EPTReplay:
http://www.t1.templarian.com/119.rep
Thanks in advance.
[Q] 2port wraith rush TvT, how do i beat it?
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
Replay: http://www.t1.templarian.com/119.rep Thanks in advance. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On March 30 2008 08:29 katona wrote: This was on US East earlier, this guy beat me badly with this oh boy.. You beat the rush by scouting it. You didnt scout at all. If you scouted you could've made turrets or golies | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
I did scout, though, I sent out an SCV and found him and everything. I just guess my positioning was wrong or I didn't keep it alive long enough? also, I feel like I was slow with the academy/comsat. | ||
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
Anyway, TvT is one MU I feel strong in, but excuse me if I give any shitty advice: First, the basics. You didn't scout. Your scv production was terrible, you cut it at 15 scvs. When you put up the expo, he had 22 scvs to your 15, and you would've lost whatever build he went. 2 Port wraith can't always be scouted. When I go 2 port, it's only if I kill his SCV after he's scouted a 2 fact, after which I cancel the 2nd fact and put up the 2 ports. Not something I do often... If you had scouted it though, it's easy to counter and you have a few options: 1.) Push. You had a bunch of vultures and tanks. If your opponent has wraiths, you know you have ground superiority. Wraiths don't do enough damage to stop your vultures from raping his workers. At the same time, you'll want to put up an ebay and armory. If your attack is successful, and you see he doesn't have drop + tanks yet, then you can expo safely. If he has siege and this is LT, build a CC in your main, and expo when you feel safe against a cliff drop. 2.) Put up an armory, ebay, and expo. Pushing is always preferable, but it's not viable if he's walled in. But you can expo pretty safely, long as you can get turrets up. You may need to put up an academy first instead. If this is wrong, correct me please. I'm confident in TvT but no gosu. The way I understand it, wraiths can do very little damage themselves. They're large units and take full damage from turrets and golis. But they're very good at maintaining map control and supporting drops however, and you usually want to get wraiths of your own to keep your dropships from being sniped. The disadvantage is you have terrific ground superiority, and when you're dug in any position with turrets, he'll have a hard time taking you out. Either go wraiths yourself or keep your goli numbers up, and you'll be fine. edit: I'm an idiot for not finishing the rep and seeing that you did push, and it failed. Your problem was it came too late, and his wraiths overwhelmed you. I guess it works for me because I tend to start with 2 fact vultures and a marine + vulture rush. The 4-5 times this week I've done that against 2 port wraith it's worked well, especially when I get an ebay up also. | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On March 30 2008 10:06 ahrara_ wrote: I don't see any hate. he edited his post, sorry. On March 30 2008 10:06 ahrara_ wrote: Anyway, TvT is one MU I feel strong in, but excuse me if I give any shitty advice: First, the basics. You didn't scout. Your scv production was terrible, you cut it at 15 scvs. When you put up the expo, he had 22 scvs to your 15, and you would've lost whatever build he went. 2 Port wraith can't always be scouted. When I go 2 port, it's only if I kill his SCV after he's scouted a 2 fact, after which I cancel the 2nd fact and put up the 2 ports. Not something I do often... If you had scouted it though, it's easy to counter and you have a few options: 1.) Push. You had a bunch of vultures and tanks. If your opponent has wraiths, you know you have ground superiority. Wraiths don't do enough damage to stop your vultures from raping his workers. At the same time, you'll want to put up an ebay and armory. If your attack is successful, and you see he doesn't have drop + tanks yet, then you can expo safely. If he has siege and this is LT, build a CC in your main, and expo when you feel safe against a cliff drop. 2.) Put up an armory, ebay, and expo. Pushing is always preferable, but it's not viable if he's walled in. But you can expo pretty safely, long as you can get turrets up. You may need to put up an academy first instead. If this is wrong, correct me please. I'm confident in TvT but no gosu. The way I understand it, wraiths can do very little damage themselves. They're large units and take full damage from turrets and golis. But they're very good at maintaining map control and supporting drops however, and you usually want to get wraiths of your own to keep your dropships from being sniped. The disadvantage is you have terrific ground superiority, and when you're dug in any position with turrets, he'll have a hard time taking you out. Either go wraiths yourself or keep your goli numbers up, and you'll be fine. I did scout though :/ I had an SCV in his base at around 2:40ish. i think i made a mistake with trying to snipe one of his SCVs with it though... should I scout MORE somehow? if so what should I do? Yeah, everything you said makes sense though. Also, I know I should build much more, but I've never been able to figure out when/how much SCVs to build. I've heard 2 per patch being optimal but I've seen many replays of progamers with much more but i'm not sure of the exact count or how to even count this properly during gameplay. | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
For academy/armory timing, i usually get them about when my second fact is 1/2 - almost done This gets scan up and golies about when he is starting wraith production (actually a bit b4) My standard build is 2 fact tanks, with a few marines early btw. I also didnt see the replay, but from what I hear, you went tank/vult, that is a bad idea usually, as vults get demolished after very early game. The mines can be good, but usually mech fires fast enough to kill the mines. One thing that helped me alot in getting started was DaZe's tvt guide (in recommended) | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
2 port overall i feel isnt a good build. The only time its good is if you catch your opponent pants down with it but they'll usually notice with their rax unless you proxy it but they'll still notice that you only have 1 fact and only like 1 tank/few vults at most. | ||
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
Yeah, I thought so. | ||
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Tinithor
United States1552 Posts
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5HITCOMBO
Japan2239 Posts
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flag
United States228 Posts
On March 30 2008 16:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote: i remember someone did a test and found 2.3 is the best amout per patch. But no ones gonna count i guess when you notice that you have alot of scvs you stop. 2.3 might be optimal for fastest map possible, but 3 is optimal for pro maps. And the difference between 2.9 and 3 is significant, don't ever skimp on scvs unless you are going for some sort of timing attack or think you'll need to defend against one. | ||
Empyrean
16956 Posts
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ahrara_
Afghanistan1715 Posts
On March 30 2008 16:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote: i remember someone did a test and found 2.3 is the best amout per patch. But no ones gonna count i guess when you notice that you have alot of scvs you stop. 2 port overall i feel isnt a good build. The only time its good is if you catch your opponent pants down with it but they'll usually notice with their rax unless you proxy it but they'll still notice that you only have 1 fact and only like 1 tank/few vults at most. I don't think vultures are a bad choice at all. They afford you early map control and can deny your opponents an expansion. And if they do something shitty like 2 port w/o wall in, gg. It's preferable on rampless maps, but the mine upgrade is worth being able to get an expo up considerably faster than your opponent. On rampless maps with wide chokes, if your opponent didn't wall in he must reply with vultures, or he gets run over. | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
Standard rax->gas->1st fac-> FE Academy+armory Add 2nd fac. Add your two comsats. Add 2 more factories. The key is to not waste scans. Wait until your goliaths are under the blurb of the wraiths to attack (He'll back off anyway since he sees you have scan, which is all the better for you). In the meantime, that buys you plenty of time to get an e-bay and 2 turrets at each base. Problem solved. I'm not a terran player primarily, but that's roughly my TvT build, except I'm not as paranoid and start acad/armory after starting my 2nd factory. Also, 2 port wraith is a pretty weak build in general-bordering on cheesy. If you rush it, it's extra cheesy since you're down an expo if it fails. If you do it after your first expo it's a pretty normal build but you usually transition into dropships from there. Hope that helps. | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
On March 30 2008 09:41 RtS)Night[Mare wrote: oh boy.. You beat the rush by scouting it. You didnt scout at all. If you scouted you could've made turrets or golies lol west is about as bad pub games that is | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On March 31 2008 10:28 DamageControL wrote: lol west is about as bad pub games that is Proof of why you're wrong | ||
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