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[Day9 Cast] Nostalgia Tournament! - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51550 Posts
November 02 2009 08:26 GMT
#41
i wish livestream would let on-demand upload faster, i missed the games =[
Commentator
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
November 02 2009 08:54 GMT
#42
same here :/
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
November 02 2009 08:58 GMT
#43
On November 02 2009 16:13 myrmidon2537 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2009 14:26 Kimaker wrote:
Hey Day, would you ever do a show match vs. Tastelss for us all to watch? You know, get a bit of old testament biblical fratricide going on. ^_^


I like this idea =) TL make it happen!!!

machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
November 02 2009 11:18 GMT
#44
Day, you are great and your casts are superb, but I did feel that your critique of Idra was off base (the nostalgia game): Idra had a lot of minerals but only around 200 gas, so it wasn't like he could use the excess minerals on factories -- 2 at the most, and given that Idra had 3 shops, the priority there was to make sure he could pump 3 tanks, continuously. On nostalgia, being able to amass as many tanks as you can is even more important than on other maps (harder to come by) -- hence the "ninja" expo.

You do a great job! It just seemed like you might have forgotten that factories take gas to build, or you haven't played much tvp on nostalgia Anyways, keep up the good work!
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
November 02 2009 11:50 GMT
#45
i was not off base at all i'm dead on the money always

don't let your money get high

spend that damn money
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
November 02 2009 11:52 GMT
#46
When are vods coming ?
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:00:27
November 02 2009 12:00 GMT
#47
On November 02 2009 20:18 machinehead.. wrote:
Day, you are great and your casts are superb, but I did feel that your critique of Idra was off base (the nostalgia game): Idra had a lot of minerals but only around 200 gas, so it wasn't like he could use the excess minerals on factories -- 2 at the most, and given that Idra had 3 shops, the priority there was to make sure he could pump 3 tanks, continuously. On nostalgia, being able to amass as many tanks as you can is even more important than on other maps (harder to come by) -- hence the "ninja" expo.

You do a great job! It just seemed like you might have forgotten that factories take gas to build, or you haven't played much tvp on nostalgia Anyways, keep up the good work!


i mean seriously, explain to me VERY clearly with LOTS of detail why on EARTH we aren't cutting 2 tanks in order to add 2 more factories. or, explain to me VERY clearly with LOTS of detail why we aren't spending that money on anything else non factory related?

moreover, look at the huge underlying issue in your logic. you say


Idra had alot of minerals but only around 200 gas.


What good gameplan revolves around having tons of minerals lying around? Most players tend to hit Idra's situation and say "wow i have all this money! I guess its ok because I feel like i'm winning and i feel low on gas." The CORRECT logic is to go "how can i plan on spending this huge excess of minerals in the first place?" Idra cleverly took the expo to help boost his gas (and we clearly saw him take advantage of this). But Idra did NOT seem to have a plan on what to do with all those extra minerals and he should have. Money sitting around in the bank is undeniably completely bad and should always be weeded out.

My analysis of this situation is "Idra likely doesn't play on Nostalgia ever and rarely plays on Min only natural maps, so when he winged it he still did a great job and almost certainly noted how many minerals he had doing nothing."

It just seemed like you might have forgotten that factories take gas to build, or you haven't played much tvp on nostalgia


and that seems quite a bit snarky
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:02:28
November 02 2009 12:01 GMT
#48
I guess Idra could have spent a lot of money on turrets to stop a recall that wasn't possible... Ideally you eventually have enough gas expos so that your gas count catches up to your minerals and then you make those factories. You really don't want to get maxed in tvp with 80% vultures... There wasn't going to be anything positive about having a few more vultures...
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:14:12
November 02 2009 12:03 GMT
#49
And that same logic of "but he was low on gas" is what prevented terran's from playing modern TvP forever. Way back when Nostalgia ORIGINALLY came out, terran players actually had difficulty keeping GAS low on TvP. Terrans realized that vultures were key to aggressive pushes and stuck with tons of non-addon factories for quite a long time. When people would ask why the gas got so high, terrans responded very similarly to how you did: "well they are low on minerals so they can't really spend the gas, so its ok!"

I'm making a HUGE emphasis on this point because, for some weird reason, in the last 4 weeks, I've spoken to TONS of people who KEEP trying to justify money in the bank. Just SPEND it for crying out loud. If ANY of you start to feel comfortable w/ a ton of money, stop and think about the justification behind it. You'll soon see some gaping holes that are likely preventing you from improving
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
November 02 2009 12:03 GMT
#50
omg spoiler day 9 ;D. Missed the games, looking forward to watch the games in on-demand mode . You are doing a great job overal!
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:05:21
November 02 2009 12:04 GMT
#51
On November 02 2009 21:01 machinehead.. wrote:
I guess Idra could have spent a lot of money on turrets to stop a recall that wasn't possible... Ideally you eventually have enough gas expos so that your gas count catches up to your minerals and then you make those factories. You really don't want to get maxed in tvp with 80% vultures... There wasn't going to be anything positive about having a few more vultures...


See, you're saying "you don't want to get maxed with so many vultures."

But, if you are SPENDING all that money BEFORE you get maxed, you can be MUCH more aggressive and still have the same tank count. Again, having proper planning allows for spending of the money
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:18:10
November 02 2009 12:15 GMT
#52
I'm not sure if you are being serious. If you are though, I'm surprised by your simplistic and short-term approach. In general your advice is correct, but on nostalgia it is almost impossible to avoid the money ratio that Idra had. It's simply a characteristic of playing on that map. What it boils down to is money not wasted on static D, when you don't need it, is going to be money you can devote to units in the later stages of the game, which is obviously more important. Idra does not play an aggressive game; when he maxes he is going to want to have as many tanks in his army as possible, to simply run over his opponent with that 1 big attack. A maxed Terran army that doesn't have an appropriate tank count is simply too vulnerable. Idra did the right thing, even if it looked "bad/wrong."
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
November 02 2009 12:21 GMT
#53
you don't understand dude, i have a tv show
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 12:25:45
November 02 2009 12:21 GMT
#54
If your game plan was to make as many factories as you could, simply for the sake of spending all your minerals, if you were to lose any tanks at all, you would be on the brink of losing at any second.

p.s. I love the tv show
Ao_Jun
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Denmark396 Posts
November 02 2009 12:37 GMT
#55
On November 02 2009 21:21 Day[9] wrote:
you don't understand dude, i have a tv show


HAHAHAHA
This owned me, i think i'm getting fired!

Man, it was worth it! :D
you are one of the least benigtedly unintelligent organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting.
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
November 02 2009 12:42 GMT
#56
it's an interesting topic of discussion, but i desperately have to goto sleep. in fact, as i've said, SOOO many people seem to create justifications around not spending money. to appropriately address the issue, i'll have to do a PODCAST!!! look for it in the future ^_^
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
November 02 2009 12:56 GMT
#57
The only time I would make a justification for not spending money is on nostalgia (tvt has the same scenario, but I don't play it, so I don't have thoughts on it). It really is the exception to the "rule." If you want to spend your money on nostalgia in tvp, that usually entails incorporating m&m with your army. I don't think many Terrans are comfortable playing that style though. I'm not trying to knock on a good thing. Can't wait for your future analysis!
5ukkub
Profile Joined September 2009
Poland507 Posts
November 02 2009 13:57 GMT
#58
I beg you plz upload the cast so we can watch it!
Rationalism - Don't take evereything what you hear as a fact! Thinking process makes us human.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
November 02 2009 13:58 GMT
#59
Machine what are you saving this money for? a rainy day? how does having a bunch of minerals in the bank benefit you in any way when you could have more vultures out allowing you to push earlier and have more map control. Day is suggesting he cut 2 (OMFG CRAZY WTF HOW INSANE) tanks. TWO! so he can have 2 more facts for vultures to come out of meaning a bigger army and less money in the bank.
Hi.
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-02 15:25:59
November 02 2009 15:18 GMT
#60
I'm begging to upload the casts! I want them more than air!
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
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