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[G] 150 page BW Guide - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
March 17 2009 21:14 GMT
#21
DON'T HATE, APPRECIATE
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
March 17 2009 21:27 GMT
#22
On March 18 2009 06:14 YPang wrote:
DON'T HATE, APPRECIATE

this
cw)minsean(ru
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
March 17 2009 21:37 GMT
#23
Appreciate plagiarism? :O
Hi.
liger13
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1060 Posts
March 17 2009 21:43 GMT
#24
0.o
I feel like pwning noobs
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
March 17 2009 21:50 GMT
#25
On March 18 2009 06:37 d(O.o)a wrote:
Appreciate plagiarism? :O


If thats all you got out of this 150 guide is plagiarism, you're truly amazing...
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
March 17 2009 21:51 GMT
#26
shockwaves guide still holds true! PCKJ FIGHTING
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
March 17 2009 22:06 GMT
#27
My bad.. I misread part of that abomination of copypasta, credit was given to TwoTimer from blizzforums.com for that part I mentioned earlier.

I understand the guide had good intentions, but it's such an unorganized collection and full of some mix of good, borderline, and bad advice that I don't see much benefit in reading the whole thing. I skimmed it and most of the guides are already stickies here on TL
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
March 17 2009 22:19 GMT
#28
On March 18 2009 06:07 Carnac wrote:
That's not an excuse for not crediting the work of others, no matter how you word it -.-


I'm not trying to downplay or make excuses for why other peoples work here isn't credited properly, which is kind of what you're inferring by saying, "not matter how you word it." As far as I know, it was just supposed to be a collection of all the strategy guides that new players would find useful; a convenient place that you can read all of it without having to navigate to different sites and pages.

If a friend of mine is just asking for information on some topic and I cut and paste some good information from a website, I don't write a bibliography with it as well. I just paste it to him and say there you go, and that's what I think this was supposed to be.

Like I said, I didn't write or compile it.
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-17 22:26:20
March 17 2009 22:23 GMT
#29
I don't think you should have posted the guide without first getting Salv or Iruian's consent because as far as I know they were pretty reluctant for the TL population to read any of their guides at all. Looks like Salv doesn't have a problem with it though and... are you TT1? So I guess if a high level player says its a nice guide then it must be good. Personally I haven't read any of it yet and it's looks HUGE, hopefully TL likes it though.

Ya it looks a bit outdated and all, and personally I don't think you learn nearly as uch from guides than from first hand experience and from watching replays with someone telling you how to fix your gameplay, but yeah looks like people are finding it useful.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-17 22:31:14
March 17 2009 22:29 GMT
#30
For fuck sake Suppy lol, read what I posted. I don't have a problem with this and I really don't understand what the big deal is, to be honest. Read my friend example in my last post, I think that's how this was intended. Plagiarism is passing off work as your own and I know that wasn't Iruian's intention, and as I am quite sure everyone's name is in there if some of their work is C&Pasted. There isn't a fucking bibliography or works cited page, but I don't think that's necessary either.

Regardless though, I didn't have anything to do with compiling or writing this guide, other then having some of my work C&Pasted into it, which I am fine with. I just don't want my name on this or associated with it, because people are shitting all over this.

EDIT: I just skimmed through it, SkyGlow, TwoTimer, Chill, Myself & others are all credited as the original writers. So someone enlighten me as to what the problem is?
azndsh
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4447 Posts
March 17 2009 22:47 GMT
#31
shockwave[xpow]'s guide to beginning starcraft is pretty much the single most important thing ever written on learning the game, and I didn't see his name anywhere
Superiorwolf
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States5509 Posts
March 17 2009 22:49 GMT
#32
On March 18 2009 07:29 Salv wrote:
For fuck sake Suppy lol, read what I posted. I don't have a problem with this and I really don't understand what the big deal is, to be honest. Read my friend example in my last post, I think that's how this was intended. Plagiarism is passing off work as your own and I know that wasn't Iruian's intention, and as I am quite sure everyone's name is in there if some of their work is C&Pasted. There isn't a fucking bibliography or works cited page, but I don't think that's necessary either.

Regardless though, I didn't have anything to do with compiling or writing this guide, other then having some of my work C&Pasted into it, which I am fine with. I just don't want my name on this or associated with it, because people are shitting all over this.

EDIT: I just skimmed through it, SkyGlow, TwoTimer, Chill, Myself & others are all credited as the original writers. So someone enlighten me as to what the problem is?

What are you talking about? I mentioned nothing about plagiarism. I was merely saying that last time I tried to get you to post a guide on TL you were sooooo reluctant to do it. Apparently the TL population scares you.
Check out my stream at www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315053 and follow me on Twitter @EGSuppy! :)
Phearlock
Profile Joined December 2007
Norway400 Posts
March 17 2009 22:49 GMT
#33
I'm going to guess a lot of people just missed the fact that is was credited to the original authors. Because as you said it is a bit messy in some places.

I haven't found the time to go through all 150 pages yet but I like it so far. Will bookmark it for easy access to all the guides included in it. =) Thanks for sharing really. And yeah I really think most of the hating in this thread is from misunderstandings.
Clasic
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
March 17 2009 22:49 GMT
#34
Just got done reading it... Whoa.
No no no no its not mine!
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
March 17 2009 22:50 GMT
#35
On March 18 2009 07:23 Superiorwolf wrote:
So I guess if a high level player says its a nice guide then it must be good.


[image loading]


Can you spot the fallacy?

crap I shouldnt have converted it to jpeg now its almost unreadable
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17296 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-17 23:33:50
March 17 2009 23:33 GMT
#36
On March 18 2009 07:50 Frits wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2009 07:23 Superiorwolf wrote:
So I guess if a high level player says its a nice guide then it must be good.


--- cut ---

Can you spot the fallacy?

crap I shouldnt have converted it to jpeg now its almost unreadable


Let me help you on this one.

+ Show Spoiler [Logical Fallacies in Alphabetical Order] +

Ad hominem
An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter anothers claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself. True believers will often commit this fallacy by countering the arguments of skeptics by stating that skeptics are closed minded. Skeptics, on the other hand, may fall into the trap of dismissing the claims of UFO believers, for example, by stating that people who believe in UFO's are crazy or stupid.

Ad ignorantiam
The argument from ignorance basically states that a specific belief is true because we don't know that it isn't true. Defenders of extrasensory perception, for example, will often overemphasize how much we do not know about the human brain. UFO proponents will often argue that an object sighted in the sky is unknown, and therefore it is an alien spacecraft.

Argument from authority
Stating that a claim is true because a person or group of perceived authority says it is true. Often this argument is implied by emphasizing the many years of experience, or the formal degrees held by the individual making a specific claim. It is reasonable to give more credence to the claims of those with the proper background, education, and credentials, or to be suspicious of the claims of someone making authoritative statements in an area for which they cannot demonstrate expertise. But the truth of a claim should ultimately rest on logic and evidence, not the authority of the person promoting it.

Argument from final Consequences
Such arguments (also called teleological) are based on a reversal of cause and effect, because they argue that something is caused by the ultimate effect that it has, or purpose that is serves. For example: God must exist, because otherwise life would have no meaning.

Argument from Personal Incredulity
I cannot explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true. Creationists are fond of arguing that they cannot imagine the complexity of life resulting from blind evolution, but that does not mean life did not evolve.

Confusing association with causation
This is similar to the post-hoc fallacy in that it assumes cause and effect for two variables simply because they are correlated, although the relationship here is not strictly that of one variable following the other in time. This fallacy is often used to give a statistical correlation a causal interpretation. For example, during the 1990's both religious attendance and illegal drug use have been on the rise. It would be a fallacy to conclude that therefore, religious attendance causes illegal drug use. It is also possible that drug use leads to an increase in religious attendance, or that both drug use and religious attendance are increased by a third variable, such as an increase in societal unrest. It is also possible that both variables are independent of one another, and it is mere coincidence that they are both increasing at the same time. A corollary to this is the invocation of this logical fallacy to argue that an association does not represent causation, rather it is more accurate to say that correlation does not necessarily mean causation, but it can. Also, multiple independent correlations can point reliably to a causation, and is a reasonable line of argument.

Confusing currently unexplained with unexplainable
Because we do not currently have an adequate explanation for a phenomenon does not mean that it is forever unexplainable, or that it therefore defies the laws of nature or requires a paranormal explanation. An example of this is the "God of the Gapsâ" strategy of creationists that whatever we cannot currently explain is unexplainable and was therefore an act of god.

False Continuum
The idea that because there is no definitive demarcation line between two extremes, that the distinction between the extremes is not real or meaningful: There is a fuzzy line between cults and religion, therefore they are really the same thing.

False Dichotomy
Arbitrarily reducing a set of many possibilities to only two. For example, evolution is not possible, therefore we must have been created (assumes these are the only two possibilities). This fallacy can also be used to oversimplify a continuum of variation to two black and white choices. For example, science and pseudoscience are not two discrete entities, but rather the methods and claims of all those who attempt to explain reality fall along a continuum from one extreme to the other.

Inconsistency
Applying criteria or rules to one belief, claim, argument, or position but not to others. For example, some consumer advocates argue that we need stronger regulation of prescription drugs to ensure their safety and effectiveness, but at the same time argue that medicinal herbs should be sold with no regulation for either safety or effectiveness.

Non-Sequitur
In Latin this term translates to "doesn't follow". This refers to an argument in which the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premises. In other words, a logical connection is implied where none exists.

Post-hoc ergo propter hoc
This fallacy follows the basic format of: A preceded B, therefore A caused B, and therefore assumes cause and effect for two events just because they are temporally related (the latin translates to "after this, therefore because of this").

Reductio ad absurdum
In formal logic, the reductio ad absurdum is a legitimate argument. It follows the form that if the premises are assumed to be true it necessarily leads to an absurd (false) conclusion and therefore one or more premises must be false. The term is now often used to refer to the abuse of this style of argument, by stretching the logic in order to force an absurd conclusion. For example a UFO enthusiast once argued that if I am skeptical about the existence of alien visitors, I must also be skeptical of the existence of the Great Wall of China, since I have not personally seen either. This is a false reductio ad absurdum because he is ignoring evidence other than personal eyewitness evidence, and also logical inference. In short, being skeptical of UFO's does not require rejecting the existence of the Great Wall.

Slippery Slope
This logical fallacy is the argument that a position is not consistent or tenable because accepting the position means that the extreme of the position must also be accepted. But moderate positions do not necessarily lead down the slippery slope to the extreme.

Special pleading, or ad-hoc reasoning
This is a subtle fallacy which is often difficult to recognize. In essence, it is the arbitrary introduction of new elements into an argument in order to fix them so that they appear valid. A good example of this is the ad-hoc dismissal of negative test results. For example, one might point out that ESP has never been demonstrated under adequate test conditions, therefore ESP is not a genuine phenomenon. Defenders of ESP have attempted to counter this argument by introducing the arbitrary premise that ESP does not work in the presence of skeptics. This fallacy is often taken to ridiculous extremes, and more and more bizarre ad hoc elements are added to explain experimental failures or logical inconsistencies.

Straw Man
Arguing against a position which you create specifically to be easy to argue against, rather than the position actually held by those who oppose your point of view.

Tautology
tautology is an argument that utilizes circular reasoning, which means that the conclusion is also its own premise. The structure of such arguments is A=B therefore A=B, although the premise and conclusion might be formulated differently so it is not immediately apparent as such. For example, saying that therapeutic touch works because it manipulates the life force is a tautology because the definition of therapeutic touch is the alleged manipulation (without touching) of the life force.

The Moving Goalpost
A method of denial arbitrarily moving the criteria for "proof" or acceptance out of range of whatever evidence currently exists.

Tu quoque
Literally, you too. This is an attempt to justify wrong action because someone else also does it. "My evidence may be invalid, but so is yours."

Unstated Major Premise
This fallacy occurs when one makes an argument which assumes a premise which is not explicitly stated. For example, arguing that we should label food products with their cholesterol content because Americans have high cholesterol assumes that: 1) cholesterol in food causes high serum cholesterol; 2) labeling will reduce consumption of cholesterol; and 3) that having a high serum cholesterol is unhealthy. This fallacy is also sometimes called begging the question.

Source: http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
jonnosferatu
Profile Joined February 2009
United States22 Posts
March 18 2009 03:24 GMT
#37
@ Manit0u -

I love you.
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
March 18 2009 04:33 GMT
#38
Good god this is amazing. Might take me awhile to find relevent answers to specific queries, but I'm just in awe. Very nice, even if it is primarily a compilation of old guides.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-18 06:01:08
March 18 2009 05:56 GMT
#39
Just chiming in to respond to the plagiarism accusations.

This guide (which is essentially a big collection of smaller guides) was compiled by Iruian and Salv for the grand purpose of consolidating a great deal of Strategy information. It's a many-year-old project that is, even to this day, under construction. (The age of the file also contributes to much of the outdated information.)

Neither Salv, Iruian, nor anyone affiliated with SC2GG has published this guide and called it their own. The proper construction and presentation of all this information is and has been an on-going project at SC2GG, and until it is complete, it will not officially be published by anyone associated with SC2GG.

I don't think anyone (like Salv/Iruian) has any qualms with the OP making this post, but calling "plagiarism" when the document hasn't been presented as finished is a little bit ridiculous.

When it's done, all the proper credits and citations will be in place.

Until then, I humbly ask that you guys

DON'T HATE, APPRECIATE


HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
March 18 2009 06:06 GMT
#40
On March 18 2009 06:07 Carnac wrote:
That's not an excuse for not crediting the work of others, no matter how you word it -.-

"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
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