Majority of other comments isn't insulting I think. I wrote few lols and rofls but the game was that bad, I watched maybe 1/5 of it myself.
There really are things you can see for yourself, play again keeping them in mind and make thread when something less obvious happens.
Avoiding the 1st Spore or just checking where mutas were and not letting them idle anywhere - as it was misplaced so badly and started morphing way too late - is pretty much really... visible? here.

koreasilver talking about aneurysm is strange tho o.O flamebait?

AcrossFiveJulys

United States3612 Posts

July 13 2009 11:17 GMT

#43

On July 12 2009 13:31 koreasilver wrote:
You see, there are some times when one does not need to prove an argument due to it being complete common knowledge. The vast majority of ZvZs are 1hatch lair, you simply cannot argue against it. I mean, overpool -> lair is the safest fucking build in ZvZ; how could anyone possibly say that 1hatch lair is "all-in" in ZvZ? That's just completely ignorant.

I mean, you're implying that any ZvZ build besides 12pool expand and 12hatch are all-in. That's just ludicrous.

Jesus Christ.

I'm not trying to get involved in the argument, but I want to point out that saying "everyone does it" is terrible evidence for backing up your claim. Just a few years ago, most protosses were doing 1 base in PvZ but that turned out to be the wrong way to play the matchup.

Care to explain logically why 1 base muta isn't all in? After all, I'm sure plenty of people reading this thread would benefit from your supposed knowledge.

Geo.Rion

7377 Posts

July 13 2009 11:43 GMT

#44

upgrade the mutas dont let him exp, exp yourself
that's pretty much it. or lingallin maybe, but why would you do that if you have a safer option to win

koreasilver

9109 Posts

July 13 2009 14:19 GMT

#45

On July 13 2009 20:17 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:

Show nested quote +

You always get your lair within the first 200 gas you mine in ZvZ. Although this is pretty much how almost every Zerg build goes in each of the three matchups, due to the nature of ZvZ your gas timing is always fast and you never ever stop your gas intake. Due to the nature of the matchup, almost every build gets their pool and gas before anything, and due to the nonstop gas intake, a lot of the time you won't have enough drones to create a mineral surplus that will allow you to make a second hatchery for a long while.

On whether or not you can take a second hatchery before mutalisk production also depends A LOT on what build you opened with, what build your opponent opened with, what both you and your opponent are trying to due, how much larva is being invested into zerglings and drones, and also the map. There are just too many variables involved that can change your second hatch timing. In example, I always go overgaspool on Destination and pump drones like mad until I see zerglings running across the map with my overlord, and due to my extremely greedy opening I am always certainly able to get a second hatch before mutalisk production. I'm able to do this because the rush distance is so so so so far that by the time my opponent's zerglings are at my base I would have enough zerglings and/or a sunk to deter my opponent's attack. However, I just simply can't do the same thing on a map like Blue Storm because overgaspool just isn't that great of a build on the map, and due to the wide, rampless choke, zergling aggression is extremely strong and important on that map. Alot of ZvZs I've played on Blue Storm started and ended with one hatchery due to nearly all my larva being spent into zerglings, mutalisk, and scourge, with my initial drones being the only drones mining throughout the entire game.

I'm missing a lot of things that I know about, but I gotta get to work so I'll continue on with my explanation sometime else.

Excalibur_Z

United States12235 Posts

July 13 2009 14:45 GMT

#46

Echoing what was said here, you should be capitalizing on the mobility advantage that Mutas provide. A Spore's range is only so large, and that should be the only area you're not harassing relentlessly when your Muta numbers are small. Stock up on lings and use them to contain him within his base while you expand and take a second geyser. Anytime you see a Spire going up (which is realistically the only thing that can threaten you, because Muta/ling will tear apart Hydras) you can beat it with your Mutas via stack attacking.

rredtooth

5459 Posts

July 13 2009 18:21 GMT

#47

On July 12 2009 06:39 aokces wrote:
Ignore the spore (400 hp can take a lot of damage), the drone kills you get will be worth a few dead mutas.

Here's a better post for your title: 'ZvZ enemy spore colony'

Help, this guy went 5evo and spore rushed me. Knowing full well my overlords didn't stand a chance against the spore colonies, I decided to switch to sunken tech. But since he never built a pool, he got way ahead and eventually got the best of me with +1 carapace drones.

My question is, what should I do in a ZvZ if there is a spore colony? Those things are a big challenge to kill with just overlords. Research overlord speed? Switch to lings?

what the hell is this shit? trolls have to be funny to be funny...

Eggplant

United States120 Posts

July 13 2009 18:28 GMT

#48

Stacked mutas are so broken! Use them to your advantage!
Say opponent has S evenly spaced spore colonies, and you have M stacked mutalisks.

Given the size of a base, and the range of spore colonies, you will (in all reasonable situations) be able to find a location to place your m stacked mutas so that they are taking damage from as few spore colonies as possible. They may have 200 spore colonies around the map, but at any given location, because of muta stacking, you will easily outnumber the spores, during which time, if you can do significant damage to economy/tech, while only taking damage from a single colony, it's definitely worth the pain!