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I'm trying to decide what race to play, if you could answer these questions it would be much appreciated
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
Thanks in advance
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On May 21 2009 13:20 ramen247 wrote:
lol.
This is just bad. If I didn't have such a terrible fucking headache (seeing this thread is making it unbearable) I would answer each question with satire.
EDIT: This is bad = OP. I quote the "lol" in agreement 
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konadora
Singapore66072 Posts
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1. All races benefit equally from macro.
2. All races benefit equally from micro.
3. All races require good timing.
4. High APM will develop with your skill.
5. They're vastly different games.
6. Whichever race you have the most fun with.
7. Copying the way a pro does something does not make you pro.
I'm sure you already know all that, but there is no best race for anyone in particular.
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I have nothing to add except that Protoss is basically the Night Elves in Starcraft form and almost all progamers use hotkeys 2 and 7 for the most important units in their army (spellcasters, scouting units, scouts, etc)
Also, I think this post is in the wrong place!
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1 Terran/zerg, Protoss
2 zerg/terran, protoss
4. Terran, zerg, protoss
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On May 21 2009 13:36 fusionsdf wrote:
1 Terran/zerg, Protoss
2 zerg/terran, protoss
3. Terran, zerg, protoss
You're terrible :<
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Calgary25963 Posts
1. Varies by matchup (Zerg/Terran most, Protoss least)
2. Varies by matchup (Zerg/Terran most, Protoss least)
3. Protoss is most, Terran second, Zerg least.
4. Terran highest, Protoss second, Zerg least.
5. I don't play Warcraft 3. Terran = Orc, Zerg = Undead, Protoss = Night Elves.
6. 100% Protoss.
7. Varies by race and matchup. Protoss is typically 890 Nexus, 567 Gateways, 1234 Units.
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These questions remind me of something I might have to write an essay on in school.
"Which race would you recommend me and why"
Did you really expect someone to jump in and answer this question?
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Hi, and welcome to Starcraft!
You seem to have a slightly misguided perspective on the game based on what questions you asked. Things like "What race has the easiest micro" can't be answered simply. I would suggest that you read the recommended threads at the top of this forum:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60601
There's tons of info in that thread, both general and race specific. If you learn what's in thereThat said, the answer you're probably looking for is this:
Start with protoss.
At the lower levels, you can get the most success with protoss if your basics are lacking. But I would suggest that you try them all out and learn the strengths and weaknesses of each by playing. '
P.S. You should also read this post about posting in the strategy forum. You'll get better responses if you follow the rules to the letter.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60175
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i kinda get this...
(btw everything you do is dependent on the map, matchup, and starting build, but generally...)
1-> Terran requires the most APM and thus probably the most macro intensive because there is so much you need to do at all times. Plus their workers will go idle a lot more because they have to build shit.
2-> Zerg is generally regarded as the most micro dependent race because they have so many units on the map and they can all die very quickly, however this really lies in the matchup. Also pretty much every Terran unit has an ability, so you gotta micro that. And for Protoss you're units are so strong that microing just a few of them can turn an imbalanced battle in your favor.
3-> Timing is equally crucial to all races imo.
5-> "Warcraft is like the gay", so iono man...
7-> As a Zerg user i can tell you the we usually hotkey our units 1-4 and our Hatcheries 4 or 5+, but as the game progresses players will usually hotkey more groups of units or more hatcheries based on the players style. (hotkeys are pretty much 100% style though and i wouldn't recommend copying someones hotkeys unless you tweak it yourself.
btw like i said im Zerg so this post could be baised
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On May 21 2009 13:38 404.Delirium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2009 13:36 fusionsdf wrote:
1 Terran/zerg, Protoss
2 zerg/terran, protoss
4. Terran, zerg, protoss You're terrible :<
Chill agrees with me, except for the APM part which I dont understand at all.
I will quote from the bible of kkong[yg]:
YGCLAN: Most of the time, your race is protoss, so is there a reason or device that leads to this?
Kkong: There is no such thing. I’m more inclined toward the zerg with random, so I can do it, but my one-handed smoking habit merely led to the minimal multitasking protoss race. Therefore, I simply play many protoss vs zergs.
And Terran historically had higher APM players. Even though in the top ranks it is zerg and a protoss users with the highest APM, in general Terran requires the most APM, zerg second most and protoss the least.
Not saying that protoss is easy mode, or that is plays itself, just saying there are differences between the races that shouldn't be ignored.
Edit: oh nevermind 3 was timing lol...yeah then I agree protoss probably requires the most timing, but again this is matchup dependant
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Protoss is mostly macro, then scouting, then timing (IMO).
In my experience, Zerg strategy is trying to do the gayest things possible to win, and Terran strategy is trying to do the most boring things possible to win. Unless its TvZ/ZvT, then you micro your ass off.
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On May 21 2009 14:16 Sentenal wrote:
In my experience, Zerg strategy is trying to do the gayest things possible to win.
There is certainly nothing homosexual about dropping your fat slow phallus in my backdoor or spraying your mana all over my members or sneaking your invisible unit into my sensitive mineral line either.
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On May 21 2009 14:16 Sentenal wrote:
Protoss is mostly macro, then scouting, then timing (IMO).
In my experience, Zerg strategy is trying to do the gayest things possible to win, and Terran strategy is trying to do the most boring things possible to win. Unless its TvZ/ZvT, then you micro your ass off.
As the poster right before me said, toss has by far the easiest access to accomplish the gayest shit. Two high temp storms can destroy a mineral line for zerg, reavers are a goddamn bitch to fight, and you have a fucking invisible unit that can kill enemy workers WITHOUT ever alerting the player he's being attacked.
Toss gayness due to those things easily surpasses a zerg doing something like mutalisk micro or trying a lurker drop which is MUCH harder than a templar drop.
I've never been half decent with terran, but their harassment strategies are also much less homosexual than protoss.
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On May 21 2009 13:02 dirgewraith wrote:
I'm trying to decide what race to play, if you could answer these questions it would be much appreciated
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
Thanks in advance
This is all IMO, All I've accomplished on iCCup is barely breaking D+ with every race.
1. Zerg/Protoss for most macro, terran for least.
2. Terran/ Zerg for most micro, protoss for least.
3. Terran is the most.
4. Terran>Zerg>Protoss
5. Never played W3
6. I would recommend not terran or zerg since you're macro heavy... although ANY race can play ANY style. From what I've seen and heard Protoss has the most emphasis on macro lately.
7. Not my place to elaborate on this. IMO use what feels good.
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1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?:I would have to go with Terran being the most Macro Based, then Zerg and protoss tied, however Zerg is the most Macro intensive then terran then toss
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?: Terran is most micro intensive/micro based, then Zerg then Toss
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?Terran is the most timing based, then it depends on the MU and build each player goes, foreinstance a +1 Timing attack by toss in a ZvP is very important to pull off correctly, similarly with Muta Harass
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?Varies on play style and EAPM(effective Apm's) and acutal Apms, July foreinstance has very high Apm were Zerg are usually under Terran, Nal_ra also has extremely low Apm's but uses his commands very efficiently
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?To hard to answer lolol (I play WC3 at a rather high level as orcs and I honestly can't connect them that much
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140 I would recommend protoss, protoss are the most clean cut of the races, and because of this I always recommend them to new players, Zerg require a good understanding of larve and how to balance Drone and Unit production, and Terran are the hardest to succeed with until your mechanics are quite sound (I started with T and I can't tell you how many games I lost 50+ marines in a few seconds due to lurkers, or lost all my tanks due to not spreading them out and getting stormed or stasis
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup? its different depending on your play style and race and preference, but generall you hotkey your units and your buildings early game and late game your units, and maybe your expos, or one building in your macro line (Note the use of the F2-F4 keys, explained very well by Day[9]
NOTE: This thread may seem Terran weighted to you as them being the hardest race, that is not true, Terran is maybe the hardest on a very basic level but as I state before drone larve management is extremely tough, also protoss have some very strong units but if used inefectivley it can cause you a huge blow (No SK Terran remake your army in 30 seconds) =] I am not much of an expert on toss so im not sure why it is they are as hard in specific terms but through experience trust me there hard =]
Hope this helps
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Really, just play protoss.
The questions don't really need to be answered.
Just play protoss.
Trust me.
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On May 21 2009 15:34 Comeh wrote:
Really, just play protoss.
The questions don't really need to be answered.
Just play protoss.
Trust me.
I guess that explanation works as well =]
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as a fellow noob it is disappointing to see some people mocking the OP. We were all noobs at this game at some point and we all needed help/advice/tips on how to improve. Props to those who took the time to respond to the OP.
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On May 21 2009 15:56 heintzy wrote:
as a fellow noob it is disappointing to see some people mocking the OP. We were all noobs at this game at some point and we all needed help/advice/tips on how to improve. Props to those who took the time to respond to the OP.
agreed
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I don't want to blow off the OP, but honestly I think this approach isn't very good for choosing what race you want to play. Face it, once you're a veteran, you'll have played every match-up and will have an idea of how much you enjoy every match-up. Then you will truly know what race to play: that is, the one you have the most fun with.
Personally, I think you should pick the race of whatever progamer you'd like to emulate. To even call yourself a player of BW you need to be motivated beyond belief, and following in the footsteps of an idol is a decent way to get motivated. I for instance simply HAD to learn TvP after being awe inspired by the Tornado Terran.
If you are not a follower of the pro-scene, I'd suggest you become one. Hopefully you can do so while reading TL news posts and strategy posts because if not I assure you that you will make tons of incorrect inferences about pro-level play. If you develop your mechanics while ignoring strategy, your growth will be retarded.
Other posters have recommended you start with Protoss. There appears to be little qualification in this thread, but there are other threads on TL where the questions of "Which race...?" have been discussed... and from many angles. Search function should summon them easily. When you see assertions that Protoss is easy you should remember that nothing in BW is easy.
If you simply must pick a race via TLnetters' arbitrary judgments, I recommend you start with Zerg for one because there is so much recent literature on Zerg compared to other races. Furthermore, early ling control will get you used to preserving your units, scouting will get you used to watching the geography and your opponent, and learning the intricacies of the Zerg economy will make Terran and Protoss economics look simple. If you're already decent at clicking buildings and building units (a crucial skill in AoK), then getting a hold on these other dimensions of BW will help you greatly.
tldr: Listen to your heart. Nothing in BW is easy. Watch Shinhan Proleague, son. Beginning with Zerg will teach you the most.
EDIT: Grammar mistakes be damned.
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On May 21 2009 13:02 dirgewraith wrote:
I'm trying to decide what race to play, if you could answer these questions it would be much appreciated
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
Thanks in advance
1. Zerg most, then Terran, then Protoss. Zerg first because macro requires a careful balance between drones and units in addition to the multitasking and expand aspect all races have
Protoss last because their units build slowly so they have easier macro because you need to spend less time/APM to rebuild units
2. Terran most, then Zerg, then Protoss. Terran first because almost all of their units have special attacks/abilities and in TvZ you need to be very careful with your M&M. Protoss last because all their units have high hitpoints so minor micro fuckups aren't that bad
3. All are equal
4. Terran first, Zerg second, Protoss third
5. don't know WC3
6. Protoss, because #1-#4 show that they're easiest to control, making them the most newb-friendly and thus most popular race
7. They're just really fast and don't get mad at the fact that the controls suck. Common Zerg hotkey setup: 1-4 Units 5-0 Hatcheries, but of course 1-4 for units is not enough later on so you'll need to control some units manually which is very tedious but considered to be of great value in the SC community because you need to have high APM and multitasking to be able to do that at least half well.
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konadora
Singapore66072 Posts
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If you choose Protoss you will be a target of ridicule (rightfully though).
I would suggest to try out all races and see wich one fits you best, thats how I felt in love with Zerg <3.
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with Zerg you need more micro than macro, because they rarely get to lategame (in ZvZ almost never, in ZvT ZvP maybe half of the times), but it's the most micro intensive race, because you ahve to flank in both MUs, mutaharass is viable and requires good micro, lings die quickly and are hard to ctrl+select because of their numbers, lurkers need to be burrowed and unburrowed etc...
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On May 21 2009 19:56 barth wrote:
If you choose Protoss you will be a target of ridicule (rightfully though).
I would suggest to try out all races and see wich one fits you best, thats how I felt in love with Zerg <3.
target of ridicule? at leat 40% of the foreign players are protoss, how could he be a target of ridicule....
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Next person to shit on this thread is IP banned. Reply or get the fuck out.
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On May 21 2009 14:31 cronican wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2009 14:16 Sentenal wrote:
In my experience, Zerg strategy is trying to do the gayest things possible to win. There is certainly nothing homosexual about dropping your fat slow phallus in my backdoor or spraying your mana all over my members or sneaking your invisible unit into my sensitive mineral line either.
Let the flame war beging !!!
How ever, its acept than Terran is the one with most macro(Overal) needs and more micro(TvZ)
About timing it the same for the 3 a late tank can make you losse vs toos, late cannon can make losse vs zerg, late sunken can make you losse vs terran, late turrent can make you losse vs zerg etc...
Start with P like they say if you want to get confident since at low level you will mostly succed with them, i how ever play T (and im D) very bad but i make my best XD and i don't care i get own cause playing T at D lvl, its fun for me and thats the important part...
Age of empires has nothing to do with SC so you better start from 0
Welcome to the best RTS of all times.
^^
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I also would reccomend protoss if your a WC3 player.. in regards to your WC3 question, I don't think you can really compare the WC3 races to SC since all the WC3 races are so micro based with fewer units and high amounts of hp but I can say that protoss would probably be the closest to all the WC3 races. Terran & Zerg play much differently from any race in WC3.
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konadora
Singapore66072 Posts
^ Checo has an incredibly hard-to-read post.
In response to OP:
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
Zerg, Terran, Protoss
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
Zerg, Terran, Protoss
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
Zerg, Terran, Protoss
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
Zerg, Terran, Protoss (unless Terran goes bionic in TvZ.. then Terran should be first)
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
Zerg -> Undead (fragile but mass, aka ghouls and gargoyles)
Terran -> Human (strong and sturdy)
Protoss -> Night Elf/Orc (expensive but strong, many spells)
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
I say stick with Protoss, because Terran and Zerg require a lot of understanding of the game, due to specific counters needed for certain BOs. Protoss is definitely less build-reliant than the other two races.
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
Wc3 uses just 1~2 (because they tend to keep their upkeep at 'none', hence 50 food count), 3 -> one type of buildings, 4 -> another type of buildings (due to MBS). For SC however, first few -> units, then from 5 (or 4, if hands are small such as Savior's) to 10, it's the buildings. Don't know the exact group setup though.
Next time leave spaces between questions please, my eyes hurt ;__;
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well zerg = mass units  if you like that and flanking try zerg
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1. Z/T (tied, matchup dependent), P
2. Z/T (tied, matchup dependent), P
3. Z/T/P
4. T/Z/P
5. Z = Undead (blight lol), P = Night Elves (attack move archers/hunts), T = Human (arcane & comsat)
6. Play random or pick, but play an even distribution between the three races. It'll give you basic knowledge of how the units work, what players are "thinking" when playing a specific race, etc.
7. No clue, it's rather unimportant
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I think in terms of Warcraft 3 races
Protoss : Orc - Very strong beefy units
Terran: Nightelves weak ranged units
Zerg:Undead weak units in large numbers
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1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
Protoss most, but they also have easier macro mechanics + units take a while to build. Terran second, and then Zerg. Zerg macro is different as it relies more on the right unit combination than the most units.
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
Probably Terran is the most, but Zerg is very close and Protoss quite far behind.
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
I would say Terran the most as their build orders are very specific and always timing-based.
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
Terran most, Zerg second, Protoss third. Again because of how precise terran needs to be.
However, this can easily become irrelevant if you know what you're doing, I'm a low apm terran.
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
Sorry, can't answer - haven't played much WC3
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
Protoss is usually considered the easiest race, but try them all out and figure out which one you most enjoy.
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
My setup is 1-6 units, 7 as a production building to double click and jump back to production, and 8-9-0 as comsats or nexuses. this is for P/T, Zerg is pretty different and you usually hotkey at least four hatcheries.
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heh...
Believe me when i say, this one is not like other RTS games
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On May 22 2009 00:04 konadora wrote:
^ Checo has an incredibly hard-to-read post.
U,U sorry but my writing sucks.... im trying to improve but i don't have that much time either = (
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On May 21 2009 13:38 404.Delirium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2009 13:36 fusionsdf wrote:
1 Terran/zerg, Protoss
2 zerg/terran, protoss
3. Terran, zerg, protoss You're terrible :<
lol truth hurts eh
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On May 21 2009 19:52 konadora wrote:
OP isn't responding
ya I just realised this me self
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1a2a3a is all you need to know
oh yeah and maybe the occasional Esc+S+Q
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On May 22 2009 05:04 Pokebunny wrote:
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
Protoss most, but they also have easier macro mechanics + units take a while to build. Terran second, and then Zerg. Zerg macro is different as it relies more on the right unit combination than the most units.
O_O
I think you have it backwards.
Zerg are usually tied with terran in terms of micro (if the terran is going M&Ms then they might be a bit ahead) and Protosses don't macro as much as the two other races.
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All these answers are from my opinion only =P
1. Which races are the most, second most and least macro intensive/macro based?
Protoss. If you give them the time and bases to macro, they will easily run you over. 2nd most is probably zerg since they need to regenerate their army fastest.
2. Which races are the most, second most and least micro intensive/micro based?
Terran, zerg, then protoss
3. Which races are the most, second most and least timing intensive/timing based?
Terran, Zerg, then Protoss
4. Which races require the highest, second highest and lowest APM (typically)?
Terran, Zerg, Protoss. There are obviously exceptions, like sair reaver compared to turtle terran.
5. Which starcraft races would you liken to each warcraft 3 race?
I don't play WC3
6. Which race would you recommend me and why: I have little starcraft experience, less than 100 games online; however, I've played lots of other RTS games. I'm generally a fairly well rounded player in most games, but my RTS background is mainly in the age of empires series, so macro is typically my strong suit. My APM in any RTS game tends to start rather low, and goes up to about 120 when I've got the hang of the game. From there it slowly rises as I keep playing the game, but thus far I haven't stuck with any single game long enough to get past 140
From what i've heard, starcraft requires much more apm than other RTS games. If you like macro, try Protoss. Of course you'd be jumping on the bandwagon with all these macro based maps these days, but it may be the best bet.
7. An unrelated question, but how do pro SC players tend to use their control groups? I know WC3 pros tend to use 1-3 or 1-4 or 1-5 for units and the rest for buildings, but from what I've read about starcraft it seems pros use their control groups mainly for buildings...Can someone shed some light on this for me, maybe an example of a pro's control group setup?
Early in the game there aren't many units for someone to control. Therefore their hotkeys are on important units or buildings. But once you start making an army your army will be your main concern. Most times the army's in 1-5, with 6-0 being buildings/special units.
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Play Protoss, then Zerg, then Terran. Play whichever race you had to most fun with (Or just best at)
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On May 22 2009 12:01 Disintegrate wrote:
1a2a3a is all you need to know
oh yeah and maybe the occasional Esc+S+Q
F10-E-S-Q. Nice try, thought.
How did this get to 3 pages? rofl
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haha, if you're completely new to the game entirely, make sure you can play through single-player without a hitch. you'll get stomped on getting on iccup or dare I say even battle.net games with little to no understanding of the game and races.
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How can people say that Terran/Zerg are both more Micro based, and more macro based than Protoss?
Obviously, if Protoss really don't need to micro much (I wouldn't disagree), then obviously that makes them much more macro based. Like people say "Protoss 1a2a3a gg" stuff, because Protoss sits there, they macro, and then attack move. How can you get more macro based than that?
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if you've played the age series, you'll better understand the OP's questions - no balance there.
op, basically what you can gather from all these responses is that there is virtually no right answer to any of the questions. no consensus. if you've desires to be above d+ you'll probably have to increase your apm quite a bit no matter which race you choose.
personally, if i could go back, i would start off with protoss because i rarely use 8-0 on my hotkeys, nor f2,f3,f4. the hotkey for the protoss probe (p) makes 9 + 0 the best hotkeys for nexuseses. ANd, the easy base design gateways afford pretty much ensures you can fit 8-10 into a single screen (you can with terran, too, but it gets more difficult with pathing issues) thus enticing you to learn to use shift-f2 for increased apm (shift-f2 is basically a hotkey to a particular part of the map you assign it)
next i would move onto zerg because i think you'd best learn a sense of the game with them. they tend to be a little easier to macro with at low levels but demand in return very strong micro before the game is decided and the 'swarm' takes over. i can't give any specific reason why they provide a more indepth sense of the game other than the great zerg players seem to be best at springing traps.
lastly, i would take up terran. (if you are unsatisfied with the other playstyles). the only reason they're last is because you can't really learn anything valuable from them right away. i took up sc quite a few months ago and pretty much went right to terran. i lost a LOT at first and still do. the biggest fault i had (aside from horrible m&m micro ) was that i tended to turtle no matter what. if you start and stay with terran i think the 'game-sense' learning curve is ultra-slow. they also rely the least on manual scouting after the first five minutes which isn't to say it isn't important. especially to the development of a nice vulture harass.
anyway. my two cents, one noob to another. one useful program you might consider dl'ing is advloader. you can set an alarm that will sound when your apm falls below a specified level. it disallows antihack so you can't really play iccup games, but for straight b-net you should be fine.
good luck
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oh, one more thing. i was about top150 in aoe tad, even beating top twenty players once in a while, and starcraft is so much harder it's insane. be ready for a huge wake up call.
think speed chess more than casual gaming
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I wouldnt compare them by "races" but by MUs.
TvP - positioning, timing are prolly most important
TvZ - (assuming bio) micro,micro,micromicromicro is very important, spreading rines vs lurks, stimming, siegeing/unsiege'ing tanks, irradiating, running away from swarms, etc also means u need quite high apm
TvT - positioning, drop play, slow game pace
PvT - positioning (the more flanks the better;) ), macro and knowing when and when not to expand, when to tech to legs/storm/arbs/carriers
PvZ - i know about this MU the least, cause didnt play it that much, its mostly based on how well do u storm and macro is also very important
PvP - reaver control, storm placement, knowing when and when not to expand (as prolly w/ every mirror...)
ZvP - reading ur opponent, good macro, agression
ZvT - (assuming vs bio) positioning of lurkerling (good flank = T eaten almost with no casualties), good muta micro, agressive play to keep T out of ur bases until u have defielrs, then good swarm/plague placements.
ZvZ - micro intensive, knowing when to and when not to fight is prolly most important in this MU.
Some people may disagree with me, thats only what i think is most crucial in outcome of most of my games in these mu.
Overall - T is more defensive (bio actually is more agressive), Z agressive, P - depends on mu, but good storms will change outcome in EVERY P's MU.
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i think all these questions are dependent on the individual you ask (not including the first 3 questions) but to answer:
1-3 ---> the same in theory
4 ---> negligible
5 ---> terran/human, protoss/orc (only because of the zealot/grunt similarity), zerg/undead
6 ---> whichever race you enjoy most or find easiest to play (believe me it makes a difference)
7 ---> it's basically preferences but usually 1-5 for units and the others 6-0 for buildings
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Zurich15313 Posts
On May 21 2009 13:28 404.Delirium wrote:This is just bad. If I didn't have such a terrible fucking headache (seeing this thread is making it unbearable) I would answer each question with satire. EDIT: This is bad = OP. I quote the "lol" in agreement
On May 21 2009 13:20 ramen247 wrote:
lol.
On May 21 2009 13:30 konadora wrote:
MY EYES
The first three post on this thread. This is not how you respond to posts from new users who just start with Starcraft. Someone comes from other RTS and wants to try BW and you kids try everything to turn them off, great work.
If you think this was a stupid OP don't reply and wait for Chill to decide what to do about it.
ramen gets a ban for this and previous offences. Everyone else write 'I Will Be Welcoming New Starcraft Players In The Future' 100x in channel op irc (C&P not allowed).
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I think there should be a post/thread for people who just started, and make it so that anyone will notice it.
I'm from wc3 too ~
Stuff that comes to mind are
www.iccup.com
www.gomtv.net - replays are useles if you dont understand anything
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
I don't like all the toss bashing, why is it that there are only 1P/10 in the powerank and only 6P/30 Kespa and only 9P/40 eulo? rating.
I understand proffesional level is different, but such hate towards toss?
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Calgary25963 Posts
This OP is fine. He's clearly stated his skill level and is asking very directed questions. There is no reason to laugh at this OP at all in my eyes. Several people with much higher skill level could learn a thing or two about making a thread from this one.
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Calgary25963 Posts
On May 23 2009 00:35 Gunman_csz wrote:
I don't like all the toss bashing, why is it that there are only 1P/10 in the powerank and only 6P/30 Kespa and only 9P/40 eulo? rating.
I understand proffesional level is different, but such hate towards toss?
There is no hate against Protoss. 95% of people are best learning with Protoss. Their infrastructure is the simplest, their units are the most versatile and hearty for beginners, and their static defense is the best. All this makes Protoss the easiest race to learn.
Edit: As for your ratings, it's because of variation in skill at this moment. That's what a rating is.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On May 23 2009 00:37 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 00:35 Gunman_csz wrote:
I don't like all the toss bashing, why is it that there are only 1P/10 in the powerank and only 6P/30 Kespa and only 9P/40 eulo? rating.
I understand proffesional level is different, but such hate towards toss? There is no hate against Protoss. 95% of people are best learning with Protoss. Their infrastructure is the simplest, their units are the most versatile and hearty for beginners, and their static defense is the best. All this makes Protoss the easiest race to learn. Edit: As for your ratings, it's because of variation in skill at this moment. That's what a rating is.
varition in skill at this moment?
As I remember reading, the scene was never dominated heavily by Protoss, it has always been Terran or Zerg dominated. Please correct me if I am wrong.
The pro scene is filled with Terran and Zergs (not only now but nearly always), I am not saying the other races are imbalance, just showing that Protoss is not instant win like some people here would make us believe.
If you have previous exposure to RTS (ie WC3) then I don't think you should only limit yourself to protoss. just choose whatever race you find enjoying to play or fascinates you. the learning curve for FPS players will be hard, but like I said anyone who has had competitive exposure to RTS will easily adapt to any race easily!
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Calgary25963 Posts
On May 23 2009 00:48 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2009 00:37 Chill wrote:On May 23 2009 00:35 Gunman_csz wrote:
I don't like all the toss bashing, why is it that there are only 1P/10 in the powerank and only 6P/30 Kespa and only 9P/40 eulo? rating.
I understand proffesional level is different, but such hate towards toss? There is no hate against Protoss. 95% of people are best learning with Protoss. Their infrastructure is the simplest, their units are the most versatile and hearty for beginners, and their static defense is the best. All this makes Protoss the easiest race to learn. Edit: As for your ratings, it's because of variation in skill at this moment. That's what a rating is. varition in skill at this moment? As I remember reading, the scene was never dominated heavily by Protoss, it has always been Terran or Zerg dominated. Please correct me if I am wrong. The pro scene is filled with Terran and Zergs (not only now but nearly always), I am not saying the other races are imbalance, just showing that Protoss is not instant win like some people here would make us believe. If you have previous exposure to RTS (ie WC3) then I don't think you should only limit yourself to protoss. just choose whatever race you find enjoying to play or fascinates you. the learning curve for FPS players will be hard, but like I said anyone who has had competitive exposure to RTS will easily adapt to any race easily!
No one is making you believe that. It's the easiest race to do well with at low levels and the hardest race to do well with at very high levels. Everyone knows this.
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The most important thing is to enjoy BW. You have some idea of what each unit does so go watch some competitive VODs to get amped up. Then check out the VOD threads by Oysteen's, Ahzzz or Stylish - they show you bits of all 3 races.
By this point you will inevitably be drawn to a style/race/player... something to strive for or someone to emulate. Don't get over-analytical as to what race to pick based on advice from the forums - find an emotional connection instead. The macro, micro, hotkeys, build orders and timing you will have to learn with any race you pick. Practice, have fun, go back to the VODs (at first pass little will stick), and welcome to TL.
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On May 21 2009 13:33 alien3456 wrote:
I'm sure you already know all that, but there is no best race for anyone in particular.
He didn't ask for perfect race. He just asked for answers of questions every noob can ask.
To OP: don't stick with 1 race. You probably play sc to get prepared for sc2, so make this time most valuable by playing all 3. And it's much more fun.
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EPT
