EPTTerran (Goliaths or Wraiths) vs Protoss (Carriers)
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LonelyIslands
Canada590 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
That said though if you catch them off guard then wraiths are a great way to take out the carriers in one fell swoop. | ||
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LonelyIslands
Canada590 Posts
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
The idea being that you pick off observers so that wraiths with cloak can scare the carriers back to cannons or until a new observer. Of course goliath's do more damage though. And don't forget to EMP :D | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28654 Posts
thus +3 attack wraith vs +3 armour carrier deals 19 damage | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13032 Posts
Both are really good counters to carriers. Goliaths are more used but wraiths can be devastating to a carrier army if he didnt see it coming so i guess its little bit risky to go wraiths but if he dont suspect you going wraiths he will lose all carriers with like 8-10 wraiths after you snipe his observers . You have one more option to go heavy tank vult army with support of marines and medics. They kill all the interceptors and carriers are useless (this is more of a humiliation tactic but have seen it in serious games too) PS I need to buy few donkeys for my wheel cuz my connection is horible theese days the old ones are too slow and old :p | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28654 Posts
secretly building 12 wraiths cause you scanned him starting fleet beacon can win you the game though, because he might only have 1 obs with his carriers if he doesnt know you have wraiths, and 12 of them can kill a small fleet of carriers reasonably quickly. so this can work. however, going wraiths as a counter to carriers with protoss knowing you are building them completely fails, because theyre incredibly easy for protoss to counter if they know about them. | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
Goliath 125 hp, wraith 120, damage is close too, but goliath are cheeper and more easily massed. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
Goliaths are just much more feasible for the most part as you can just pump out of existing factories, and they and share the same upgrades as tanks. Also, a lot less strain on your gas consumption. 1 wraith = 2 goliaths in terms of gas use. | ||
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SkepTicAL
Canada872 Posts
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poor newb
United States1879 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
On November 28 2008 03:39 SkelA wrote: PS I need to buy few donkeys for my wheel cuz my connection is horible theese days the old ones are too slow and old :p haha On November 28 2008 04:06 poor newb wrote: boxer medic blind gogo lol that was amazing. The vulnerability of wraiths to sairs and dragoons is also a serious issue that doesn't come up with goliaths. (well goons tend to tame them but not as badly) | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Dead
71 Posts
GG yo!  | ||
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klizzer
517 Posts
Goliaths are usually better, but on carrier-friendly maps, pathing through ramps and cliffs makes fighting carriers really painful... Goliaths + lockdown ftw???? [j/k] | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Final_Judicator
Germany85 Posts
On November 28 2008 04:19 Juicyfruit wrote: How about a combination of wraiths and a couple of valks? You definately do NOT want to use valks who do 6 damage per missile against carriers with 4 base armor. Pretty self-explanatory. On a more topic-related note: Assuming full upgrades on both sides, Goliaths do 18 damage, while wratihs do 19 (wraith's rockets count as ONE missile for calculations, 100% sure), so the damage basically evens out. The HP/armor difference is rather small, too. Wraiths have the advantage of being able to follow the carriers over cliffs and the like, preventing the Terran from being out-microed by the carriers. The downsides are the doubled gas cost and the fact that wraiths will be literally wiped out by ~8+ corsairs which are quickly and easily built. As a few posters already pointed out, the real use for wraiths lies in the surprise effect: scan, shoot down the Protoss' observers, eradicate the carriers and (hopefully) win the game. Never build more than 12 wraiths or even the dumbest Toss players will hard-counter you with corsairs. In a nutshell, Wraiths are the tactical alternative to Goliaths but not a long-term solution against carriers. Remember that in a TvP, you will have the Vehicle upgrades anyway, while there is no other reason to research the ship upgrades - the damage calculation doesn't take this fact into consideration. If you want other strategical alternatives, try either mass M&M (seriously, upgraded marines shoot down interceptors like nobody's business - but then you would have to deal with reavers and psi storms...) or ghosts with lockdown. BCs are, apart from the fact that they are easily countered by storms or even dark archons, just too underpowered to do the trick. Regards, Judicator | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On November 28 2008 04:46 Final_Judicator wrote: You definately do NOT want to use valks who do 6 damage per missile against carriers with 4 base armor. Pretty self-explanatory. Wasn't talking about hitting the carriers. I was talking about hitting the interceptors and the observers without having to scan + targetting them admist a flee of carriers. | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
On November 28 2008 05:08 Juicyfruit wrote: Wasn't talking about hitting the carriers. I was talking about hitting the interceptors and the observers without having to scan + targetting them admist a flee of carriers. If I'm not mistaken the missiles from the valkyrie will actually bug and do 0 damage if an interceptor returns to the carrier. | ||
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
On November 28 2008 05:08 Juicyfruit wrote: Wasn't talking about hitting the carriers. I was talking about hitting the interceptors and the observers without having to scan + targetting them admist a flee of carriers. I believe that interceptors get upgraded as well? so it'd bea base 3 armor which means each orcket does 3 dmg... pretty weak also valk's cool down is too ridiculous the only reason it works against zerg is cus they r much weaker compared to toss | ||
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