• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:54
CEST 08:54
KST 15:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.7Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)13BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 34830 users

[G] How to stop 4-5pools with every race

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-24 02:07:22
November 27 2008 10:27 GMT
#1
My Youtube account was deleted, But I reuploaded them
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=84861



I made a bunch of videos about stopping 4 and 5 pools on BB with every race. So if it works here, it'll work (or a variation of it will work on a larger map).

I've had these videos sitting on my HD for almost a year now. Just now adding captions and uploading to youtube:

I tested each BO v BO 2 or 3 times (not counting the 1000s of other game's experiences)
PvZ 5pool vs 9gate:

+ Show Spoiler +


PvZ 4pool vs 10gate:

+ Show Spoiler +


TvZ 8rax vs 4pool:

+ Show Spoiler +


ZvZ 9pool vs 5pool:
(this is probably the most notable video)

+ Show Spoiler +


I never actually finished testing/making all the BOs v BOs (even though I'm sure what works already):
5pool vs 8rax (obvious though)
5pool vs 9rax
4pool vs 9pool
4-5pool vs Forge builds.
4pool vs 9gate
5pool vs 10gate
overpool vs 4pool
overpool vs 5pool

If anyone wants to test with me give me a PM or whatever. Does 1.16 work for hamachi?


I used shitty music in these videos because its funny to me.
I am aware my micro and decision making is sub par for some of these but that just puts an emphasis on the fact that these defenses work.

PS- I have some blooper videos if you guys wanna see those too. Failed 9raxes (failed 4pool vs 9rax, lol) and failed 10gate.

Builds that don't work 95% of the time are:
9rax vs 4pool,
10/12 2gate vs 4pool
10/12 2gate vs 5pool
10pool vs 4pool
10pool vs 5pool


Thanks to Smaq aka NightToad for being my Zerg guinea pig please don't flame him.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
November 27 2008 10:46 GMT
#2
Forge expand would be pretty useful, as would 11rax .-.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
wo0py
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Netherlands922 Posts
November 27 2008 10:47 GMT
#3
You made very nice vids. bloopers are always fun
We shouldnt recreate anger of the non-virtual world
InfeSteD
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States4658 Posts
November 27 2008 10:48 GMT
#4
really fun videos, good background music too LOL ^_^
w/e
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 10:53:52
November 27 2008 10:50 GMT
#5
fun but i dont see how this would work, terrans seldom does 8rax wallin with suply to prevent a 4pool if he doesnt know its coming lol;)

its like "this is how to prevent dt rush" suply rax ebay academy scan bunker turret bunker turret
......na nanana.. nana.. nana can't touch this
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
November 27 2008 10:54 GMT
#6
Python versions please
TJcan
Profile Joined November 2008
14 Posts
November 27 2008 10:54 GMT
#7
The problem is not 4pool or 5pool, the problem is 9 pool into up'ed hydras from 2 hatches. If you mass zealots, he'll micro you to death. If you gas and core, your tech won't kick in before he rushes and all you have is a few zlots and a silly goon or two. Only chance is to rush w/ mass zlots before hydras are speed up'ed, but he has that ovie in your base and can just add a few sunks X_X
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
November 27 2008 11:06 GMT
#8
In PvZ 4pool vs 10gate, the lings should have went for the gateway. That way the gateway has a chance to go down and the toss is left with maybe a zealot. It also forces the toss to pull probes then you just run away from, this is better because it will make the toss lose more minerals then the other method.

It takes about 14 seconds to kill a gateway with 6 lings. I counted with the video. If he were to go for the gateway, He would have taken it down before the zealot came out.
hoorah
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
November 27 2008 11:07 GMT
#9
In your 8 rax video, a good zerg will kill your scvs that are not protected. That zerg also pulled back when he coulda probably killed your bunker.

When you are opening without knowing a 4 pool is coming BBS all at 9 is probably the best option
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
eX-Corgh
Profile Joined October 2007
Russian Federation386 Posts
November 27 2008 11:19 GMT
#10
lol why make 8 rax vs 5 pool? Its pretty obvious. What about standard rax timing @ 11?
Never give cheese to the Gorilla ^^
ShloobeR
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Korea (South)3809 Posts
November 27 2008 11:25 GMT
#11
in your zvz one, your opponent starting build a colony in range of yours, which is obviously going to be stopped with your build.

usually the opponent will build a colony somewhere it can hit pool/hatch but is not in range of your own.

seeing as you only stopped his sunk because you had yours out I dunno how useful this really is.
: o )
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 11:27:43
November 27 2008 11:25 GMT
#12
These can be easier to retest. There are too many variables. Try using the playrep tool.

edit: Nvm playrep isn't updated.
hoorah
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 11:31:43
November 27 2008 11:30 GMT
#13
On November 27 2008 20:25 ShloobeR wrote:
in your zvz one, your opponent starting build a colony in range of yours, which is obviously going to be stopped with your build.

usually the opponent will build a colony somewhere it can hit pool/hatch but is not in range of your own.

seeing as you only stopped his sunk because you had yours out I dunno how useful this really is.

Yea, that was a pretty big mistake on his part but I think I still win because I got free hits with drones and some of his lings died, I would have maybe lost a few more lings or drones to it. That's all.
My sunken hits his 4 times.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
November 27 2008 11:33 GMT
#14
On November 27 2008 20:25 stanley_ wrote:
These can be easier to retest. There are too many variables. Try using the playrep tool.

edit: Nvm playrep isn't updated.

holy fuck, didn't even know about this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=67365
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
stanley_
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States816 Posts
November 27 2008 11:54 GMT
#15
On November 27 2008 20:19 eX-Corgh wrote:
lol why make 8 rax vs 5 pool? Its pretty obvious. What about standard rax timing @ 11?


With the 8 rax build you can be offensive early game in tvz. it allows you do a bunker rush if they 12hatch, helps defend from a 9 pool and 5 pool because of earlier marines. So even if you haven't scouted them yet 8 rax can be very viable.

Don't think you couldn't still lose from 8 rax aganist 5 pool.

With standard rax timing you just get a later marine and later bunker and those seconds REALLY matter. It will be just based on micro before and after the marine pops out (stacking the scvs then hitting stop and surrounding the marines with the scvs then pushing the lings untill you get a bunker up)

Charlie is just trying to show how the best way to defend and the BO comes first.
hoorah
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7879 Posts
November 27 2008 11:56 GMT
#16
The terran one is retarded: everybody can stop a 4 pool with 8 rax. The problem is: you don't know that 4 pool is coming and you go 11 rax.

And you die.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-11-27 12:13:36
November 27 2008 12:08 GMT
#17
On November 27 2008 20:56 Biff The Understudy wrote:
The terran one is retarded: everybody can stop a 4 pool with 8 rax. The problem is: you don't know that 4 pool is coming and you go 11 rax.

And you die.

On bb I always open with 9rax/10depot vs zerg or random sometimes even vs protoss. Its perfectly viable and will stop a 5pool (i'm pretty sure) but 8rax is guaranteed to stop the 4pool.
If they don't rush when I 9 rax I just make 1 marine and a 2nd barracks/depot sooner.

It's pretty hard to fit all the 'what ifs' into the video, it would just be an endless stream of tangents (sorta like a combat-X vid, but actually correct).
Basically all these builds are pretty safe to open with vs anything. That was the point of all the videos.

btw, I've never opened 11rax on BB.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
November 27 2008 14:25 GMT
#18
Your micro blows CM, especially with Protoss
Complete the cycle!
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 27 2008 14:33 GMT
#19
I think a lot of people ignored the fact that all these were done on Blood Bath. 11rax'ing against a zerg in BB is suicide.
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3454 Posts
November 27 2008 17:35 GMT
#20
Depends on the map.
Not everyone scouts early.
I don't blood bath often.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 318
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 702
Nal_rA 285
Larva 102
Shinee 72
Bale 52
Noble 24
ivOry 4
eros_byul 2
NotJumperer 1
Dota 2
monkeys_forever614
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1504
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King100
Other Games
C9.Mang01432
WinterStarcraft533
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5114
Other Games
gamesdonequick571
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 33
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota271
League of Legends
• Stunt457
• HappyZerGling103
Upcoming Events
GSL Code S
1h 6m
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 6m
WardiTV Qualifier
9h 6m
BSL: ProLeague
11h 6m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
17h 6m
Wardi Open
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.