EPTThe Difference between Koreans and Foreigners - Page 3
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NergalSC
Poland186 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On September 14 2008 23:33 Tadzio00 wrote: Does this mean that playing comp stomps is time well spent? nony became one of the best foreigners by doing nothing but choosing good builds and newb bashing 24/7 on iccup, just by focusing hardcore on executing perfectly. so yes, if you have the ability to force yourself to play a standard game and push yourself to keep your mechanics as perfect as possible regardless of your opponent, yes you can improve by playing vs computers(assuming you study good players and learn good builds to practice). however it is of course better to play vs better opponents, as they will expose you to more different scenarios and they will push your mechanics naturally. | ||
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nA.Inky
United States794 Posts
At this point, I don't even watch pro games or replays anymore. The game is TOTALLY different than it was back in 2001 or even 2004. It's not about creativity, it's about muscle memory. It's mostly about mechanics. Modern BW is incredibly boring compared to what it used to be. I feel kind of bad for the people who only got into the game after 2005 or so. I can't tell you how much more exciting and varied the game was before that. People played many more strategies - even the pros did - and people had very distinctive styles. I also really feel sorry for pro-gamers. I hope they enjoy what they are doing, but given the way BW was going, I could hardly stand to play it for 3 hours a day, let alone 10 or 12. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On September 15 2008 00:03 SkepTicAL wrote: Do you get to play 8-10 hours a day with progamers who help you point out things in person? Buddy you think playing like 15 games is alot for you, im sure thats minimal in a progamer house. These guys have access to all 3 match ups and as many games as they want vs TOP PLAYERS. Don't compare your training regiment with a pros lol. I wonder if foreigners got to have a facility to live and train together if they would get as good as the pros under the same training standards. Obviously there isnt any money in it, but it would be interesting  OK so the main difference is that they play a lot more than me? that's not what his post said but whatever. If the main difference is that they just play a lot more and have better opponents well uh... duh? | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
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NergalSC
Poland186 Posts
On September 15 2008 00:25 IdrA wrote: nony became one of the best foreigners by doing nothing but choosing good builds and newb bashing 24/7 on iccup, just by focusing hardcore on executing perfectly. so yes, if you have the ability to force yourself to play a standard game and push yourself to keep your mechanics as perfect as possible regardless of your opponent, yes you can improve by playing vs computers(assuming you study good players and learn good builds to practice). however it is of course better to play vs better opponents, as they will expose you to more different scenarios and they will push your mechanics naturally. Seems really optimistic to me because I am pretty new player (in comparision to others) and now I have chosen great builds for PvP and PvZ (my PvT builds sux - because I havent seen NonY FPVOD with good standard PvT build ). I like safe, standard and straight-up builds but I do not really have source to get them except NonY VODs. Now I will try to push my mechanics highly and play few good build orders perfectly. Maybe will work.  | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
And it's also the reason why I stopped playing a few years ago - SC just didn't seem much about anticipation/strategy/micro anymore, although some people still believe that's not true. But when (at the higher levels) you can follow $goodbuildX and be prepared for just about anything the enemy might throw at you if you only execute it well enough (multitasking/speed), then something elementary is not right anymore. In a strategy game, every strategy should have a weakness - in StarCraft however, there's a standard strategy for each matchup or map which doesn't *have* a particular weakness. It's just all around solid vs. everything, and this means that better mechanics will decide. I, too, feel bad for people who haven't played the game before 2004 or 2005. It was indeed different. I still watch progamers play (VODs with commentary only), but active competitive gaming or more generally the will to become a lot better at this - hell no. | ||
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NergalSC
Poland186 Posts
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
Would this mean that people should only play one build, and one build only? What would happen to strange builds such as 14 nexus, DT rush, etc.? Shouldn't the "ultimate build" be map dependent, or is there a one-build-fits-all type of deal? Could you provide the PvX builds? ^.^ That would be awesome | ||
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SpiralArchitect
United States2116 Posts
On September 14 2008 19:42 PobTheCad wrote: you talk as if pro starcraft is a valid career path? come on dude....think It is a valid career path... Look at Nal_Ra, Garimto, Kingdom, Iloveoov, fuck I am sure that when Boxer retires he isn't going to open doors for people at WAL-MART. Its just like athletics man you have a period of time when you can compete with your peers but eventually a time comes when you have to go your seperate ways, in this case it means Coaching, Management, Casting or some other form of e-Sports job. | ||
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
Even if only for the fact that he is right there watching what they are doing in front of him, that is enough for me. It actually makes me want to play some starcraft... | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
On September 15 2008 00:58 Seraphim wrote: A few questions (to Artosis or Idra): Would this mean that people should only play one build, and one build only? What would happen to strange builds such as 14 nexus, DT rush, etc.? Shouldn't the "ultimate build" be map dependent, or is there a one-build-fits-all type of deal? Could you provide the PvX builds? ^.^ That would be awesome it could possibly be that they practice EACH of these builds for hours on end... that's how they get good at all those other options and not just have one good build | ||
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Morello
Bulgaria3 Posts
On September 14 2008 21:40 NergalSC wrote: Yeah and I play 1 week and I will soon reach A!!1 Believe it or not its a fact.And u douche please tell me what I win by lie for such thing!? Anyway I'm ex-Warcraft3 player and I must tell you that I've noticed how bad foreigners train, I'm playing for one not so good team and I've been asking them to practise with me almost non stop and after week and couple of days in I've played only 15-20 games with them.In warcraft the best practise comes from training in ggc(garena) with teammates because the bnet is corrupted with hackers since 9-11 months.Its really easy to progress when you can train one matchup a lot and there are people watching and pointing your mistakes.Of course if u don't have team just ask some better players when you to practise with them and watch your replay for mistakes. I've said it many times and I'll repeat it again ,thanks iMp players and thanks letalis for training with me. Be good ,get good or give up | ||
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Seraphim
United States4467 Posts
On September 15 2008 01:16 29 fps wrote: it could possibly be that they practice EACH of these builds for hours on end... that's how they get good at all those other options and not just have one good build Doesn't Artosis imply that you should only have one good build and everything else "sucks"? | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On September 14 2008 19:14 Artosis wrote: His choices in odd situations will almost always be less intelligent than a top foreigner player but he has the extra economy and units to be able to get away with that. Most def. | ||
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gNs.I-Jasa
United States211 Posts
On September 14 2008 20:04 NergalSC wrote: I have to disagree. Every player at high level (no matter foreigner or korean) have pretty good mechanics. Draco, Dreiven - they can keep they minerals down, have right unit combination and so on. But Bisu or Best basically do right decisions. If you look at the game of C+ player and B+ player - their mechanics are pretty equal. Ok maybe little difference but not that influencing game. And then B+ player totally rapes C+, wtf? B+ does right decisions, have better tactics. I am always against saying that SC is only making more units and controlling them better. If this would be right - I could be top player because I can force myself to macro at very good level, and generally play mechanics at top level. But this factor that makes MIStrZZZ 999999999999x better than me is that he have better tactics - he uses his units more effectively, attacking at right moment. He predict enemys situation better, he gets his advantage step by step to the point he can just rape me. Look at the sAviOr vs Dreiven from latest WWI and then watch Mondragon vs Dreiven at TSL. sAviOr did his lair when he had like 180 gas: that mean his mechanics are not so godlike. He was bothered controlling zerglings and forgot to make lair. Look at iloveoov and sAviOr - their APM is like 250! Ah and one more thing about game between Maestro and Dreiven: Zerg basically did PERFECT decision. Every action in StarCraft gives you advantages and disadvantages. For example: I do Nexus First build in PvT. Advantage is great economy. Disadvantages: I am vulnerable to rushes, lack of early aggresion from my side. And good player use disadvantage of enemy build (for example going 2 factories to break or does a lot quicker expand than normal [using lack of enemys aggresion]). This example is reaaaaally basic but shows whole problem. In high level game decision made by players are so advanced, they think a lot and winner is player who has better tactics. Artosis I respect you as player and commentator (I like you analysis on game - actually only commentator who analyses tactics and decision making in game he commentate) but in this aspect I have to disagree. Sorry. The longer the games goes.... the better the koreans macro is more than the foreigners | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On September 15 2008 01:25 Seraphim wrote: Doesn't Artosis imply that you should only have one good build and everything else "sucks"? No. You're totally inferring the wrong things from what he said. | ||
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