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[Q] Difference, 9 pool and overpool - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Pnigro
Profile Joined December 2006
6 Posts
June 28 2009 16:56 GMT
#21
This thread is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There should be a wiki entry explaining the difference between these build orders.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
June 28 2009 17:12 GMT
#22
On May 18 2009 04:28 CoL_DarkstaR wrote:
when the map is bigger, you need faster lings and therefor the 9pool.
when you dont need lings that fast, you go for overpool.

whatever the rest of your tactic is, is up to you how to use the lings.

This basically. In ZvP mainly you use 9 pool instead of over 9 on long maps like destination to still force him to forge cannon cannon or forge cannon/pull probes. Instead of forge nexus cannon cannon like he could do against over 9.

The speed thing is a preference. Up to you..do you want to deny scouting to make him guess your build more until sair is out...or do you want a faster third expo up and slightly faster tech.

Against T its very situational/map dependent. Most of the time you dont want to do either one. An example of when you do however is 12/3 on a map like python where you scout him without him seeing your overlord , then you might want to 9 pool. Orrrr conversely you scout him WITH him seeing your overlord and you want to econ but you want 6 lings out to apply pressure and prevent him from blocking your nat hatch.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-28 17:18:33
June 28 2009 17:14 GMT
#23
On May 18 2009 04:31 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote:
overpool has 2 drones mining for more time than 9 pool. Personally, I think overpool is a lot better than 9 pool.

The thing about 12 hatch is it can get really gay if the protoss can put a pylon down to block your hatch. So in 2 player maps, I like to play overpool without gas if I want to get a fast expansion down. It stops all the 9/9 gates pretty well and it also prevents pylons from going up in your nat hatch spot. Also, what you can do is save up 2 larva and make drones right when your pool finishes. This will force the toss to make cannons while you can just use those drones as extra economy.

I'm not sure about when 9 pool is better than overpool. Maybe close rush distances to force cannons? Although overpool can force cannons a lot too.

With speed:

pros: less economy than without speed.
denies scouting
can make a toss make 3 cannons (if he's korean. foreigners tend to sack up and stay with 2 cannons. Can also do a runby that can basically kill a toss)
you have your gas down which can lead to very fast muta if you put drones bak on gas after killing scout. You can also 2 hatch hydra with this or 3 hatch speedling.

cons: Less economy
hatchery comes slower.
If he just puts 2 cannons and can block your runby, you're pretty far behind.

other questions are pretty subjective.

On long maps saving 2 larvae and making drones WONT make P make cannons if hes good. He will simply watch your hatch carefully and react to the exact units you're making/when you send the lings to the nat instead of chasing the probe. At higher levels of play run by is rarely a good idea because most good ps always have good probe placement to block. Losing those initial lings is huge. Every larvae counts in the early game.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada967 Posts
June 28 2009 18:10 GMT
#24
u can think of 9pool and overpool like 2gate tech and 1gate tech. 9pool is more aggresive and forces the toss to get 2 cannons. toss can get away with a nexus if zerg does overpool
Team[AoV]
Fr33t
Profile Joined June 2008
United States1128 Posts
June 28 2009 18:18 GMT
#25
On May 18 2009 06:50 AttackZerg wrote:
The difference between overpool and 9pool is (sorry but obviously) the time in which lings can get to an opponents base for a runby.

To explain more directly. On destination if you overpool toss your odds of being able to beat both cannons and getting slow lings to get into tosses bases straight off is very slow, since protoss can easily get cannons in time. While with 9pool you can quite often (imo all that way up to c+) get at least 3 lings inside of protoss base, with ling speed finishing about 7 seconds after you run past tosses ramp. 3 speedlings inside of protosses base before he gets a gateway is a huge huge deal.

Overpool is good at allowing you to very easily transition into standard 3 hat lair -> 5 hat economy/gameplay. Also overpool can (in a less suicidal fashion) run by with 8-10 lings and get sometimes up to 5-6 lings into tosses base, which with any form of decent micro/macro is an auto-win.

Also with 9pool if you make those additional lings after your first six, your economy is so shot to hell that your third hat and lair are extremely late, in otherwords without dealing damage you can be light years behind protoss in both technology and economy, which is very hard to overcome.

Now the issue of gas or no gas. Overpool-11hat is an amazing build order. You can still get alot of auto-runbys against cocky/bad protoss players, and your hatchery is only 5 or 6 seconds later then a 12 hat. Overpool gives huge advantages against proxygates, and blind macro toss. Also just doing it and denying basic probe inflitration will disrupt alot of protoss builds, which will give you a chance of them 'over building' and leaving a huge timing window, or shoot their economy in the foot and getting their second gas very early, or very late.

Overpool-speed is amazing because you can cancel speed at 99%, which to lair after your third hat, build drones until 17/17, make a lair-> overlord then put drones on gas and still have enough gas when your lair is done for a spire, while you can fully recover from any economic setback, also protoss will often make a third cannon and/or block some holes with probes.

9pool without speed isn't that great of a build zvp at all imo. It doesn't give you any of the flexiblity of an overpool, it has work economy of an overpool, and you don't have an extractor to grief toss with the possiblity of 2 hat / 3 hat hydra/muta/ling all-in's.

Most of the 'facts' I gave are 100% solid, my opinions about the uses of them are biased and based off of gameplay and observation, so they can and should be taken as 'opinion'.

Cheers!

Awesome post! Thanks
"Wow you could literally transport Lomo's face to a girl and the result would be pretty deceptive."
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
June 29 2009 02:08 GMT
#26
You guys do know something. Go edit liquipedia.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
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