|
Does anyone know whether Queen's Ensnare and Devourer's Acid Spore effect on attack rate stack, i.e., have a combined effect?
I.e., will air units fire at a slower rate if they suffer both effects?
(For those that do not know: Queens will slow, besides movement rate, the rate of fire depending on unit type; it is believed that it slows the attack animation, i.e., units that have a shorter anmiation will be slowed less than other units; and there are other exceptions.)
Inspired by this thread: http://tsunamisstrategyforum.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/469
(Ensarre experiment details me also be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41799#15)
ANSWER: Yes, they do stack. I.e., a unit which has been target of a Devourer and an Ensnare will fire slower than with only one effect on it. The exact reduction is unclear, but it has been posted that acid spores reduce attack rate for about 50%, while Ensnare may generally be around 15%.
|
United States10328 Posts
I'm not sure if ensnare stacks (because I don't use queens that much :O ), but when things have acid spores on them, it says acid spores (8) or something, so I think that matters? (Maybe the slow doesn't stack, but the damage does? I'm not really sure.)
|
Every effect stacks in SC.
|
United States3824 Posts
More Acid Spores cause slower attack rate, not sure about the queen so I'm not going to say anything
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
lool more ensnares dont do anything other than refreshing the duration of the ensnare
|
I don't think any of you read the question properly (except ForAdun if he's right), I think he's asking if both of them on the same unit at the same time stacks...
edit: I'm pretty sure they do stack but not 100% positive.
|
I don't think the responses so far understand your question. lol
I'm not really a great zerg user though but I am pretty sure that they do stack.
ah noobienoob and I were posting at about the same time.
|
Ensnare does NOT stack.
Acid spores DO stack.
|
Thats not what hes talking about. He isn't talking about the spells individually. He is talking about when you are combining them together.
Like if you have a wraith with devourer spores, and a queen ensnares it, will it feel the effects of BOTH the spores AND the ensnare.
|
On August 05 2008 02:22 illeszt wrote:
Ensnare does NOT stack.
Acid spores DO stack.
Wrong answer...
He is asking if you have both ensnare and acid spore[s] on a unit, will both work at the same time(stack?) making it even slower..
Is that what he is asking?
|
Yeah, thats what he is asking. noobienoob and I are both like 90% sure that they do stack.
|
I just made a UMS map to test it. 1 sec.
|
They do stack together, 90% sure
|
OK. I just finished testing it. Yeah they do stack.
|
gj SnowFantasy 
|
Vatican City State1872 Posts
all spells stack
plague + ensnare + acid spores ftw
|
Vatican City State1872 Posts
god imagine you're flying around with 200/200 mutas and someone ensnare/plagues you army and kills all of them with 12 mutas
sick life
|
Too bad most of my fellow zergasaur users are too afraid to use queens 
|
I read somewhere that Esnare slows atack rate by 20 % . Devourer acid spores add damage , amount in ( ) , ie (9) = unit dmg + 9 dmg , also decreases speed dramaticaly with fire rate as well.
|
United States11390 Posts
On August 05 2008 04:31 Zerg_Sasuke wrote:
I read somewhere that Esnare slows atack rate by 20 % . Devourer acid spores add damage , amount in ( ) , ie (9) = unit dmg + 9 dmg , also decreases speed dramaticaly with fire rate as well.
The rate that ensnare affects attack rate is unit dependent. (Some units are not even affected!)
|
sc is so confusing..
anyway, i thought they did stack..?
|
On August 05 2008 01:47 ForAdun wrote:
Every effect stacks in SC.
if you mean to stack that they can have all this together, yes, but if you dindt mean that:
not psi storm
not plague
not irradate on the same unit
not dmatrix
not ensare
|
what? ensnare slows attack rate? i thot it was just movement speed
not irradate on the same unit
so if you irratdiated 3 ultras in a triangle right next to each other, and had an irradiated vessel over them, each ultra die at the speed of 4 irradiates?
|
On August 05 2008 06:55 crabapple wrote:what? ensnare slows attack rate? i thot it was just movement speed so if you irratdiated 3 ultras in a triangle right next to each other, and had an irradiated vessel over them, each ultra die at the speed of 4 irradiates?
yes
|
On August 05 2008 06:55 crabapple wrote:what? ensnare slows attack rate? i thot it was just movement speed so if you irratdiated 3 ultras in a triangle right next to each other, and had an irradiated vessel over them, each ultra die at the speed of 4 irradiates?
I guess you've never irradiated 12 vessels and flown them over a bio army. It's loads of funny on bgh.
everything but ultras dies instantly.
BTW: what's the name of that maneuver?
|
On August 05 2008 06:22 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:if you mean to stack that they can have all this together, yes, but if you dindt mean that: not psi storm not plague not irradate on the same unit not dmatrix not ensare
This post says all, the topic can be closed now. No "90% sure" anymore, please.
|
On August 05 2008 07:45 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 06:55 crabapple wrote:what? ensnare slows attack rate? i thot it was just movement speed not irradate on the same unit so if you irratdiated 3 ultras in a triangle right next to each other, and had an irradiated vessel over them, each ultra die at the speed of 4 irradiates? I guess you've never irradiated 12 vessels and flown them over a bio army. It's loads of funny on bgh. everything but ultras dies instantly. BTW: what's the name of that maneuver?
eraser.
|
Ok: here's a fun trick I just tried when testing irradiate stack. Make a ton of marines, a dropship, a goliath, and a vessel. Irradiate the goliath, load it onto the dropship, then see how many marines you can load onto the dropship. I got 34 the first try. Freakin' infinite capacity dropship.
|
As a side note, I think 9 acid spores lowers attack rate by 53%. This could be wrong, but its what I read somewhere.
|
Acid Spores Stack
Ensnare does not stack
Acid spores + ensnare effects coincide
9 acid spores and an ensnare on a corsairs makes it fire slower than a reaver.
|
God damn it only took like 8 of you only reading the op and 4 of you talking out of your asses before one person says "i'm going to test this i'll post again when i'm done"
edit: only reading the title* i only read the op
|
So if you had plague + ensnare only one of them would work? But if you had plague + acid spores they both would work? And plague + ensnare + acid spores only acid spores and the last recently cast spell would work? Ugh, confusing!
Btw, acid spores don't add damage they decrease armor right? And then they have the slow.
|
On August 05 2008 10:25 Superiorwolf wrote:
So if you had plague + ensnare only one of them would work? But if you had plague + acid spores they both would work? And plague + ensnare + acid spores only acid spores and the last recently cast spell would work? Ugh, confusing!
Btw, acid spores don't add damage they decrease armor right? And then they have the slow.
Acid spores increase damage. Level 0 muta hit on 9 acid spores does 18 to initial target, 12 on first bounce, and 10 on 2nd bounce. You subtract armor from that amount. I have heard they also increase the rate of psi storm damage by 1 each time it's calculated (every half second?). I guess that means a unit with 9 spores that's stormed would take 183 damage? I'll have to test it. It doesn't work with plague though.
From the compendium: "Each Acid Spore attached to an enemy unit will increase the Cooldown of the enemy's weaponry by 1/8th of the original cooldown value. The effects of the Acid Spores are cumulative, but any unit can only possess up to nine Acid Spores at any one time."
|
on a random note d matrix = 255 hp( no armor ) - 1 hp for every second ~
|
On August 05 2008 10:36 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 10:25 Superiorwolf wrote:
So if you had plague + ensnare only one of them would work? But if you had plague + acid spores they both would work? And plague + ensnare + acid spores only acid spores and the last recently cast spell would work? Ugh, confusing!
Btw, acid spores don't add damage they decrease armor right? And then they have the slow. Acid spores increase damage. Level 0 muta hit on 9 acid spores does 18 to initial target, 12 on first bounce, and 10 on 2nd bounce. You subtract armor from that amount. I have heard they also increase the rate of psi storm damage by 1 each time it's calculated (every half second?). I guess that means a unit with 9 spores that's stormed would take 183 damage? I'll have to test it. It doesn't work with plague though. From the compendium: "Each Acid Spore attached to an enemy unit will increase the Cooldown of the enemy's weaponry by 1/8th of the original cooldown value. The effects of the Acid Spores are cumulative, but any unit can only possess up to nine Acid Spores at any one time."
if im not mistaken storm = 116 dmg ? how did u get 183
|
On August 05 2008 10:40 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 10:36 LonelyMargarita wrote:On August 05 2008 10:25 Superiorwolf wrote:
So if you had plague + ensnare only one of them would work? But if you had plague + acid spores they both would work? And plague + ensnare + acid spores only acid spores and the last recently cast spell would work? Ugh, confusing!
Btw, acid spores don't add damage they decrease armor right? And then they have the slow. Acid spores increase damage. Level 0 muta hit on 9 acid spores does 18 to initial target, 12 on first bounce, and 10 on 2nd bounce. You subtract armor from that amount. I have heard they also increase the rate of psi storm damage by 1 each time it's calculated (every half second?). I guess that means a unit with 9 spores that's stormed would take 183 damage? I'll have to test it. It doesn't work with plague though. From the compendium: "Each Acid Spore attached to an enemy unit will increase the Cooldown of the enemy's weaponry by 1/8th of the original cooldown value. The effects of the Acid Spores are cumulative, but any unit can only possess up to nine Acid Spores at any one time." if im not mistaken storm = 116 dmg ? how did u get 183
Psi storm does 112. I believe in 8 sections of 14 damage / half second.
|
oh ok
|
On August 05 2008 10:56 HeavOnEarth wrote:oh ok
183 was a typo. I meant 112 + 9*8 = 184. And I just tested it, and it does 184 damage to a unit with 9 spores. Testing spore + irradiate will be much harder.
|
Calgary25981 Posts
Yes. Why don't you test it instead of starting a thread?
"Ensnare + acid spores stack!" is a much better thread than "Do ensnare + acid spores stack?"
Seriously, it's like 2 seconds to test.
|
Yes they do stack ontop of each other, its just like plauge and ensnare, if you look closely you can see red switch back to green switch back to red switch back to green...that or im just high =/
|
Ok, I tried testing irradiate with acid spores. With 9 acid spores, an irradiated unit takes 925 points of damage (but heals 10 during the irradiate = 915). Irradiate normally does 250 damage. This means irradiate is compounded 75 times during the spell (about 3.333 damage every half second for 37.5 game seconds I believe). 9 acid spores makes irradiate almost 4 times as powerful. Of course you'd never use it in a game because if you had t and z, you'd just go devourer/valkyrie (120 damage per salvo on 9 acid spored 0 armor units, which splashes). 6 valks pretty much 1 hit anything with 9 acid spores.
|
On August 05 2008 06:55 crabapple wrote:what? ensnare slows attack rate? i thot it was just movement speed so if you irratdiated 3 ultras in a triangle right next to each other, and had an irradiated vessel over them, each ultra die at the speed of 4 irradiates?
yes
|
On August 05 2008 07:59 LonelyMargarita wrote:
Ok: here's a fun trick I just tried when testing irradiate stack. Make a ton of marines, a dropship, a goliath, and a vessel. Irradiate the goliath, load it onto the dropship, then see how many marines you can load onto the dropship. I got 34 the first try. Freakin' infinite capacity dropship.
Off topic but that is interesting.
On August 05 2008 11:28 Chill wrote:
Yes. Why don't you test it instead of starting a thread?
"Ensnare + acid spores stack!" is a much better thread than "Do ensnare + acid spores stack?"
Seriously, it's like 2 seconds to test.
I certainly agree with what you are saying but there is no point for this topic otherwise as replies will be "ok..." and then it will be closed. I believe even though some people already knew this answer, it has cleared out doubts for others.
Besides.. it is funny to see how so many people misinterpreted what the OP is asking for.
|
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On August 05 2008 12:04 LonelyMargarita wrote:
Ok, I tried testing irradiate with acid spores. With 9 acid spores, an irradiated unit takes 925 points of damage (but heals 10 during the irradiate = 915). Irradiate normally does 250 damage. This means irradiate is compounded 75 times during the spell (about 3.333 damage every half second for 37.5 game seconds I believe). 9 acid spores makes irradiate almost 4 times as powerful. Of course you'd never use it in a game because if you had t and z, you'd just go devourer/valkyrie (120 damage per salvo on 9 acid spored 0 armor units, which splashes). 6 valks pretty much 1 hit anything with 9 acid spores.
hahahaha omfg those stats soudn sooo awesome but too bad w'ere never gonna see eraser + acid spores or 9 acid spored air units wtih valkyries melting the shit out of them.lol omfg. haha thanks for testing!
|
To make something come of this thread, unless someone else does first, I'll make an "All about Acid Spores" thread in the strategy section, including their splash, their rate-of-attack effect, how they stack with unit damage, how they stack with damage spells, and how they stack with ensnare's rate-of-attack decrease. I'll have to do the math on the ensnare first, since it's different for each unit. If no one else makes the thread, I should be able to do that later tonight.
|
Calgary25981 Posts
On August 05 2008 12:30 Ryshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 07:59 LonelyMargarita wrote:
Ok: here's a fun trick I just tried when testing irradiate stack. Make a ton of marines, a dropship, a goliath, and a vessel. Irradiate the goliath, load it onto the dropship, then see how many marines you can load onto the dropship. I got 34 the first try. Freakin' infinite capacity dropship. Off topic but that is interesting. Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 11:28 Chill wrote:
Yes. Why don't you test it instead of starting a thread?
"Ensnare + acid spores stack!" is a much better thread than "Do ensnare + acid spores stack?"
Seriously, it's like 2 seconds to test. I certainly agree with what you are saying but there is no point for this topic otherwise as replies will be "ok..." and then it will be closed. I believe even though some people already knew this answer, it has cleared out doubts for others. Besides.. it is funny to see how so many people misinterpreted what the OP is asking for.
Just bump the ensnare thread. As is this thread is useless and why are there so many useless replies in it?
|
well if ensnare slows attack rate, i don't know why people don't use it more often! devourers are good because they slow down attack rate. that's their main thing. but why limit it to air units, when u can snare anything?
cost of upgrading ensnare = cost of mutating 1 devourer
cost of queen = cost of mutalisk.
O.o???
|
The cost of money needed to support Ensnare mid-game is too much that you can't afford because it will delay your hive tech. Also, ensnare is not as useful as consume + swarm (and plague to boot). You'd need many Queens to have the usefulness of one defiler. There was a huge queen thread earlier back - some people found that they are useful in some situations but never as useful as the defiler. However getting 100/100 Queen for parasite only can be worth it sometimes imo, 75 energy for a semi-permanent scout on their army which is pretty nice. No one ever does that though. Because you don't have the ability to consume, you'll have to constantly know when your queens reach 75 energy to ensnare or parasite (and you'll have to have the queens always nearby in case of a battle).
Check out these Queen threads:
Viability of Queens
Queens ZvP - talks about broodling too
Another thread
Queens ZvT and ZvP ?
Search on Queens on TL.net - tons and tons of threads with the subject of queens on them. Lots of good information and lots of people question the viability of queens. Many threads have over 50 posts in them, too.
As you can see, the queen is an interesting unit. You can find out even more info from the search button.
|
On August 05 2008 10:36 LonelyMargarita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 10:25 Superiorwolf wrote:
So if you had plague + ensnare only one of them would work? But if you had plague + acid spores they both would work? And plague + ensnare + acid spores only acid spores and the last recently cast spell would work? Ugh, confusing!
Btw, acid spores don't add damage they decrease armor right? And then they have the slow. Acid spores increase damage. Level 0 muta hit on 9 acid spores does 18 to initial target, 12 on first bounce, and 10 on 2nd bounce.
True but you could make the argument that it technically lowers armor. It is corrosive acid so it corrodes the armor of whatever it is on. You just have to open your mind up to accepting negative armor numbers. For instance a fully upgraded carrier with 9 acid spores would have -2 armor and thus take 11 damage from a fully upgraded marine (9 -(-2)).
|
|
|
On August 05 2008 04:00 Hawk wrote:Too bad most of my fellow zergasaur users are too nub to use queens
That's more like it.
|
On August 05 2008 02:38 SnowFantasy wrote:
OK. I just finished testing it. Yeah they do stack.
Thank you! (and the others who tested it)
and...
On August 05 2008 11:28 Chill wrote:
Yes. Why don't you test it instead of starting a thread?
"Ensnare + acid spores stack!" is a much better thread than "Do ensnare + acid spores stack?"
Seriously, it's like 2 seconds to test.
Answer:
- I was at work, no way to test it here.
- Also, testing it myself still takes longer then a person knowing just saying "yes" or "no", and my time is very limited.
- On a side note, I thought it useful to create a thread for future users looking for an answer to this specific question, who'd like to avoid reading through lengthy queen related threads.
I have edited the original post to include the answer; perhaps you want to change the subject to [I], Chill.
|
On August 05 2008 16:42 Metaspace wrote:
I have edited the original post to include the answer; perhaps you want to change the subject to [I], Chill.
Sweet. All [Q] threads should do that.
|
This thread is so full of fail. Why can people not read?
|
Calgary25981 Posts
On August 05 2008 16:42 Metaspace wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 02:38 SnowFantasy wrote:
OK. I just finished testing it. Yeah they do stack. Thank you! (and the others who tested it) and... Show nested quote +On August 05 2008 11:28 Chill wrote:
Yes. Why don't you test it instead of starting a thread?
"Ensnare + acid spores stack!" is a much better thread than "Do ensnare + acid spores stack?"
Seriously, it's like 2 seconds to test. Answer: - I was at work, no way to test it here.
- Also, testing it myself still takes longer then a person knowing just saying "yes" or "no", and my time is very limited.
- On a side note, I thought it useful to create a thread for future users looking for an answer to this specific question, who'd like to avoid reading through lengthy queen related threads.
I have edited the original post to include the answer; perhaps you want to change the subject to [I], Chill.
Alright thanks. I'm just going to leave it as [Q] even though it's been answered. You can link to the ensnare effects thread too in your original post if you like: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41799#15
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
