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I've got some questions regarding the uses of the patrol command and using waypoints (not rallys) during a game. Just to clarify, waypoints are when you issue a command, shift+click another command, up to 9 commands.
What I understand thus far...
Patrol - unit will endlessly go between two points and if an attackable unit comes within range, your unit engage and the patrolling will end. Questions - Can you patrol in a triangular route? ie 3-point patrol? When do you use patrol during a game? I usually use a DT in pvz to monitor potential zerg expos. Observers patrol as well in pvall to watch when the enemy moves out or tries to expand. Also, stationary observers for the same purpose. Any other uses as toss for patrol command? During battle with certain units? I know terran uses patrol with vulture v zergling micro, but is it viable for goon dancing?
waypoints - sometimes I use a probe/zealot to do a one-time scouting at all expos. Also, during battles, I've noticed that I like to target one unit, shift+click another unit. This occurs mainly with carriers and goons. Occasionally I do this as well with storms when mass zerg units are invading. goons/zealots are already engaged, then HT come from behind and cast two storms each at certain locations. The obvious use as toss is for the probe, build+shiftclick to minerals. Too bad you can't use waypoint to build multiple buildings. Build pylon, shiftclick build pylon, shiftclick build pylon, shiftclick minerals.
Any knowledge on how these commands are utilized at the pro level? I would like to hear TL's input and discussion on this topic because I know there is some uses that I'm missing/unaware of.
Thanks in advance!
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konadora
Singapore66359 Posts
3-point patrol is impossible since the command is between the location of where you gave the command and the location you targeted, and just those two. Usually use patrol around base perimeters (observers/scourges/overlords) to scout for any incoming drops, DT walk-bys, hidden lurkers, buildings, etc). The few units that benefit from patrol micro are mutalisks, vultures and wraiths. For the rest, using attack -> right click -> attack -> right click (repeat) on units such as Dragoons, Battlecruisers, Hydralisks etc are more effective.
Waypoint battling is bad because when 4 dragoons might be needed to kill 1 marine, if you have 8 dragoons and waypoint battle the marine, all the dragoons will move to the marine and shoot at it, wasting 4 hits. For battle, just don't be lazy and micro well.
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Patrol is useful for micro units that don't have attack animation. Protoss don't have ground units like that.. except Archon maybe? I think they don't have to stop after attacking.
Also it can be used for scouts and corsairs to not stop after shooting.
Patrol usage for other races is also scouting and micro, but you can make the eraser (irridated vessels flying over bio units) work automaticly with it, you patrol the vessels between the two ends of a mineral line. Also the infamous SPINNING OVERLORD GAYNESS.
Waypoints.. if you use waypoints too much in dragoon vs dragoon battle, you can waste shots. So don't overdo it.
WPs can be used to get units out of base when playing Blue Storm like maps where the pathing is just wrong.
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When I use the waypoints in battle with goons, I do actually select just 4 goons to do the targeting. I believe vs tanks its 7 goon shots to 1 tank right(both no upgrades)? I know to not use the entire group, ex 10 goons, to target one marine. That would just be silly.^^ Also, I use goons to target HT in pvp, but I'm not sure about the number, 4 goon shots? 5?
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On May 12 2009 18:24 pRo9aMeR wrote:
When I use the waypoints in battle with goons, I do actually select just 4 goons to do the targeting. I believe vs tanks its 7 goon shots to 1 tank right(both no upgrades)? I know to not use the entire group, ex 10 goons, to target one marine. That would just be silly.^^ Also, I use goons to target HT in pvp, but I'm not sure about the number, 4 goon shots? 5?
Tank 8 shots
HT 7 because it regenerates
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Patrol is also useful if you get melee units like zealots or DT's in their mineral line cause that way they attack only probes not random buildings (ie move zealot in mineral line, patrol click on the other end). They will still attack units instead of probes tho if there are any around.
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way points are good for repairing a mech army
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United States4126 Posts
When engaging a Terran tank line, I've heard of people using shift+click for Zealots (not a whole control group, just 1-3) attacking Tanks so they don't get caught up with attacking Vultures.
I also use waypoints for a worker scouting for expos. Saves you a bit of work if you're too preoccupied doing other things.
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I use waypoints for labor saving, for example early game in a 4 player map to scout the other three bases, and later to scout for potential expos.
I never really use patrol except sometimes with obs or when microing
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Waypoints are useful for terran/zerg Drops. To load dropships/ovies, click 12 units and shift-click dropships/ovies. Also useful for unloading. Waypoint the dropships/ovies, so they move around, while you individually click each dropship/ovie and unload-self (click U, and click the dropship/ovie), so the dropship/ovie will unload as its moving over empty terrain. This is useful sometimes, as sometimes unload doesnt work depending on how many units are underneath. You can also just use patrol while unloading, but then you won't get a desired path.
I've never tried this before, but come to think of it, it might be useful for high templar drops. You can waypoint the shuttle, so that after it unloads a high templar, it keeps moving, turns 180 back, and comes back to the templar, to pick it up, while you are busy storming.
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patrol + clicking on a burrowed unit will have the unit stand directly on top of the burrowed unit before patrolling back. This is useful for stacking burrowed units (i.e. Hoejja on Destination).
(right clicking or move + clicking will only move close to the burrowed unit, instead of directly on top)
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On May 14 2009 15:14 Ry-Masta-T wrote:
patrol + clicking on a burrowed unit will have the unit stand directly on top of the burrowed unit before patrolling back. This is useful for stacking burrowed units (i.e. Hoejja on Destination).
(right clicking or move + clicking will only move close to the burrowed unit, instead of directly on top)
Wow good to know, I usually just right click a hundred times till it moves.
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I always snipe templars with vultures using waypoints.
Scan protoss army, select vulture and shift click all his templar one after the other, and go do something else. As vulture cost virtually nothing compared to HT, it's a very good deal even if you suicide a couple of vulture for each templars.
I also use shift move to scout when I want my scv to go a specific way: for example to avoid my opponent's army without microing it all the way. Same for vulture raid.
I use scan to scout late game and to micro vultures.
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On May 14 2009 15:14 Ry-Masta-T wrote:
patrol + clicking on a burrowed unit will have the unit stand directly on top of the burrowed unit before patrolling back. This is useful for stacking burrowed units (i.e. Hoejja on Destination).
(right clicking or move + clicking will only move close to the burrowed unit, instead of directly on top)
Right click/move makes the unit go directly on top as long as you first make the unit come very close to the burrowed unit before giving the right click/move onto the burrowed unit.
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I use waypoints in big muta vs gols battles. I want them to focus fire but waiting untill the target died and clicking on a new target for each group isnt that effectiv I think.
I shift+click on about 3-5 gols for each group and go marco then. I'm not sure if thats the best way to do this. I'm of course talking about battles where I want to engage the gols straight up.
Any comments on that?
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I've heared that some terrans use shift-click vs tosses when fighting.
Select tanks and shift-click spam over goons, so that the tanks don't shoot on zealots (becouse the splash kills vults and other tanks). Then the vults take care of zealots.
It really depends on your vult-tank ratio (it's more suited for mass vult-low tank imo), but it's a nice trick - I use it here and there and it does pretty well.
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On May 14 2009 20:22 quirinus wrote:
I've heared that some terrans use shift-click vs tosses when fighting.
Select tanks and shift-click spam over goons, so that the tanks don't shoot on zealots (becouse the splash kills vults and other tanks). Then the vults take care of zealots.
It really depends on your vult-tank ratio (it's more suited for mass vult-low tank imo), but it's a nice trick - I use it here and there and it does pretty well.
Yeah this is useful, I recommend it.
When a patrolling unit encounters an enemy unit it will engage it and if it wins it will go back to patrolling the same route, very useful for vultures patrolling between expansions because they'll hunt any probes down and then keep going.
By using patrol instead of move with shuttles, observers and possibly some other air units you can get it to turn round faster, very nice for when your observer encounters a turret and wants to escape with minimal damage.
Shift click is also very useful for repairing bunches of units, scouting the map with your worker early game and sending your dropship home as soon as it's unloaded its units.
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On May 15 2009 07:37 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2009 20:22 quirinus wrote:
I've heared that some terrans use shift-click vs tosses when fighting.
Select tanks and shift-click spam over goons, so that the tanks don't shoot on zealots (becouse the splash kills vults and other tanks). Then the vults take care of zealots.
It really depends on your vult-tank ratio (it's more suited for mass vult-low tank imo), but it's a nice trick - I use it here and there and it does pretty well. Yeah this is useful, I recommend it. When a patrolling unit encounters an enemy unit it will engage it and if it wins it will go back to patrolling the same route, very useful for vultures patrolling between expansions because they'll hunt any probes down and then keep going. By using patrol instead of move with shuttles, observers and possibly some other air units you can get it to turn round faster, very nice for when your observer encounters a turret and wants to escape with minimal damage. Shift click is also very useful for repairing bunches of units, scouting the map with your worker early game and sending your dropship home as soon as it's unloaded its units.
That's silly. All your tank will fire at the same goon. When it'll be dead, they will all fire another goon. etc... You don't want to kill goons one by one. Plus tanks are extremely usefull against zealots when they approach.
If your tanks are engaged with zealot and you don't want them to destroyd each other you have to clone them and fire goons. But that needs high apm.
Shift click is usefull only to snipe several templars after a scan. Your vulture can cross half of the map without you doing anything in order to kill the templars, that's quite funny.
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On May 15 2009 07:45 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 07:37 jello_biafra wrote:On May 14 2009 20:22 quirinus wrote:
I've heared that some terrans use shift-click vs tosses when fighting.
Select tanks and shift-click spam over goons, so that the tanks don't shoot on zealots (becouse the splash kills vults and other tanks). Then the vults take care of zealots.
It really depends on your vult-tank ratio (it's more suited for mass vult-low tank imo), but it's a nice trick - I use it here and there and it does pretty well. Yeah this is useful, I recommend it. When a patrolling unit encounters an enemy unit it will engage it and if it wins it will go back to patrolling the same route, very useful for vultures patrolling between expansions because they'll hunt any probes down and then keep going. By using patrol instead of move with shuttles, observers and possibly some other air units you can get it to turn round faster, very nice for when your observer encounters a turret and wants to escape with minimal damage. Shift click is also very useful for repairing bunches of units, scouting the map with your worker early game and sending your dropship home as soon as it's unloaded its units. That's silly. All your tank will fire at the same goon. When it'll be dead, they will all fire another goon. etc... You don't want to kill goons one by one. Plus tanks are extremely usefull against zealots when they approach. If your tanks are engaged with zealot and you don't want them to destroyd each other you have to clone them and fire goons. But that needs high apm. Shift click is usefull only to snipe several templars after a scan. Your vulture can cross half of the map without you doing anything in order to kill the templars, that's quite funny.
The splash will kill multiple goons and it will keep the fire off the zealots that are running in amongst your tanks, minimizing the splash damage dealt to yourself. The massive blob of vultures that you have sitting in the middle of your tanks will take care of the zealots with ease.
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On May 12 2009 18:12 freelander wrote:
Also the infamous SPINNING OVERLORD GAYNESS.
I've heard someone else mention this. What is it?
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On May 15 2009 08:40 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 18:12 freelander wrote:
Also the infamous SPINNING OVERLORD GAYNESS.
I've heard someone else mention this. What is it?
It does nothing except for taunting/amusing your opponent, you do it by moving overlord on top of for example other player's nexus and right before the ovie gets there and stops you use patrol directly on the nexus. (I am pretty sure thats how you do it)
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On May 15 2009 08:40 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 18:12 freelander wrote:
Also the infamous SPINNING OVERLORD GAYNESS.
I've heard someone else mention this. What is it?
AFAIK it's when you scout you opponent and put your overlord overtop of one of his buildings(usually town hall) and use the patrol command almost on top of your overlord so it practically spins in one spot. It's just really annoying for the enemy...
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On May 15 2009 08:56 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2009 08:40 deconduo wrote:On May 12 2009 18:12 freelander wrote:
Also the infamous SPINNING OVERLORD GAYNESS.
I've heard someone else mention this. What is it? AFAIK it's when you scout you opponent and put your overlord overtop of one of his buildings(usually town hall) and use the patrol command almost on top of your overlord so it practically spins in one spot. It's just really annoying for the enemy...
In one recent pro ZvZ both players did it  . I think it was between Yarnc and someone on Battle Royale.
EDIT: Actually it was between Hades and Hyun. OVIE SPINNING FTW!!!
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Well as has been said you can't patrol between 3 points. I never utilize that shift+attack command but I probably should try it. I know one area where it's used a lot is TvP. T players use the command to have their siege tanks target goons so they don't waste shots attacking zealots and splashing their own units. This way the tanks kill the goons and mines/vults take care of the zealots.
There is a decent delay is the time it takes a templar to cast its 2nd storm (the spell's cool down time) so if you have the speed to spare you could most likely get better storms off if you didn't just do it on 2 units and instead used each one separately to maximize their effect.
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EPT
