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On July 12 2009 06:39 aokces wrote:
Ignore the spore (400 hp can take a lot of damage), the drone kills you get will be worth a few dead mutas.
Here's a better post for your title: 'ZvZ enemy spore colony'
Help, this guy went 5evo and spore rushed me. Knowing full well my overlords didn't stand a chance against the spore colonies, I decided to switch to sunken tech. But since he never built a pool, he got way ahead and eventually got the best of me with +1 carapace drones.
My question is, what should I do in a ZvZ if there is a spore colony? Those things are a big challenge to kill with just overlords. Research overlord speed? Switch to lings?
LMAO that's brilliant.
Anyway, I can't believe no one's linked to Liquipedia yet: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Zerg_vs._Zerg_Guide This pretty much contains all you need to know about ZvZ as a Zerg newbie.
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Holy shit, did anyone other than koreasilver even watch the replay? His Zerg opponent canceled his fucking 8th drone, scouted like he had down syndrome, then went 7pool. He has 2 idle drones way early in the game, and like 5 mining with a sunken built in his base. Your opponent is amazingly bad I'm considering not watching the rest of the game.
His spore doesn't even guard half his fucking base! Why don't you just sit at the top of his base and kill some of his shit? Just avoid the damn spore, you don't even need micro. Just move and hold position to kill him. He's making pure drones when you can kill him. Why are your zerglings sitting at your base? Go to his. Why don't you expand or something? He obviously cannot attack, he has nothing.
Oh my bad, finally you try to muta harass(with a few unstacked mutas) and then run when his second spore finishes. You can still take out like half his drones with proper micro here.
Why are you switching over to hydra now? You just retreating from his base and let him expand for free. He's actually ahead of you now, despite his weird ass BO. At this point, I'm pretty sure computers can beat both of you in a ZvZ O_o
I'm 10 minutes in, and not even halfway done. I'm sorry, this is just too bad to watch. Please learn some basic ZvZ.
+ Show Spoiler +Unless my replay is glitched or something?
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1hatch lair in ZvZ is all-in now, APPARENTLY.
I think I'm gonna have an aneurysm.
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No, you're wrong.
If you're going to claim somebody is wrong, you ought to provide some evidence for the fact, otherwise your statement is worthless. It's quite simple really, 1 Hatch muta sacrifices economy and production capabilities for an early tech advantage. If you fail turn that sacrifice into an advantage somehow, your opponent is left with superior economy and production, and unless he/she completely sucks, its pretty much game over. This is demonstrated perfectly in the recent match between Jaedong and Yellow[arnc], in which, like I said, Jaedong failed to gain a significant advantage with his early tech, and was overpowered by a superior economy. Please explain to me how this is wrong.
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Just build mutaling and expand. Spore colonies can't protect your expo's, so you can just deny him from ever expanding while getting yourself a 2nd gas. Once you have your 2nd gas its pretty easy to win from there with mass muta vs his hydra.
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You see, there are some times when one does not need to prove an argument due to it being complete common knowledge. The vast majority of ZvZs are 1hatch lair, you simply cannot argue against it. I mean, overpool -> lair is the safest fucking build in ZvZ; how could anyone possibly say that 1hatch lair is "all-in" in ZvZ? That's just completely ignorant.
I mean, you're implying that any ZvZ build besides 12pool expand and 12hatch are all-in. That's just ludicrous.
Jesus Christ.
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On July 12 2009 12:12 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:If you're going to claim somebody is wrong, you ought to provide some evidence for the fact, otherwise your statement is worthless. It's quite simple really, 1 Hatch muta sacrifices economy and production capabilities for an early tech advantage. If you fail turn that sacrifice into an advantage somehow, your opponent is left with superior economy and production, and unless he/she completely sucks, its pretty much game over. This is demonstrated perfectly in the recent match between Jaedong and Yellow[arnc], in which, like I said, Jaedong failed to gain a significant advantage with his early tech, and was overpowered by a superior economy. Please explain to me how this is wrong.
You have no clue do you?
I'd say the vast majority of ZvZ's don't drop their second hatcheries until after their Lair is well in the process of being completed.
9 pool -> gas -> lair is probably the most common build....
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I'm gonna have an aneurysm.
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Hey Dr_Lefty! I played a zvz w/ u not too long ago (I'm jaeding on iCCup, D+)
I'm not sure If I'm exactly qualified to help you, But I'd be glad to help you with your zvz (I'd say I have C level zvz, but I hate to say something like that w/ no evidence... But I've been raping since my stat reset (stupid friends...)
Basically, shoot me a PM or something and I'd be happy to play w/ you and maybe give you pointers 
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you can easily micro can kill the spore.
one spore scare you to tech hydra is tard'd.
there is so many good advice ppl gave u. i think most effective you can do is. ran ling in snipe drone or take a expo and drone up win it in long term because by the time hes hydra got critical mass. you should have mass muta and handful of ling to roll hes hydra army over. because ur 2 base besides.
one spore cannot stop 6 muta or 4 muta. just pick drones off and he probably will gg after lost like 7 or 8 drones
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You see, there are some times when one does not need to prove an argument due to it being complete common knowledge. The vast majority of ZvZs are 1hatch lair, you simply cannot argue against it. I mean, overpool -> lair is the safest fucking build in ZvZ; how could anyone possibly say that 1hatch lair is "all-in" in ZvZ? That's just completely ignorant.
I think we have a misunderstanding about terminology. I didn't say a 1 hatch lair was "all in". I said 1 hatch Mutas was all in, meaning you are pumping mutas from only 1 hatchery, like Jaedong's recent Z v Z's. If you don't think that's all in, then I don't know what the hell is. After watching this dudes replay, I see that he did put down a second hatch after the spire, so I retract my comment, my bad.
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On July 12 2009 13:37 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2009 12:12 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:No, you're wrong. If you're going to claim somebody is wrong, you ought to provide some evidence for the fact, otherwise your statement is worthless. It's quite simple really, 1 Hatch muta sacrifices economy and production capabilities for an early tech advantage. If you fail turn that sacrifice into an advantage somehow, your opponent is left with superior economy and production, and unless he/she completely sucks, its pretty much game over. This is demonstrated perfectly in the recent match between Jaedong and Yellow[arnc], in which, like I said, Jaedong failed to gain a significant advantage with his early tech, and was overpowered by a superior economy. Please explain to me how this is wrong. You have no clue do you? I'd say the vast majority of ZvZ's don't drop their second hatcheries until after their Lair is well in the process of being completed. 9 pool -> gas -> lair is probably the most common build....
I'm not sure how your post contradicts his.
1-Hatch Muta specifically means building Mutalisks out of one Hatchery. If you get a second Hatchery on your way to a Lair, it isn't 1-Hatch Muta anymore because by the time your Spire gets done you have two Hatcheries.
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On July 12 2009 14:39 FrostedMiniWeet wrote: Show nested quote +You see, there are some times when one does not need to prove an argument due to it being complete common knowledge. The vast majority of ZvZs are 1hatch lair, you simply cannot argue against it. I mean, overpool -> lair is the safest fucking build in ZvZ; how could anyone possibly say that 1hatch lair is "all-in" in ZvZ? That's just completely ignorant. I think we have a misunderstanding about terminology. I didn't say a 1 hatch lair was "all in". I said 1 hatch Mutas was all in, meaning you are pumping mutas from only 1 hatchery, like Jaedong's recent Z v Z's. If you don't think that's all in, then I don't know what the hell is. After watching this dudes replay, I see that he did put down a second hatch after the spire, so I retract my comment, my bad.
You're absolutely clueless. Please stop posting.
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On July 12 2009 14:39 FrostedMiniWeet wrote: Show nested quote +You see, there are some times when one does not need to prove an argument due to it being complete common knowledge. The vast majority of ZvZs are 1hatch lair, you simply cannot argue against it. I mean, overpool -> lair is the safest fucking build in ZvZ; how could anyone possibly say that 1hatch lair is "all-in" in ZvZ? That's just completely ignorant. I think we have a misunderstanding about terminology. I didn't say a 1 hatch lair was "all in". I said 1 hatch Mutas was all in, meaning you are pumping mutas from only 1 hatchery, like Jaedong's recent Z v Z's. If you don't think that's all in, then I don't know what the hell is. After watching this dudes replay, I see that he did put down a second hatch after the spire, so I retract my comment, my bad.
...You play zerg...?
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On July 12 2009 09:34 peidongyang wrote:
Just double expand.
12 mutas owns 24 hydras if you start harrassing them the second they leave their base
are you kidding me? with hydra range? no way...
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you could easily destroy the spore, but if he proceeds to smack down like 4 or 5 then just use lings and own him. there's no way he would have enough hydras to stop them yet.
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On July 12 2009 07:13 tree.hugger wrote:
OP: Basically, a minimum of three mutas can easily take down a spore colony. If it makes you feel better, go kill the spore, but you're better off killing drones, and using lings to take out the spore. Hydra tech shouldn't beat a muta/ling army. There's a reason why you never see them in Korean ZvZs...
o.O;; 3 Muta's kill a spore? Maybe if its Kulkulza. You can micro spores too...
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Your title of the thread reminds me so much of that "giant enemy crab" thing lol.
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Switching to hydras was definitely a bad idea. He had switched to hydras before you, so why would you accept such an inconvenient imbalance? (by imbalance I mean, say, having more map control than the opponent or having more muta or less hydra than the opponent) If anything, switch back to lings and try to snipe the spore with muta support.
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This doesn't exactly address the OP but I've read so many replies that state that the proper counter to hydras is mutas. While mutas are better than hydras, getting a bunch of speedlings mixed in (IE like 2-4 lings for every muta) is way better. Lings are SO GOOD vs hydras it's insane. Hydras only do half damage to lings; 2 lings can beat 1 hydra.
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EPT
