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SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
China685 Posts
Can we practice on a map that is reasonable? Like 4-5 pool against forge FE for python or Othello? I want to add that I've seen a really effective strategy PvZ-wise for forge FE if you scout 4-5pool 2nd or 3rd. Just add a pylon to your main and once it warps in, put 1 cannon in the center of your min line. Protection from like anything less than 20 lings with some micro. Then you got 14 probes against like 6, 1base vs 1base PvZ. | ||
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stk01001
United States786 Posts
On November 28 2008 03:00 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: I want to test, but these BOs seem pretty nonstandard. :/ Can we practice on a map that is reasonable? Like 4-5 pool against forge FE for python or Othello? I want to add that I've seen a really effective strategy PvZ-wise for forge FE if you scout 4-5pool 2nd or 3rd. Just add a pylon to your main and once it warps in, put 1 cannon in the center of your min line. Protection from like anything less than 20 lings with some micro. Then you got 14 probes against like 6, 1base vs 1base PvZ. err yea.. that's like the only way to stop a 5 pool if you go forge FE.... | ||
thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
But I think 4 pools on close positions need probe blocks. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Solinren
United States2653 Posts
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Final_Judicator
Germany85 Posts
On November 28 2008 19:04 3clipse wrote: 1st video; what the hell is that music? I can't decide if I like it, but I'm curious... | ||
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robice
Germany114 Posts
Going for 9or10 gateway against 4or5 pool doesnt work, if zerg plays properly and has good micro. As someone mentioned, the zerg simply has to go for the gateways. If Protoss pulls off enough probes, back up for the time. Maybe even try to snipe some. Only way to survive 4/5 pool on blood bath (against a good zerg) is forge -> 1cannon -> gateway | ||
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eX-Corgh
Russian Federation386 Posts
On November 27 2008 20:54 stanley_ wrote: With the 8 rax build you can be offensive early game in tvz. it allows you do a bunker rush if they 12hatch, helps defend from a 9 pool and 5 pool because of earlier marines. So even if you haven't scouted them yet 8 rax can be very viable. Don't think you couldn't still lose from 8 rax aganist 5 pool. With standard rax timing you just get a later marine and later bunker and those seconds REALLY matter. It will be just based on micro before and after the marine pops out (stacking the scvs then hitting stop and surrounding the marines with the scvs then pushing the lings untill you get a bunker up) Charlie is just trying to show how the best way to defend and the BO comes first. 9 pool is easily stopped by normal 11 rax with SCV ramp block. Should I just 8 rax every game because can make 5 pool? I would be slowed down by a LOT if he 12 hatches (what Zs do 90% of time in ZvT). And who the hell plays BB??? Basically, the OP is giving videos of hard counters for 5 pool, but you must be 100% sure the zerg will 5 pool, or you'd fall behind. Also, whoever fails with 8 rax vs 5 pool deserves to die ^^ | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Final_Judicator
Germany85 Posts
And who the hell plays BB??? This isn't just about the map Blood Bath. It's about defending against 4/5 pool on small maps in general, where rushs can hurt a lot. CharlieMurphy's work on this topic should really be appreciated, as his tips are extremly useful for players who keep losing against cheap zergs because they just don't know how to deal with it and still moderately useful for more experienced players. Regards, Judicator | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On November 28 2008 03:00 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: I want to test, but these BOs seem pretty nonstandard. :/ Can we practice on a map that is reasonable? Like 4-5 pool against forge FE for python or Othello? I want to add that I've seen a really effective strategy PvZ-wise for forge FE if you scout 4-5pool 2nd or 3rd. Just add a pylon to your main and once it warps in, put 1 cannon in the center of your min line. Protection from like anything less than 20 lings with some micro. Then you got 14 probes against like 6, 1base vs 1base PvZ. It's gonna be about 7 drones =P And the thing is, even if you do that, your tech will be really slow and they'll just mass drones and double expand and you'll be behind. 5pool is really lame sometimes | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10866 Posts
1. Map/Position-Distance. 2. Probe/WBF/Drone vs Ling-Micro. 3. Buildingplacement. 4. *Luck* to have gone for a *fast* build (early gate, baracks..)... I mean if you went for an economic BO your dead, if not you have a chance. | ||
Empyrean
17053 Posts
Also your splits weren't that great  Haha, you're still probably better than I am  | ||
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Bloodwolf
Costa Rica32 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
On November 28 2008 03:00 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote: I want to test, but these BOs seem pretty nonstandard. :/ Can we practice on a map that is reasonable? Like 4-5 pool against forge FE for python or Othello? I want to add that I've seen a really effective strategy PvZ-wise for forge FE if you scout 4-5pool 2nd or 3rd. Just add a pylon to your main and once it warps in, put 1 cannon in the center of your min line. Protection from like anything less than 20 lings with some micro. Then you got 14 probes against like 6, 1base vs 1base PvZ. Eh even with a bad scout you should see the completed pool before lings are fucking your shit. If you make your forge on 10, cannon asap and add a gate to make your block solid then pulling probes to new block with a cannon warping in should buy you enough time to secure your second natural position on the map. Making a cannon in your main is good and all but if you let your forge and pylon die that should be in your natural you lose so much for no real reason. Z is free to pump drones and expand while your gateway warps in and you try to play a slow 1 base strategy. Sure you dont die, but surviving a 4/5 pool should just be gg pretty much. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On November 28 2008 18:12 thedeadhaji wrote: The sangho vs roro game on medusa was a great example of how to react to a 5 pool when you've opened with a forge expand and you know you cant warp cannons at the nat in time. Yes, but the thing to notice is that his scouting played a big part in his survival. You can see him only scouting for overlords, if he had fulfilled his scouting to the wrong position he would have been in a lot worse situation. The pylon in main is the standard follow up especially on medusa since it's pretty far between main and exp there. But there is no hard BO counter (at least not between the most common builds), the better player usually wins as in: there is a big difference between an A level player's 4 pool and B level player etcetera. Obviously there are exceptions but still... Knowing the timings for different map is a lot more useful than knowing the timings from a minimal distance map like BB. | ||
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
On November 29 2008 04:18 MiniRoman wrote: 2 gate > sheild battery. See how worthless that battery was in the grand scheme of things? Your toss probe vs ling micro not too good and the execution of the builds slowed your timings. 10/12 is perfectly safe vs 4 and 5 pool. Very wrong. You're probes wont be mining long enough to make zealots from 2 gates as you will be constantly defending from the lings. Gate/Shield is far better, especially if you make use of the shield battery, which I don't know if he did or not. Also that zvz one was pretty dumb lol. | ||
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Bozali
Sweden155 Posts
Just watched the 8rax build and it didn't seem standard at all. You only do that if you know a 4 pool has a high chance of coming. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
lol, her voice is sexy. | ||
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