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[PGR Trans] Tips for Zerg beginners

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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AloneInDaBunker
Profile Joined November 2008
Korea (South)123 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-24 19:25:18
December 24 2008 16:46 GMT
#1
I decided to start with the easiest and simplest to translate so I translated a post containing tips for zerg beginners. This author claimed to be a noob but he said he was noob compared to PGR members. I saw some comments that appreciated this post on PGR so I wish this translation helps some of you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Name The Greatest Hits

Subject [Z vs T] Tips for Zerg Noobs


1. Hatchery
Fate of Zerg lies on “lava”.
The fact that Zerg has more flexibility compared to other races is due to its 3 ‘fixed’ lavas. 10 Hatcheries produce 60 zerglings at a time, but given that Zerg usually has at most 3 hatcheries in early stage vs Terran, even one “forgotten lava” is very self-destructive. Especially after mid stage of game, the zerg ends up with excessive unused resources even with very few missed lavas. So it is essential to produce “constantly” using all lavas. In addition, placing hatchery in twin position will increase mining efficiency. Hatcheries for army production is advised to be placed close together. This allows Ctrl+lava and prevents unused lava frequently seen in remote hatcheries around the map.

2. About # of drones
One thing good about Zerg compared to Protoss and Terran is that “A lot at once” is possible. The reason Terran and Protoss have to produce scvs and probes endlessly is not to mine resources better, but to quickly utilize resources from new expo. However, Zerg seldom overproduces its workers. All Zerg needs to do is produce drones from three hatches once and fill the new expo. Since drones build buildings, you will often find your expo filled with more drones and your main base lacking them. Try to produce limited number of drones when producing your army to prevent this.

3. Placement of Overlords
One thing that makes Zerg better than Terran is the fact that Overlords can fly around (although it’s turtle speed). In case of Python, as the version upgraded to 1.03, there are now walls. Overlord placed over it will stress Terran. Important thing is to send one ov over the wall and one near mineral. After early stage, place them where it is easy for your opponent to drop attack. Placing an ov near mineral becomes handy especially when you need your drones to click on remote mineral and attack against your opponent attempting cheese or bunker.

4. Always try to build minimum sunkens
When your opponent is one rax double, you can easily defend with zerglings and drones. Two sunkens equal one hatchery equals 6 drones. Two sunkens not built to produce drones instead will make it very hard to lose economic battle against Terran. The bravery in front of marines ~! This will brighten the future of Zerg.

5. The focus of zergling+lurker control is zergling, not lurkers.
Charging 1a2a lurker zergling accomplishes nothing but making marines retreat a small distance. It is better to divide zergling and lurkers to make lurkers run in front while zerglings surround marines from behind and move attack. This deals more damage. Remember the main part of July’s ling+lurk control was zergling, not lurkers.

6. Lurker control Tip
Burrowing lurker group altogether as if sieging a group of tanks will make you lose. When charging with lurker group, it is important to shift click on each lurker to burrow those in appropriate position. If you got a slow hand, ctrl+lurker will select lurkers in screen. Pressing U after that will make lurkers that are not on screen to run forward. Press U again on these running lurkers. This will prevent lurkers to stand still when intense battle takes place. Place two lurkers in expos in starting points. I advise against stop lurkers for beginners since you will have to pay too much attention to it.

7. Killing opponent's army with mutal is not an easy thing
People are used to seeing Jaedong’s mutal control but it is better for beginners to just scout around enemy base and pick off isolated units. It is already a pressure for terran just to see mutals flying around their base.

8. Fast Hive build is a build with many weaknesses.
Hive tech can be achieved quickly to produce defiler as early as on 9 minute into the game. Even 8 minute is possible if expo is given up. However, this is highly vulnerable to tanks coming out from two facts rushing with a vessel. Existence of defiler means very little without supporting army. Therefore, I suggest grasping your opponent’s intention before going fast Hive build. First build your army and give Terran an impression that you will attack their base if they dare to progress their army.

Boxer is the truth.
AloneInDaBunker
Profile Joined November 2008
Korea (South)123 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-24 17:04:50
December 24 2008 16:54 GMT
#2
Will do more translation of longer and more complex ones later.
Boxer is the truth.
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
December 24 2008 16:56 GMT
#3
Good Stuff, keep it up!

P.S. I think you should translate the replies as well. When they debate, they get into details wayyyy more than the topic itself sometimes, posting their replays and all. Great job nevertheless!!
Agavond
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
448 Posts
December 24 2008 17:00 GMT
#4
Aww. So you decided not to do my request? jk. Thanks for translating though because I'm beginning to learn how to play zerg.
O.oSins Since Op Cal
AloneInDaBunker
Profile Joined November 2008
Korea (South)123 Posts
December 24 2008 17:06 GMT
#5
I got a pm from somebody to do zerg although I doubt this beginner tip will satisfy him. I'll eventually translate others too, including yours. BTW wut race did u want?
Boxer is the truth.
Agavond
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
448 Posts
December 24 2008 17:11 GMT
#6
OMFG I LOVE YOU SOO MUCH!!! Because I really wanted to get that flash build to a perfect science as well as the using more dropships against toss.
O.oSins Since Op Cal
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
December 24 2008 17:17 GMT
#7
Argh, I need advanced chogu tips...
drone
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
70 Posts
December 24 2008 17:25 GMT
#8
On December 25 2008 01:46 AloneInDaBunker wrote:
The bravery in front of marines ~! This will brighten the future of Zerg.

haha, cute~

thanks!
마재윤
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
December 24 2008 17:31 GMT
#9
I love all these translations, this is great
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
GearitUP
Profile Joined November 2008
United States337 Posts
December 24 2008 17:41 GMT
#10
Heh cool, I been a protoss user forever and starting to learn zerg now, this helps a bit thx for the post.
Own<Owned<Ownt<Pwn<Pwned<PwnT< YOU NEWB!
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
December 24 2008 17:51 GMT
#11
Awesome thanks alot
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
December 24 2008 17:51 GMT
#12
Protoss translations would be great! This bit opened up a new perspective for me, so it was really great, thanks!
PiSan
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States160 Posts
December 24 2008 18:27 GMT
#13
Very nice translation. Thanks for this!
gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
December 24 2008 18:51 GMT
#14
i'm not a zerg user but that guide was ridiculousy helpful. i feel like i can go kick some A korean ass on iccup.


just feel like it. not saying i'll be able to. in fact i'm not even going to try.
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
December 24 2008 19:00 GMT
#15
awesome
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Flopgun
Profile Joined August 2005
Germany274 Posts
December 24 2008 19:15 GMT
#16
These are the noob tips? The gosu tips must be awesome, pls translate more
Jaedong fighting
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
December 24 2008 19:46 GMT
#17
Great job, appreciated!
We make signature, then defense it.
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
December 24 2008 19:54 GMT
#18
This is really nice; big thanks for translating. We all appreciate it!

Shouldn't this be in strat. though?
lxginverse
Profile Joined May 2008
Monaco1506 Posts
December 24 2008 20:04 GMT
#19
thanks a lot ^^
fromis_9 enjoyer
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
December 24 2008 20:06 GMT
#20
The Korean level of discourse of SC strategy seems so much higher than the foreign one, I hope to see more awesome translations in the future. ;D
funkie
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Venezuela9377 Posts
December 24 2008 20:13 GMT
#21
Thanks a lot~
CJ Entusman #6! · Strength is the basis of athletic ability. -Rippetoe /* http://j.mp/TL-App <- TL iPhone App 2.0! */
akm4
Profile Joined November 2006
Canada71 Posts
December 24 2008 20:23 GMT
#22
thanks appreciate it.!
InfeSteD
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States4658 Posts
December 24 2008 21:18 GMT
#23
really cool
w/e
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
December 24 2008 21:27 GMT
#24
On December 25 2008 01:46 AloneInDaBunker wrote:
...
4. Always try to build minimum sunkens
When your opponent is one rax double, you can easily defend with zerglings and drones. Two sunkens equal one hatchery equals 6 drones. Two sunkens not built to produce drones instead will make it very hard to lose economic battle against Terran. The bravery in front of marines ~! This will brighten the future of Zerg.
...

I 100% disagree with this, two sunkens = 20 drones.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Tropics
Profile Joined August 2007
United Kingdom1132 Posts
December 24 2008 21:33 GMT
#25
ive read the lurker control part about 7 times now and i still have no idea what it means

can anyone explain?
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
December 24 2008 21:56 GMT
#26
I think the lurker part basically means, use your zerglings to cut off the retreat path of the M&M, this ensures that the lurker can do their part. When he says that July's zerglings is what made his ZvT good, he means he made sure that the M&M could never get away.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
December 25 2008 07:09 GMT
#27
wow, amazing thread
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Azrael1111
Profile Joined July 2008
United States550 Posts
December 25 2008 07:49 GMT
#28
On December 25 2008 06:56 Salv wrote:
I think the lurker part basically means, use your zerglings to cut off the retreat path of the M&M, this ensures that the lurker can do their part. When he says that July's zerglings is what made his ZvT good, he means he made sure that the M&M could never get away.


Na, hes definitely saying something different here.
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
December 25 2008 08:55 GMT
#29
Thanks for the translations. it is appreciated
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
December 25 2008 09:04 GMT
#30
Good work, very good work.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Braintricks
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
137 Posts
December 25 2008 09:05 GMT
#31
Very cool. Thank you!
goddamn nerd rappers
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
December 25 2008 09:07 GMT
#32
Great. Greeeeeeat.

AloneInDaBunker please give us some translation of TvT strategies. It is so very complex would like to know some korean views of that matchup!
<3
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-25 09:23:49
December 25 2008 09:21 GMT
#33
On December 25 2008 01:46 AloneInDaBunker wrote:
5. The focus of zergling+lurker control is zergling, not lurkers.
Charging 1a2a lurker zergling accomplishes nothing but making marines retreat a small distance. It is better to divide zergling and lurkers to make lurkers run in front while zerglings surround marines from behind and move attack. This deals more damage. Remember the main part of July’s ling+lurk control was zergling, not lurkers.

6. Lurker control Tip
Burrowing lurker group altogether as if sieging a group of tanks will make you lose. When charging with lurker group, it is important to shift click on each lurker to burrow those in appropriate position. If you got a slow hand, ctrl+lurker will select lurkers in screen. Pressing U after that will make lurkers that are not on screen to run forward. Press U again on these running lurkers. This will prevent lurkers to stand still when intense battle takes place. Place two lurkers in expos in starting points. I advise against stop lurkers for beginners since you will have to pay too much attention to it.


I kinda disagree with these 2 points.

With the first one, while the flanking with zerglings is indeed the most important part, that is usually done prior to battle. The toughest and most micro intensive part is actually the handling of the lurkers. Even the running past the marines and attacking them with zerglings requires about 2 mouse clicks for each group of zerglings you have and not even precise clicks. However for lurkers, burrowing/unburrowing to catch up with the running terran or burrowing only the front lurkers to place all of them in range of his stationary army is a whole different story. Defilers and scourges may also not as important as the zerglings but are harder. You need to focus more on these units.

Also, while yes, the ideal way to attack with lurkerling is to have zerglings which completely surround the marines, you never want to leave your lurkers without any lings close to them or the marines will actually kill the lurkers and escape through there rather easily.

With the second point, i dont even understand what youre trying to say with the shift click but using ctrl + left click on the lurker itself right from the start is a bad idea, youre better off just using the hotkey and pressing "u" since if you want the former way to work, you actually need to have your screen set up so that you cant see at least half of your lurkers, which also means you will not see half of the rest of your army which usually includes scourges and defilers.

So im gonna try to explain as best as i can the way i think its best to handle lurkers.

Your lurkers are coming close to the terran, you use your mouse to drag select (with a box) the front lurkers, you will most likely select some zerglings too, so to be able to burrow.those lurkers you have to ctrl-left click on any lurker drawing on the lower part of the screen, which i will call the "selected group box" for clarity.

The rest of the lurkers will keep moving, and if you want to move them even farther, you can use the hotkey + your usual right click while the burrow animation is still going, however if you keep ordering your whole group to move (even the burrowed ones) you will actually prevent the burrowed ones from attacking, so then you may need to do some more of the action i described in the previous paragraph, especially if your lurkers start splitting in 2 groups and surrounding the terran, which sometimes happens.

If you are fast, you can spam right click on a marine who is in a sweet spot while having the burrowing lurkers selected, if you click right when the animation finishes, the luker will actually fire a little fast than usual.

Now, some of the lurkers are fully burrowed your ctrl+left clicks on a burrowed lurker will select only all the burrowed lurkers you can see, same goes for the unburrowed lurks if you click on one, so rinse and repeat those last steps with the still running lurkers.

If the already burrowed lurkers are suddenly out of range then you will repeat the same technique i just described. You drag-select the lurkers you wanna unburrow or just ctrl-left click on one of them if you wanna unburrow all, ctrl+left click one of them in the "selected group box" to remove any other unwanted units unburrow and then you can start moving them asap since the animation to unburrow is like instantaneous.

Thats basically it, takes a lot of practice and some speed, the scourges come somwhere between where most of your lurkers are burrowed and all of them are burrowed. The defilers and zerglings are used when the lurkers are still running.



If you have trouble cloning scourges because you are slow, then just spread them somewhat before the fight, just not too much since you want them to keep their formation when they move, then you will move them past the vessels but they have to pass over them and when they are over them you can just attack move wherever.

If you are fighting lots of tanks with few vessels, you want your lurkers to burrow as close to the tanks as possible, since they are the most dangerous, if you kill them, you usually nulify the terrans attack even if most of the marines are still alive.

If you are fighting lots of vessels with few tanks(1-3), forget about the tanks since the terran will usually just use them to soak up damage if you burrow lurkers next to them (defensive matrix and all that), you want to kill marines with those lurkers, also if the terran retreats and leaves his tanks behind, they will die easily to your zerglings.

A bit confusing i know, but i hope it helps.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7584 Posts
December 25 2008 09:52 GMT
#34
Thank you very much for this thread.

Please continue to do these.

God, there are so many people that contribute so much on tl.net lately.

I need to do something =(.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
December 25 2008 10:04 GMT
#35
Oh and about the whole make as little sunkens as possible thing. Thats only really important at the beginning of the game, its much cheaper to maka 4 lings when your spawning pool is done than a sunken asap.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
ramen247
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1256 Posts
December 25 2008 14:01 GMT
#36
On December 25 2008 06:56 Salv wrote:
I think the lurker part basically means, use your zerglings to cut off the retreat path of the M&M, this ensures that the lurker can do their part. When he says that July's zerglings is what made his ZvT good, he means he made sure that the M&M could never get away.


no. he meant with a lurkling army, the lurks are meat sheilds while the lings are the ones that actually kill stuff.
i hate this ugly firebat. i want a marine.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
December 25 2008 15:00 GMT
#37
The lurkers are NEVER meatshields its completely the other way around. and zerglings are only the main source of damage if you have very few lurkers, like 3.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
NotSupporting
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1998 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-25 15:35:46
December 25 2008 15:35 GMT
#38
On December 25 2008 05:06 Jyvblamo wrote:
The Korean level of discourse of SC strategy seems so much higher than the foreign one, I hope to see more awesome translations in the future. ;D


Agreed, can't wait for more!
Julmust
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Sweden4867 Posts
December 25 2008 17:30 GMT
#39
this gave me alot of good advice. thanks alot!
AdministratorI'm dancing in the moonlight
AngelOfDeath
Profile Joined October 2008
United States23 Posts
December 25 2008 17:42 GMT
#40
very kewl down to earth basic tips.
Vivi57
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States6599 Posts
December 25 2008 21:22 GMT
#41
These are awesome.

It's amazing how much strategy never makes it to here from korean sites.
Flash hwaiting! Nal_rA forever!
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-25 21:41:25
December 25 2008 21:36 GMT
#42
Well, its not neatly compiled in a series of points, of which some are pretty obvious and others are wrong. However if you read our threads a little closer you would notice that this is not something only koreans know. Oh and btw, supply depot push to take a 3rd in tvp? come on lol. Their guides are sometimes even crappier than ours.

Of the guides translated here, only the pvz one can compare to one of ours in the recommended threads post.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7584 Posts
December 25 2008 21:48 GMT
#43
Cloud,

I think the players who actually benifit from this are in need of very basic fundemental concepts so small things seem better then more comprehensve guides.

I agree with you I recommend our forum to everybody on iccup who has questions. If there zerg I know if I don't post you will and they will get good help ^^.

Merry Christmas
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 25 2008 23:28 GMT
#44
On December 25 2008 18:07 AnOth3rDAy wrote:
Great. Greeeeeeat.

AloneInDaBunker please give us some translation of TvT strategies. It is so very complex would like to know some korean views of that matchup!
<3


Yeah I agree! TvT is so damn complex in strategies

Plz help!
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
CommanderFluffy
Profile Joined June 2008
Taiwan1059 Posts
December 26 2008 01:32 GMT
#45
MOOOAAR

ZvP Please!!!
Pain is temporary, but glory is forever.
TimmyMac
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada499 Posts
December 26 2008 05:45 GMT
#46
On December 26 2008 10:32 CommanderFluffy wrote:
MOOOAAR

ZvP Please!!!

Watch Jaedong vs Bisu.
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
December 26 2008 05:54 GMT
#47
Cloud, I don't know what you have to gain from arguing with the OP. He's just providing a translation. If you want to make a Zerg versus Terran guide then put it in a separate thread. Anyway great job on the translation OP. Some solid advice there for Zerg beginners.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
December 26 2008 06:17 GMT
#48
I wasnt really arguing with the OP, i was pointing the mistakes the article he translated had, But dont worry, maybe ill write a guide, which will take much more time that the post i made however. After all, 8 paragraphs of obvious and sometimes wrong advice doesnt cut it in this forum does it?
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
parkin
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
1090 Posts
December 26 2008 08:26 GMT
#49
i like these translations alot. thank you
mostly harmless
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
December 26 2008 12:57 GMT
#50
how i wish we have VODs fort these tips,in this way we know how the situation works.
AloneInDaBunker
Profile Joined November 2008
Korea (South)123 Posts
December 26 2008 14:28 GMT
#51
hey cloud some points you pointed out to be obvious might be helpful to less experienced zerg players since the original poster specifically wrote this for beginners to have more competency in game without serious training. I chose to begin with the easiest to translate to get me some momentum into translating more extensive ones. I appreciate all your comments. I'll get started on another one asap. Admins please tell me if I should post next one on strategy forum. Thanks.
Boxer is the truth.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
December 26 2008 14:46 GMT
#52
You dont need permission from anyone to start a new thread dude, just make one if you think its useful, and yes its best if you place it in this forum.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
b3h47pte
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States1317 Posts
December 26 2008 15:05 GMT
#53
Ah very nice. Good post.
DwmC_Foefen
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Belgium2186 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-26 15:35:53
December 26 2008 15:29 GMT
#54
Zerg LAVA lol :p

Good tips I like these kind of threads, thx alot man
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