ya valk just doesnt work marines work for killing interceptors but are so easy to kill, and also have the problem that you then need to upgrade two seperate techs.
I remember on nostalgia going wraith instead of goliath was a serious alternative, possibly even better. there I would go like 5 fact tank/vulture and 3 stargate wraith, 1 armory for each, then you could basically just split the map in half with huge tank line / mines/ turrets/ tanks dropshipped to ledges, (actually with you controlling 7 exps and him only controlling 5) wait for toss to bust out the inevitable carriers or arbiters that he always busts out and come with huge amounts of wraiths. pretty damn hard to counter and I dont think I lost any tvp on nostalgia where I wasnt way behind after early game, although if someone knew it was coming they could just build like 8 sairs with first 8 carriers instead of building 8, then encountering wraiths and getting destroyed and then building sairs.
I dont think ive really seen that be viable on any other land map but im a little out of the loop mapwise. =p
if you already have 2/2 or 3/3 ground upgrades by the time the carrs are out, stick with goli. fast upgrades was pretty much flash's counter to fast carrs on katrina, it's a smart move. If you don't, start considering lockdown and/or cloaked wraiths i guess.
There is a replay in the TSL ladder that is JF vs boxer (his ICCup login two seasons ago was Andromeda 999) in it JF goes carriers and boxer goes wraiths. You are going to be hard pressed to deal with the observers so that you can use the cloak effectively. If you can deal with the observers then it will do the trick. Try medic optic flare micro.
bcs in equal numbers with yamato do beat carriers, at least with 3/3/3 vs 3/3
say, you have 12 bcs vs 12 carriers, 12 yamatos leave 6 carriers, you can actually just hold position with all bcs and kill every interceptor pretty quickly. if bcs try to chase carriers, they lose though. and without yamato there will be too many interceptors
UpMagic was moderately successful, but he lost in the end. It's difficult to capitalize on your gains with wraiths, even if you succeed at killing the carriers. However, this game shows that it's playable, and that even an S-class progamer can be caught with his pants down, sending carriers without observers.
I feel that 3-3 goliaths are much more effective though. I like how they can fry up the interceptors really well which leaves the carriers like "flying paperweights".
Wraiths are like.. an element of surprise kinda thing. I think like what they said before, the amount of tech you have to go through to make them and all that resources just isn't as worth it because you already have a goliath tech ready. Unless you're pretty certain you can get up a cloaked wraith fleet and the P hardly has any observers. Or you could just be BoxeR for that game and do a blindspot
On November 28 2008 09:21 ShmotZ wrote: 3-3-3 wraiths are seriously nice @_@
heres a rep of a ffa me and some clan mates did where i made 3-3-3 wraiths, and really in the right situations, wraiths all the way upgraded are just imba lol + Show Spoiler +
On November 28 2008 11:19 LuckyFool wrote: Wraiths are more effective but if he knows you going wraiths to counter and has 8+ obs and some sairs you'll be in big trouble.
Switch to pure Goliaths. He'll have wasted over 1000 minerals/gas and have 3-4 less carriers. The bluff might just work in your favor.
frankly, you do not want your opponent to make sairs together with his carriers even if youre going goliath dweb is definitely a worthwhile investment, you often see protoss harassing terran with carriers and there being like a 2-dweb large area where goliaths can shoot from 12 carriers kill a lot of shit in the duration of 1 dweb
Yes, Wraiths is almost exclusivy only good when ur enemy don't know about it. But never use em' without clocking, of course.Unless ur panic and he's force is real small. And always make ur wraiths where he won't find them that easily. Save up ur air force till ur rdy to attack due to he's number I'd say 2 wraiths on each carrier, correct me if im wrong. Also upg the 50 energy, ur gonna need it if ur wraiths surive if he dosent die from the first attack. Going wraith is a little bit like do or die. It's risky but doable. Don't forget the fact that they can reach the carriers anywhere without being haressed as the goliaths would be, since they can go anywhere on the map. Maps with many obstacals as mountains, upper or down levels and lakes where goiaths cant move or see. I recommend in this scenoris and that if u r stocked up with alot of minerals and gas to go wraiths with thier every ability they can have. Other than that I would recommend you to always use goliaths as same reason as most ppl say here.
it could be a good suprise to catch him off guard, and your units mobility wouldn't be limited by the terrain but if he see's you massing wraiths all he has to do is put down another robo fact and keep like 4-6 obs with his carriers in a big jumble. it is damn hard to snipe all those in a group of carriers and even if you had the precision wraiths die really fast to carriers. also you would need to upgrade wraiths to deal with his 3-3 cars and upgrading to 3-3 wraiths isn't really a surprise. long term wraiths vs long term cars = lose in most cases.
On November 28 2008 11:37 ZeKk wrote: Yes, Wraiths is almost exclusivy only good when ur enemy don't know about it. But never use em' without clocking, of course.Unless ur panic and he's force is real small. And always make ur wraiths where he won't find them that easily. Save up ur air force till ur rdy to attack due to he's number I'd say 2 wraiths on each carrier, correct me if im wrong. Also upg the 50 energy, ur gonna need it if ur wraiths surive if he dosent die from the first attack. Going wraith is a little bit like do or die. It's risky but doable. Don't forget the fact that they can reach the carriers anywhere without being haressed as the goliaths would be, since they can go anywhere on the map. Maps with many obstacals as mountains, upper or down levels and lakes where goiaths cant move or see. I recommend in this scenoris and that if u r stocked up with alot of minerals and gas to go wraiths with thier every ability they can have. Other than that I would recommend you to always use goliaths as same reason as most ppl say here.
Example of map like ZeKk said is Katrina.
Also this is interesting to get energy upgrade first - your still going to do bigger fleet before fighting... oO
Has anyone ever tried using valks to kill the observers instead of attacking the carriers and then using the wraith to cloak and rape the carriers?
I think in theory that would be the sickest shit ever, but since no one has tried that in the last 10 years of this game, I'm probably wrong on the matter.
EPT
