Stars got a really good draw. Luxury > Special Stats < Zero Hoejja > Guemchi Flash > Kwanro, however, Flash could lose to him as it's happened frequently before. Flash > Zero , if it gets to this point.
BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
cant understand whats the hype is all about flash wont even play maybe luxury is no longer slumping and special hasnt played a tvz yet stats has shown some awesome play vs type b and may have a good chance vs zero hoejja vs guemechi too bad he cant play pvz and flash...... well 3-0 or 3-1 to ktf without a sweat and i'm not even a kt fan
On October 12 2009 13:16 motbob wrote: BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
hahahaha within a few weeks someone will start using flashy 5 megabyte animated gifs in their OP
but still, Atrioc and Disciple make way better OPs :< /modesty
On October 12 2009 13:16 motbob wrote: BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
hahahaha within a few weeks someone will start using flashy 5 megabyte animated gifs in their OP
but still, Atrioc and Disciple make way better OPs :< /modesty
dont worry... you're still my favorite stars fanboy... <3
On October 12 2009 13:57 barbahaba0 wrote: cant understand whats the hype is all about flash wont even play maybe luxury is no longer slumping and special hasnt played a tvz yet stats has shown some awesome play vs type b and may have a good chance vs zero hoejja vs guemechi too bad he cant play pvz and flash...... well 3-0 or 3-1 to ktf without a sweat and i'm not even a kt fan
I think Stat's one notable ZvP can't be taken over Zero's countless notable ZvPs. And honestly, type-b kinda self-destructed in that game. And Moon Glaive I think is bad for Protoss in TvP and ZvP.
On October 12 2009 13:57 barbahaba0 wrote: cant understand whats the hype is all about flash wont even play maybe luxury is no longer slumping and special hasnt played a tvz yet stats has shown some awesome play vs type b and may have a good chance vs zero hoejja vs guemechi too bad he cant play pvz and flash...... well 3-0 or 3-1 to ktf without a sweat and i'm not even a kt fan
I think Stat's one notable ZvP can't be taken over Zero's countless notable ZvPs. And honestly, type-b kinda self-destructed in that game. And Moon Glaive I think is bad for Protoss in TvP and ZvP.
well thats the reason i said maybe 3-1 hopefully we'll have great games go ktf the playoff were kind of gloomy without them
On October 12 2009 13:16 motbob wrote: BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
thats fine. it makes proleague look even more epic than it already is
On October 12 2009 13:57 barbahaba0 wrote: cant understand whats the hype is all about flash wont even play maybe luxury is no longer slumping and special hasnt played a tvz yet stats has shown some awesome play vs type b and may have a good chance vs zero hoejja vs guemechi too bad he cant play pvz and flash...... well 3-0 or 3-1 to ktf without a sweat and i'm not even a kt fan
I think Stat's one notable ZvP can't be taken over Zero's countless notable ZvPs. And honestly, type-b kinda self-destructed in that game. And Moon Glaive I think is bad for Protoss in TvP and ZvP.
well thats the reason i said maybe 3-1 hopefully we'll have great games go ktf the playoff were kind of gloomy without them
I know, I just don't feel that stats has a "good chance" against ZerO. But it's a minor nitpick, you might've meant something else, like good chance considering he's a new(-ish) player.
ZerO is not prepared for the greatest powerchin since Leno. OK, so maybe ZerO is a massive favorite, and the map has ToTM-like access to the natural expo yet 12-hatch is extremely viable on it, but dammit, WE BELIEVE! GO CHINTOSS!
BTW: The only protossplayer to win twice on this map during the preseason was Stats... and yes, he was one of the rare players to actually show quality gaming in the preseason. So I doubt his good games were a fluke. OK, just added him to my sig of totally awesome players
On October 12 2009 13:16 motbob wrote: BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
thats fine. it makes proleague look even more epic than it already is
I wanted to keep the OPs clean and minimalistic but Atrioc made a big awesome flashy banner so I went for it as well for the ACE thread.
On October 12 2009 13:16 motbob wrote: BTW, this OP arms race between Atrioc, Realpenguin, and Disciple is going to continue until the pics are so big and flashy that you run out of bandwidth lololol
next time i am requiring a 2 gig .exe download that converts your entire computer into a Hwaseung OP
All I can say is that KT should want to finish this before Flash's game, but even then it's not hopeless. Not using Forgg/Violet might hurt them this match, as both might have a better chance to win against Guemchi than Hoejja. (Violet did lose their last match on HBR to storm drops, so that might be part of why he's not playing).
On October 13 2009 06:03 Nevuk wrote: All I can say is that KT should want to finish this before Flash's game, but even then it's not hopeless. Not using Forgg/Violet might hurt them this match, as both might have a better chance to win against Guemchi than Hoejja. (Violet did lose their last match on HBR to storm drops, so that might be part of why he's not playing).
ForGG has better chances if he plays once a week and maybe prepares for an ace match. Stats probably got the nod after qualifying for MSL with ease over quality opponents. Hoejja is a good pick especially vs protoss. If Stats doesn't fizzle out like Lucifer KT is gonna have a crazy scary team this season.
On October 13 2009 06:03 Nevuk wrote: All I can say is that KT should want to finish this before Flash's game, but even then it's not hopeless. Not using Forgg/Violet might hurt them this match, as both might have a better chance to win against Guemchi than Hoejja. (Violet did lose their last match on HBR to storm drops, so that might be part of why he's not playing).
ForGG has better chances if he plays once a week and maybe prepares for an ace match. Stats probably got the nod after qualifying for MSL with ease over quality opponents. Hoejja is a good pick especially vs protoss. If Stats doesn't fizzle out like Lucifer KT is gonna have a crazy scary team this season.
Yeah, it was a bit of a risk though as if Stars had fielded Free instead Hoejja would have almost no chance to win. Guemchi's PvZ is still way behind Free, even if his PvT is on almost the same level. His PvP is worse too, which is strange. Edit: Nevermind, Hoejja has beaten Free before. I somehow forgot that game.
On October 13 2009 06:03 Nevuk wrote: All I can say is that KT should want to finish this before Flash's game, but even then it's not hopeless. Not using Forgg/Violet might hurt them this match, as both might have a better chance to win against Guemchi than Hoejja. (Violet did lose their last match on HBR to storm drops, so that might be part of why he's not playing).
ForGG has better chances if he plays once a week and maybe prepares for an ace match. Stats probably got the nod after qualifying for MSL with ease over quality opponents. Hoejja is a good pick especially vs protoss. If Stats doesn't fizzle out like Lucifer KT is gonna have a crazy scary team this season.
Yeah, it was a bit of a risk though as if Stars had fielded Free instead Hoejja would have almost no chance to win. Guemchi's PvZ is still way behind Free, even if his PvT is on almost the same level. His PvP is worse too, which is strange. Edit: Nevermind, Hoejja has beaten Free before. I somehow forgot that game.
Hoejja has beaten every dragon except Stork and Kal haha.
On October 13 2009 09:31 Nevuk wrote: It's still not clear if Flash has gotten over his vulnerability to aggressive zergs like Kwanro yet.
Agreed, but this isn't a Bo3/5, it's just one game. Flashshould beat Kwanro today, he's still in danger in the Starleagues. I wonder if he celebrated when he heard his nemesis GGPlay had retired.
Just once I want to see someone of the Flash/Bisu caliber do everything in their power (I'm talking like 5 Cannons or 2 Rax and Bunker before CC here) to keep Kwanro from winning early, and then see if they can pull it back with their superior late games.
I know Kwanro can play late game so it's not free win but it would be so entertaining nonetheless.
On October 13 2009 08:48 n.DieJokes wrote: Luxury < Tornado > Special Stats < Moon Glaive > ZerO HoeJJa < Heartbreak Ridge > GuemChi Flash < Fighting Spirit > Kwanro
I lol'd. FlaSh is leagues ahead of Kwanro in skill.
HoeJJa's ZvP is also far better than GuemChi's.
I don't know HoeJJA to well but I think of him as 815 for desti, also GuemChi is the man; I think Kwanro's hyper aggressive style counters FlaSh macro pretty well and that it's not going to be their skill discrepancies that decide the game but instead miscalculations on FlaSh's part Edit- Awkward phrasing
I'd say a 3-1 win for KT with either Stats or Hoejja dropping a game, although I doubt both will lose their games. Luxury looked alright in his game last weekend vs Upmagic, so I really don't think he'll drop the game. If it goes to ace though, Flash will rape any of stars players.
i have to say that lux played pretty poorly in his game against upmagic.. made so many errors...
well, errors that you probably wouldn't see from a top zerg when they've got their shit together, eg: flying ur mutas into goliaths, scourge micro fail, stacked lurkers against tanks fail...
still not convinced lux has what it takes to help flash in the ace matches...
on the other hand, I can definitely see violet playing well enough to be ace.. excellent control, multitasking, and macro.. very impressive.
On October 13 2009 11:08 iCCup.deL wrote: I like it better when KT fans make the post.
It's ok because Woongjin is nothing compared to KT. KT's roster isn't as bad as people think.
I'm pretty sure most people agree that KT has the best roster around. They should legitimately have 3-4 aces and lots of strong, a-class back up players. It just never seems to pan out, as that's been KT's modus operandi since they were founded.
On October 13 2009 14:32 Scaramanga wrote: FUCK YEAH ROLSTER IN 3 flash dosent get a chance to get revenge but at least we get to see stats rape right?
Also, Luxury needs to be commended for slowing down the terran push to a crawl slowly retreating his lurkers until he had consume upgraded, the sacrifice of lurkers for holding the contain until he could secure a solid economic lead, and throwing away lings to keep the terran army close to home. Calculated and intelligent play throughout.
On October 13 2009 19:08 Kazius wrote: Also, Luxury needs to be commended for slowing down the terran push to a crawl slowly retreating his lurkers until he had consume upgraded, the sacrifice of lurkers for holding the contain until he could secure a solid economic lead, and throwing away lings to keep the terran army close to home. Calculated and intelligent play throughout.
Yep, it's these kinds of things that lesser zergs have trouble understanding. The way you do that is only learned through many many games and pretty good gamesense, or else you're just throwing away units.
ZerO expanding everywhere (literally all the bases that Stats doesn't control). Stats quickly shuts down two, but another drop in the main and fourth are shutting down Stats economy while two expansions survive.
The base at 1 o'clock did stick, it's fortified with mass sunk now the expand too many places to be attacked strategy worked. Zero is wearing Stats down with constant ultra/crack drops. Stats ggs.
if stats had reinforced his attack on zero's natural earlier in the game, would he have won then and there? his zlots were just sitting at the ramp while the rest of his army was being eaten by sunkens
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Stats gave a good fight, but in the end, ZerO's multi-pronged ultra attacks just didn't allow him to develop an army to hold more than two fronts, and he had to sacrifice defense in order to have some offensive options which unfortunately were no match for nydus enforced simcity.
Yeah i'm not sure what was impressive there? Once he had 4 gas secured it was over from then on with no harass from Stats. He didn't really have to do much except build ultralisk/ling -> drop and win game.
On October 13 2009 19:35 7mk wrote: holy shit that was impressive zero I can't help but like this kid more and more
i was abusive turtling :I nothing more
nah did you see how close stats was to defeating zero in the early game? (Solinren was lagging during that time, I was watching c.zeroboy.net) He probably would have won if his zealots hadnt stopped walking, plus at one point it was 4 base P vs 4 base Z, it was a very very good comeback by zero.
On October 13 2009 19:37 infinity2k9 wrote: Yeah i'm not sure what was impressive there? Once he had 4 gas secured it was over from then on with no harass from Stats. He didn't really have to do much except build ultralisk/ling -> drop and win game.
ah so 4 gas zerg is automatic ez win vs 4 base protoss, I see thx didn't know that ^^
Lol are you crazy, comeback? How long was he actually on 4base before Zer0 used the masses of units he had built up and hadn't even used to drop? Judging that solely by base count is dumb.
On October 13 2009 19:37 infinity2k9 wrote: Yeah i'm not sure what was impressive there? Once he had 4 gas secured it was over from then on with no harass from Stats. He didn't really have to do much except build ultralisk/ling -> drop and win game.
ah so 4 gas zerg is automatic ez win vs 4 base protoss, I see thx didn't know that ^^
On October 13 2009 19:35 7mk wrote: holy shit that was impressive zero I can't help but like this kid more and more
i was abusive turtling :I nothing more
nah did you see how close stats was to defeating zero in the early game? (Solinren was lagging during that time, I was watching c.zeroboy.net) He probably would have won if his zealots hadnt stopped walking, plus at one point it was 4 base P vs 4 base Z, it was a very very good comeback by zero.
I'm gonna argue with you but you are so wrong. stats had one shot at winning the game when zero had 3 sunks left at his nat but he didnt rally his zealots correctly. I dont think he would've been able to kill zero right there but he would've severly damaged his economy/tech. After that the game was pretty much over. It was 2base vs 4base full tech and stats had almost zero gas units. He tried to even things out a little by double expanding but obviously zero is too good to let such an advantage slip.
On October 13 2009 19:35 7mk wrote: holy shit that was impressive zero I can't help but like this kid more and more
i was abusive turtling :I nothing more
nah did you see how close stats was to defeating zero in the early game? (Solinren was lagging during that time, I was watching c.zeroboy.net) He probably would have won if his zealots hadnt stopped walking, plus at one point it was 4 base P vs 4 base Z, it was a very very good comeback by zero.
I'm gonna argue with you but you are so wrong. stats had one shot at winning the game when zero had 3 sunks left at his nat but he didnt rally his zealots correctly. I dont think he would've been able to kill zero right there but he would've severly damaged his economy/tech. After that the game was pretty much over. It was 2base vs 4base full tech and stats had almost zero gas units. He tried to even things out a little by double expanding but obviously zero is too good to let such an advantage slip.
The thing is stats still had a clearly superior army for a long time, had he defended better and done a better job of denying zero's expos (which zero built up without army support) then he would have won. But zero caught him at a very bad time, stats had his whole army destroying one defenseless base with just 1 hatch and nothing more, while both his main and expo got dropped. He was basically caught with his pants down to use a shitty metaphore and that started to turn around the game.
On October 13 2009 20:21 Scorch wrote: If he beats Flash now, it would make sense to send him to do the same again in an ace match.
honeslty i think stars wouldve prepared for flash on whatever map is int he 5th set. i think their ace palyer is predetermined. id imagine they'd send zero.
On October 13 2009 20:35 LordWeird wrote: GG. What a complete massacre. Kwanro just wasted all of his units... like 10 lurks died for no reason at all. :\
yea i agree, he really felt like suiciding units today
Flash destroys Kwanro with one solid timing push, just before the defilers come into play. Perfect execution of TvZ all the way. Kwanro deserved the curbstomp... Trying to outmacro Flash? Really??
Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions were some of the best
On October 13 2009 10:28 darktreb wrote: Just once I want to see someone of the Flash/Bisu caliber do everything in their power (I'm talking like 5 Cannons or 2 Rax and Bunker before CC here) to keep Kwanro from winning early, and then see if they can pull it back with their superior late games.
I know Kwanro can play late game so it's not free win but it would be so entertaining nonetheless.
Well it wasn't quite to the extreme I'd hoped for but I still definitely enjoyed seeing 6 Turrets, 2 Bunkers, and a Supply Depot in Flash's natural haha
Maybe now that Kwanro made an MSL final people will start taking him more seriously - personally I'm hoping to see 5 Cannons before Nexus (or if you're Stork, 2 Cannons and then you get your Cannon line broken 4 games in a row) or something absurd like that.
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions were some of the best
Except for the Yarnc, Kwanro, and (to a lesser extent) Jaedong games that eliminated him from both leagues last season =(
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions were some of the best
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions were some of the best
Flash dropped out of the OSL last season to Yarnc and Jaedong because they both 2 hatched Muta him and he was less than 5 seconds late on turrets and got dissected. Thus began the "Flash sucks vs Zerg" bullshit that went on for about a month.
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions are some of the best
On October 13 2009 20:39 Holgerius wrote: Good fucking game by Flash. His bio is awesome, I truly hope that he goes back to use it more often. I have a feeling this might be Flash's season. No more ''I'm not gonna get any turrets''-losses. :D
???
flash always gets turrets, his turrets positions were some of the best
Except for the Yarnc, Kwanro, and (to a lesser extent) Jaedong games that eliminated him from both leagues last season =(
I remember that game v jaedong, it wasn't the turrets' fault haha
Well Flash learns from his mistakes at least. That looked a little like Flash 6 months ago when he was invincible, hope it continues.
Otherwise the game was still rather impressive because of how awful those positions are for T. I'm not sure why the mapmakers thought that they needed to make the base harder to defend than Blue Storm 1.1 but anything that is not cross positions is horror TvZ.
Can anyone please explain why flash put 5 turrets at his natural, and hardly at his main? In the beginning, it was like flash expected kwanro to harras his natural, and only the natural.. it was only a minute or 2 later that he put up some turrets at the main..
On October 14 2009 06:42 Tyxiquale wrote: Can anyone please explain why flash put 5 turrets at his natural, and hardly at his main? In the beginning, it was like flash expected kwanro to harras his natural, and only the natural.. it was only a minute or 2 later that he put up some turrets at the main..
Because of the map layout, his main was easier to defend with M&M, it's harder for mutalisks to get to a 'safe spot' behind the mineral line there. He can defend his main mineral line with M&M, but that would be next to impossible to do with his natural, since the mutas can easily back up a bit and waste stims.
He started building turrets in his main so that he could move his M&M out of his base, but he wasn't worried about it while his M&M were still in his base.
EPT![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1r/5yhd9/10122009-luxvsspecialv6.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1i/5yhd9/10122009-lineupv4.png)
Luxury < Tornado > 
Special
Stats < Moon Glaive > ![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1g/5yhd9/10122009-resultsv4.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1h/5yhd9/10122009-reccedv4.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1l/5yhd9/10122009-howtowatchv5.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yt1f/5yhd9/10122009-pollsv4.png)
![[image loading]](http://media.tuzulo.com/images/5yplg/5yhd9/06262009-zeroexplosionv1.jpg)
