EPTWhat this means is, by my calculations, to sustain constant hydralisk production alone, infinitely, from one hatchery, you'd actually need only 5 workers on minerals, and 2 on gas. HOWEVER, keep in mind that you will need to continually add Overlords (1 for every 8 hydras), which means you actually need 6 workers on minerals, and 1 on gas. But this actually produces a surplus of 110 minerals for every 8 hydras + overlord, meaning if you are pumping hydras from two hatcheries, you can get away with 11 on minerals and 2 on gas. On three hatcheries, since you'd need 16 on minerals and 3 on gas, and on four, you'd need 21 on minerals and 4 on gas. So really, it's more accurate to say 5.2 on minerals and 1 on gas for each hatchery producing hydras. I've tested this out in-game, and it seems to support my conclusions. Anyways, I hope this information will help people produce even more exact builds.
[G] Zerg econ management + bonus Terran section - Page 3
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Underwhelmed
United States207 Posts
What this means is, by my calculations, to sustain constant hydralisk production alone, infinitely, from one hatchery, you'd actually need only 5 workers on minerals, and 2 on gas. HOWEVER, keep in mind that you will need to continually add Overlords (1 for every 8 hydras), which means you actually need 6 workers on minerals, and 1 on gas. But this actually produces a surplus of 110 minerals for every 8 hydras + overlord, meaning if you are pumping hydras from two hatcheries, you can get away with 11 on minerals and 2 on gas. On three hatcheries, since you'd need 16 on minerals and 3 on gas, and on four, you'd need 21 on minerals and 4 on gas. So really, it's more accurate to say 5.2 on minerals and 1 on gas for each hatchery producing hydras. I've tested this out in-game, and it seems to support my conclusions. Anyways, I hope this information will help people produce even more exact builds. | ||
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Ki_Do
Korea (South)981 Posts
-will this be present in sc2... oh hell =( - | ||
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
I think most people are better off doing it by feel rather than by math. Fuck that i've been looking for an starcraft easy button for years :D sup dude ur easy i can just make 25 drones 4hatch hydra and rape u yawnrape savior style ! but in all seriousness i think doing it by math helps you get a clear, better understanding of the timing window. interested where this thread is going to go :O | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
But I guess you calculated the overlord separate at 2 so it evens out. (need a lord for every 4 mutas) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78202 As far as the thread goes I found that 10 drones on minerals at each base is the optimal, for a standard 3 hatch game with hatches regularly going up and unit pumping. Any extra minerals or gas should go to expos, upgrades, or tech. I mean, you don't go into a game going; "Ok, I need 4 drones on minerals here for lurker and 2 for ling so that's all i'm gonna ever need to win." No, you gotta take into account that you need to expo and build tech stuff before you even get to that minimal point. This info is mostly only useful in those clutch games where you lost drones or whatever and you can't afford to make anymore econ and/or you can seize an opportunity to win right there. Otherwise you'll probably already have all the requirements met and overkilled (so you can consistently expo/upgrade/tech as well) PS- Queen data is basically the same as mutalisk 100/100 2 supply cost other than the build time. | ||
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EvoChamber
France2505 Posts
On the other hand, the unique manner by which Zerg units are produced seems to make playing on a knife-edge, pumping drones until the very last second and then shifting all hatcheries over to units, the most effective method of playing. Which is what most Zerg players try to do. This method is inherently unstable and it's easy to get either too greedy or too poor. But then again, a chart like the OP's might help with just that problem, though the point at which a player shifts to unit productions is still dependent on the progress of the game at hand. I'm curious what would happen if a Zerg player forced themselves to treat certain hatcheries like a CC all the time, pumping workers basically non-stop, while treating certain hatcheries like Barracks/Factories/Starports. I honestly don't know whether playing like the other two races might help; even if it did work better than what's done now, it would make Zerg a lot less interesting. You know you're playing Zerg when they tell you've made too many workers. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7668 Posts
On September 18 2008 03:42 HeavOnEarth wrote: of course this is just a C newb zerg talking hurr ~  This type of thing is used as a tool, mostly before you play a game or when you watch one and study to understand it. Just general comprehension on the subject will give you an advantage over alot of players. | ||
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NergalSC
Poland186 Posts
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DhakhaR
United Kingdom721 Posts
im mostly intertested in the terran section, i think it could help with my TvP  | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
Too many newer zergs don't understand the concept of overdroning and how much it hurts their macro. They treat their hatcheries like nexuses and try to keep up with probe production instead of army production. Eventually, all the extra drones and hatcheries become wasted investments against protosses with any kind of timing sense when the protoss pushes out with ~140 supply while the zerg is stuck at <100 with 50 drones and no army. I think this thread will take a lot of Zergs to the next level. Recommended? EDIT: w3jjjj, can you recalculate the drone counts to where you are limited by larva only, not gas? | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
I've been thinking of calculating and making a guide like this myself, but I never had the time or patience to do so. I'm one of those zergs that as Saracen says makes too many drones and ends up not having enough 'military' units when the push arrives. I've always wondered and been amazed at how players like July can have only a couple drones mining off multiple expos and yet produce an insane amount of units from them. I should copy this down, haha. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
does that mean its impossible to do sk terran (2 port vessels) with only 2 bases? maybe it works out because of leftover gas + noob macro ^.^ | ||
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Zerg_Sasuke
176 Posts
On September 19 2008 22:52 Saracen wrote: This thread is pure 24-carat gold. Too many newer zergs don't understand the concept of overdroning and how much it hurts their macro. They treat their hatcheries like nexuses and try to keep up with probe production instead of army production. Eventually, all the extra drones and hatcheries become wasted investments against protosses with any kind of timing sense when the protoss pushes out with ~140 supply while the zerg is stuck at <100 with 50 drones and no army. I think this thread will take a lot of Zergs to the next level. Recommended? EDIT: w3jjjj, can you recalculate the drone counts to where you are limited by larva only, not gas? This thread is pure 24-carat gold. Yes , it is Thanks man =] | ||
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Zerg_Sasuke
176 Posts
On September 18 2008 06:08 Underwhelmed wrote: So last night I modified Python a bit to help me measure resource collection rates - I'll skip over the details unless anybody is interested, but at 100% efficiency (1 worker per patch), one worker collects about 0.75 minerals per second of in-game timer, and gas is collected about at 1.5 times that rate (1.125). Larva spawn every 20 seconds of the in-game timer. So in the time it takes one larva to spawn, one worker will gather an average of 15 minerals and 22.5 gas (Obviously, resources are collected in multiples of 8 and aren't continuously added, but you get the idea. I also assume that a gas geyser with 3 workers on it is still at 100% efficiency, although I haven't tested it yet). What this means is, by my calculations, to sustain constant hydralisk production alone, infinitely, from one hatchery, you'd actually need only 5 workers on minerals, and 2 on gas. HOWEVER, keep in mind that you will need to continually add Overlords (1 for every 8 hydras), which means you actually need 6 workers on minerals, and 1 on gas. But this actually produces a surplus of 110 minerals for every 8 hydras + overlord, meaning if you are pumping hydras from two hatcheries, you can get away with 11 on minerals and 2 on gas. On three hatcheries, since you'd need 16 on minerals and 3 on gas, and on four, you'd need 21 on minerals and 4 on gas. So really, it's more accurate to say 5.2 on minerals and 1 on gas for each hatchery producing hydras. I've tested this out in-game, and it seems to support my conclusions. Anyways, I hope this information will help people produce even more exact builds. I guess if u count it as 6 drones per hatch for hydra then it includes that 12 workers dont mine 2x more than 6 workers etc, cuz of minerals number ; | ||
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