvz is not so strong. I dont think its a complete issue of practice partners but matchup trends and adaptabilty as well.
i still dont get it how JD could be the best starcraft player in the world when having practice partners like this... ah well, on the other hand bisus pvz or storks/jangbis pvt are also quite good t.t
One method of practicing many progamers use, at least according to Boxer's autobiography, is playing vs 2 opponents with shared base.
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.
So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.
Ver speaks the truth, you all act like Oz is the only team that relies heavily on superstars, and then dont count the teams that pretty much lose as much, except they DONT have a superstar to carry the slack (ACE, Woongjin, eSTRO, MBC?)
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.
So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.
You must be fucking joking. Best 29-13, although most of it was in the first 1/2, Fantasy 28-15. Both were in the top-10 in the entire league in terms of win differential. You cant bash 2 non-ace players performing that well. there is a reason why SKT1 won most of its games 3-1 or 3-0 and Bisu didnt get that many Ace appearances. Hell, thezerg (9-11) and Hyuk (7-10) performed almost as well as Oz's supporting cast. As for KT, ForGG(14-10), Violet(12-6), and 815(9-4) did quite a bit better than any of Oz's non-JD players, Luxury just omfgwtf failed so badly that the team couldn't make up for it.
On November 12 2009 06:09 meeple wrote: Just watched the vods of this match... MBC was so happy to win vs JD they were literally jumping for joy when scourge hit.
Yea that's the way Oz bench should be acting aswell when they win.. gotta love MBC:s teamspirit!
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.
So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.
You must be fucking joking. Best 29-13, although most of it was in the first 1/2, Fantasy 28-15. Both were in the top-10 in the entire league in terms of win differential. You cant bash 2 non-ace players performing that well. there is a reason why SKT1 won most of its games 3-1 or 3-0 and Bisu didnt get that many Ace appearances. Hell, thezerg (9-11) and Hyuk (7-10) performed almost as well as Oz's supporting cast. As for KT, ForGG(14-10), Violet(12-6), and 815(9-4) did quite a bit better than any of Oz's non-JD players, Luxury just omfgwtf failed so badly that the team couldn't make up for it.
If SKT is so much better than Oz then why did they barely finish #1 before Oz? JD and Bisu have same amount of wins.
On November 12 2009 06:09 meeple wrote: Just watched the vods of this match... MBC was so happy to win vs JD they were literally jumping for joy when scourge hit.
Yea that's the way Oz bench should be acting aswell when they win.. gotta love MBC:s teamspirit!
I really beleive more teams should have this spirit. Like when Ace was laughing about Daezangs 30-something kill reaver.
Sigh...why did I pick him over Flash for FPL captain.
But you know what, guys?
The chance is that the current jaedong owners will pick him again during the next round, because he will be hell cheap.
Also, I don't think that Oz deserves the "one man team" reputation that it is getting. The fact is, there is no way Jaedong alone could have carried Oz to 2nd place last season all by himself. Jaedong's scrub teammates performed very well. They were simply overshadowed by their superstar teammate.
On November 11 2009 04:30 zazen wrote: They looked god damn strong last season. But look at their players now. Hiya, BackHo and Lomo are currently underperforming. The second most active player, with 9 games played (while JD has 10 games played) and most used ace player, Killer, have always been, and will always be, very bad. I'm not even going to start on PerfectMan and ggaemo.
I'm not a huge fan of MBC (of course, except Sea, who is a true baller) and I'm sad to see things going really wrong for Oz...
BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo are underperforming no doubt, but not nearly as much as your post seems to suggest. Fact is that BackHo, HiyA and Lomo, despite appearing in the vast majority of Oz's matches last season, were never great performers. In fact, not one of them had a winning record in the 08-09 PL:
(forgive the tooltips)
These numbers tell the story of Oz's 08-09 season: BackHo, HiyA, and Lomo did just well enough to allow Oz to take matches to their 5sets, where Jaedong would take control. Nobody else made any impact (the concentration of appearances amongst these 4 players is just shocking). And, because Jaedong had an absurd winrate, Oz did well enough to snag a playoff seed.
With this understanding of Oz's 08-09 season, it's easy to see why anything short of godliness from JD would doom them to failure: they don't have any other players who can win consistently, and they didn't develop any new talent last season.
Absolutely not. You can't just ignore winners league and say 'these numbers tell the story.'
There are a fair number of teams that relied on their ace player more than Oz did Jaedong last season. Flash, Light, Bisu, and Leta. Fact is if Oz was just team Jaedong, they would've been below KT at 8th place, because KT was literally Korea Telecom Flash, and Flash did better than Jaedong (9/5 vs 6/4 in Ace and +2 net overall). But instead Oz finished 2nd. That shows that their support was very strong, one of the strongest in the league in fact. They had to be to do that well because Jaedong was not a particularly consistent Ace match player. So strong actually, that they did better than SKT1 sans Bisu. Before bashing Oz's non-ace players for last season, start with KT's and SKT1's please. Or frankly, every team but STX, and CJ.
So yes, they did do quite well last season and aren't doing acceptable at all now, Jaedong included. Oz has been in the top 2 since 2007. They've done a fantastic job for 2 1/2 years, it's not unreasonable to see that they finally can't maintain it after an extraordinarily length of time.
You must be fucking joking. Best 29-13, although most of it was in the first 1/2, Fantasy 28-15. Both were in the top-10 in the entire league in terms of win differential. You cant bash 2 non-ace players performing that well. there is a reason why SKT1 won most of its games 3-1 or 3-0 and Bisu didnt get that many Ace appearances. Hell, thezerg (9-11) and Hyuk (7-10) performed almost as well as Oz's supporting cast. As for KT, ForGG(14-10), Violet(12-6), and 815(9-4) did quite a bit better than any of Oz's non-JD players, Luxury just omfgwtf failed so badly that the team couldn't make up for it.
If SKT is so much better than Oz then why did they barely finish #1 before Oz? JD and Bisu have same amount of wins.
Bisu had far fewer ace match appearances. he also had a much higher win% than JD. and SKT1 did their lets send out Hyuk/Best for ace matches all of round one and went 4-7. JD carried oz to that 2nd place ranking, Over 1/3 of the team wins (non WL, where its probably more) come from him winning 2 of the three games. the supporting casts of the two teams cant be compared.
I don't think there is a big enough sample of games to make any accurate statements about which players or teams are slumping or which teams are having issues with team morale or whatnot.
Khan being at 1-7 and KT being at 6-1 seem like fairly good indicators of how well those teams are doing this round, but Oz's record of 3-6 might very well be simply due to chance and/or the fact that Oz has been fielding Killer for ace matches. I'm not a fan or anti-fan of any team, so I'd like to think I'm free of bias when I say this.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/Proleague0910.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/4.jpg)
Lomo < Moon Glaive > 
BackHo < Fighting Spirit > 
Jaedong < Outsider SE > 
At least on the actual units. No offense against him or anything though, I do appreciate him for streaming.
![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3382/backho.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dailybail.com/storage/_Tyrone20Biggums.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3536/11383536.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/JWD/misc/ozsucks.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/JWD/misc/ozsucks2.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/JWD/misc/ozsucks3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://20.media.tumblr.com/MiUnslbAqptibc5gdsKsA5tso1_400.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4025/83208071.jpg)
