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noob questions (sorry) - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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heintzy
Profile Joined May 2009
United States2 Posts
May 21 2009 06:56 GMT
#21
as a fellow noob it is disappointing to see some people mocking the OP. We were all noobs at this game at some point and we all needed help/advice/tips on how to improve. Props to those who took the time to respond to the OP.
snorlax
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States755 Posts
May 21 2009 07:19 GMT
#22
On May 21 2009 15:56 heintzy wrote:
as a fellow noob it is disappointing to see some people mocking the OP. We were all noobs at this game at some point and we all needed help/advice/tips on how to improve. Props to those who took the time to respond to the OP.

agreed
EchOne
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2906 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-21 07:31:00
May 21 2009 07:29 GMT
#23
I don't want to blow off the OP, but honestly I think this approach isn't very good for choosing what race you want to play. Face it, once you're a veteran, you'll have played every match-up and will have an idea of how much you enjoy every match-up. Then you will truly know what race to play: that is, the one you have the most fun with.

Personally, I think you should pick the race of whatever progamer you'd like to emulate. To even call yourself a player of BW you need to be motivated beyond belief, and following in the footsteps of an idol is a decent way to get motivated. I for instance simply HAD to learn TvP after being awe inspired by the Tornado Terran.

If you are not a follower of the pro-scene, I'd suggest you become one. Hopefully you can do so while reading TL news posts and strategy posts because if not I assure you that you will make tons of incorrect inferences about pro-level play. If you develop your mechanics while ignoring strategy, your growth will be retarded.

Other posters have recommended you start with Protoss. There appears to be little qualification in this thread, but there are other threads on TL where the questions of "Which race...?" have been discussed... and from many angles. Search function should summon them easily. When you see assertions that Protoss is easy you should remember that nothing in BW is easy.

If you simply must pick a race via TLnetters' arbitrary judgments, I recommend you start with Zerg for one because there is so much recent literature on Zerg compared to other races. Furthermore, early ling control will get you used to preserving your units, scouting will get you used to watching the geography and your opponent, and learning the intricacies of the Zerg economy will make Terran and Protoss economics look simple. If you're already decent at clicking buildings and building units (a crucial skill in AoK), then getting a hold on these other dimensions of BW will help you greatly.

tldr: Listen to your heart. Nothing in BW is easy. Watch Shinhan Proleague, son. Beginning with Zerg will teach you the most.

EDIT: Grammar mistakes be damned.
面白くない世の中, 面白くすればいいさ
0xDEADBEEF
Profile Joined September 2007
Germany1235 Posts
May 21 2009 07:32 GMT
#24
On May 21 2009 13:02 dirgewraith wrote:
I'm trying to decide what race to play, if you could answer these questions it would be much appreciated

1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?

Thanks in advance


1. Zerg most, then Terran, then Protoss. Zerg first because macro requires a careful balance between drones and units in addition to the multitasking and expand aspect all races have
Protoss last because their units build slowly so they have easier macro because you need to spend less time/APM to rebuild units
2. Terran most, then Zerg, then Protoss. Terran first because almost all of their units have special attacks/abilities and in TvZ you need to be very careful with your M&M. Protoss last because all their units have high hitpoints so minor micro fuckups aren't that bad
3. All are equal
4. Terran first, Zerg second, Protoss third
5. don't know WC3
6. Protoss, because #1-#4 show that they're easiest to control, making them the most newb-friendly and thus most popular race
7. They're just really fast and don't get mad at the fact that the controls suck. Common Zerg hotkey setup: 1-4 Units 5-0 Hatcheries, but of course 1-4 for units is not enough later on so you'll need to control some units manually which is very tedious but considered to be of great value in the SC community because you need to have high APM and multitasking to be able to do that at least half well.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66224 Posts
May 21 2009 10:52 GMT
#25
OP isn't responding
POGGERS
barth
Profile Joined March 2008
Ireland1272 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-21 11:00:25
May 21 2009 10:56 GMT
#26
If you choose Protoss you will be a target of ridicule (rightfully though).
I would suggest to try out all races and see wich one fits you best, thats how I felt in love with Zerg <3.
"Somebody you are talking to disappears mid sentence, and the universe shoots you because you talked to someone that wasn`t there." - MasterOfChaos
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
May 21 2009 11:10 GMT
#27
with Zerg you need more micro than macro, because they rarely get to lategame (in ZvZ almost never, in ZvT ZvP maybe half of the times), but it's the most micro intensive race, because you ahve to flank in both MUs, mutaharass is viable and requires good micro, lings die quickly and are hard to ctrl+select because of their numbers, lurkers need to be burrowed and unburrowed etc...
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
May 21 2009 11:12 GMT
#28
On May 21 2009 19:56 barth wrote:
If you choose Protoss you will be a target of ridicule (rightfully though).
I would suggest to try out all races and see wich one fits you best, thats how I felt in love with Zerg <3.

target of ridicule? at leat 40% of the foreign players are protoss, how could he be a target of ridicule....
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
May 21 2009 11:52 GMT
#29
Next person to shit on this thread is IP banned. Reply or get the fuck out.
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-21 14:56:00
May 21 2009 14:45 GMT
#30
On May 21 2009 14:31 cronican wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2009 14:16 Sentenal wrote:

In my experience, Zerg strategy is trying to do the gayest things possible to win.


There is certainly nothing homosexual about dropping your fat slow phallus in my backdoor or spraying your mana all over my members or sneaking your invisible unit into my sensitive mineral line either.


Let the flame war beging !!!

How ever, its acept than Terran is the one with most macro(Overal) needs and more micro(TvZ)

About timing it the same for the 3 a late tank can make you losse vs toos, late cannon can make losse vs zerg, late sunken can make you losse vs terran, late turrent can make you losse vs zerg etc...

Start with P like they say if you want to get confident since at low level you will mostly succed with them, i how ever play T (and im D) very bad but i make my best XD and i don't care i get own cause playing T at D lvl, its fun for me and thats the important part...

Age of empires has nothing to do with SC so you better start from 0

Welcome to the best RTS of all times.

^^
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
stk01001
Profile Joined September 2007
United States786 Posts
May 21 2009 14:59 GMT
#31
I also would reccomend protoss if your a WC3 player.. in regards to your WC3 question, I don't think you can really compare the WC3 races to SC since all the WC3 races are so micro based with fewer units and high amounts of hp but I can say that protoss would probably be the closest to all the WC3 races. Terran & Zerg play much differently from any race in WC3.
a.k.a reLapSe ---
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66224 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-21 15:06:55
May 21 2009 15:04 GMT
#32
^ Checo has an incredibly hard-to-read post.

In response to OP:

1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?

Zerg, Terran, Protoss

2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?


Zerg, Terran, Protoss

3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?

Zerg, Terran, Protoss

4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?


Zerg, Terran, Protoss (unless Terran goes bionic in TvZ.. then Terran should be first)

5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?


Zerg -> Undead (fragile but mass, aka ghouls and gargoyles)
Terran -> Human (strong and sturdy)
Protoss -> Night Elf/Orc (expensive but strong, many spells)

6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140

I say stick with Protoss, because Terran and Zerg require a lot of understanding of the game, due to specific counters needed for certain BOs. Protoss is definitely less build-reliant than the other two races.

7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?

Wc3 uses just 1~2 (because they tend to keep their upkeep at 'none', hence 50 food count), 3 -> one type of buildings, 4 -> another type of buildings (due to MBS). For SC however, first few -> units, then from 5 (or 4, if hands are small such as Savior's) to 10, it's the buildings. Don't know the exact group setup though.

Next time leave spaces between questions please, my eyes hurt ;__;
POGGERS
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
May 21 2009 15:23 GMT
#33
well zerg = mass units if you like that and flanking try zerg
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
bellweather
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States404 Posts
May 21 2009 19:26 GMT
#34
1. Z/T (tied, matchup dependent), P
2. Z/T (tied, matchup dependent), P
3. Z/T/P
4. T/Z/P
5. Z = Undead (blight lol), P = Night Elves (attack move archers/hunts), T = Human (arcane & comsat)
6. Play random or pick, but play an even distribution between the three races. It'll give you basic knowledge of how the units work, what players are "thinking" when playing a specific race, etc.
7. No clue, it's rather unimportant
A mathematician is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which isnt' there. -Charles Darwin
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
May 21 2009 19:38 GMT
#35
I think in terms of Warcraft 3 races

Protoss : Orc - Very strong beefy units
Terran: Nightelves weak ranged units
Zerg:Undead weak units in large numbers
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
May 21 2009 20:04 GMT
#36
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
Protoss most, but they also have easier macro mechanics + units take a while to build. Terran second, and then Zerg. Zerg macro is different as it relies more on the right unit combination than the most units.

2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
Probably Terran is the most, but Zerg is very close and Protoss quite far behind.

3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
I would say Terran the most as their build orders are very specific and always timing-based.

4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
Terran most, Zerg second, Protoss third. Again because of how precise terran needs to be.
However, this can easily become irrelevant if you know what you're doing, I'm a low apm terran.

5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
Sorry, can't answer - haven't played much WC3

6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
Protoss is usually considered the easiest race, but try them all out and figure out which one you most enjoy.

7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
My setup is 1-6 units, 7 as a production building to double click and jump back to production, and 8-9-0 as comsats or nexuses. this is for P/T, Zerg is pretty different and you usually hotkey at least four hatcheries.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
May 21 2009 21:05 GMT
#37
heh...
Believe me when i say, this one is not like other RTS games
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
May 21 2009 22:59 GMT
#38
On May 22 2009 00:04 konadora wrote:
^ Checo has an incredibly hard-to-read post.


U,U sorry but my writing sucks.... im trying to improve but i don't have that much time either = (
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
May 22 2009 00:46 GMT
#39
On May 21 2009 13:38 404.Delirium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2009 13:36 fusionsdf wrote:
1 Terran/zerg, Protoss
2 zerg/terran, protoss
3. Terran, zerg, protoss


You're terrible :<


lol truth hurts eh
snorlax
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States755 Posts
May 22 2009 01:27 GMT
#40
On May 21 2009 19:52 konadora wrote:
OP isn't responding

ya I just realised this me self
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