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On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally.
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I use spacebar sometimes when my minerals are at the bottom of my cc so it jumpes a bit down. Easier to send your workers to work. Other than that i use it more at random times. Like when you're playing tvz and you're in your build-group-attack routine. That's when i usualy forget something and i hit the spacebar in between my routines. Other than that it really helped me listen to commands. Now i hear when a update is done and immediatly hit the spacebar to start the next.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally.
Unnacceptable. Warning sent.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent.
o_O really was that unacceptable. i guess its not about space bars and Fx keys but it was sorta relevant to the alert thing.. .
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CA10828 Posts
On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent. what was unacceptable about that comment? everything he stated was basically true.
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I use f2-f4 for many years. As terran, f4 main f3 nat f2 third exp. It helps me transfer workers quickly (storm drops, any attacks) and during opening/early midgame I shift from cc to cc to make workers without doubleclick (con: less apm, but I don't have bwchart). There was time f2 was for factories, but its as fast as minimap click or one fac hotkeyed. Almost forgot, f2 in TvZ is for barrack cluster. It doesn't give you a lot, compared to 10-20 clicks during macro, first purpose its more usefull.
I see people using spacebar... havent tried it after first few minutes, there is so many things going on that spacebar shouldn't be trusted, at least in my opinion.
As for "unacceptable", its most likely for being an ass. GrandInquisitor didn't say he never look on minimap, it was made up by responder. Not to mention: looking at minimap has nothing to do with f-keys, different topic.
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On January 07 2008 15:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2008 23:32 kpcrew(Gg) wrote:
when i play tvp i usually put f2 as my factories and f3 as my rally point to bring reinforcements to the battlefield more efficiently, it helps me macro more efficiently
i dont use the arrow keys like BoxeR does though No one does besides BoxeR. I never seen anyone besides BoxeR use arrow keys maybe the blind guy BoxeR played.
Not true. I have seen several other pros use the arrow keys to keep the cursor centered,  TheMarine for instance. . .
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but do you really get an alert when your units are being stormed? I do not remember getting any.
Good tips on using f# for expansions. Thanks.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 08 2008 04:13 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent. o_O really was that unacceptable. i guess its not about space bars and Fx keys but it was sorta relevant to the alert thing.. .
Ugh, are you serious?
Read the tone GI wrote in. He says he uses space bar as a reflex to any alert. He doesn't say that he ignores the minimap and shuts his eyes until he hears an alert.
Now read the tone NumberMan used. He twists it around so he can troll on GI, saying so basically you suck ass and never use the minimap (which GI didn't even say). This kind of shit is unacceptable and used to drive me fucking insane when I wasn't a mod here and I won't let it happen while I see it. You can't twist someone's words to use it against them and insult them. If GI said he never looked at the minimap then that would be a fine reply.
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On January 08 2008 05:02 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2008 04:13 alffla wrote:On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent. o_O really was that unacceptable. i guess its not about space bars and Fx keys but it was sorta relevant to the alert thing.. . Ugh, are you serious? Read the tone GI wrote in. He says he uses space bar as a reflex to any alert. He doesn't say that he ignores the minimap and shuts his eyes until he hears an alert. Now read the tone NumberMan used. He twists it around so he can troll on GI, saying so basically you suck ass and never use the minimap (which GI didn't even say). This kind of shit is unacceptable and used to drive me fucking insane when I wasn't a mod here and I won't let it happen while I see it. You can't twist someone's words to use it against them and insult them. If GI said he never looked at the minimap then that would be a fine reply.
But if you were watching the minimap, it doesn't make sense to use the spacebar. The fact that you're using spacebar implies that you're not using the minimap to watch out for stuff. It's not like GI is going to watch the minimap intently, watching the drop, waiting for his units to get killed, then presses spacebar to go there. If GI used the minimap frequently, spacebar is of no use when it comse to running away workers etc.
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On January 08 2008 07:28 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2008 05:02 Chill wrote:On January 08 2008 04:13 alffla wrote:On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent. o_O really was that unacceptable. i guess its not about space bars and Fx keys but it was sorta relevant to the alert thing.. . Ugh, are you serious? Read the tone GI wrote in. He says he uses space bar as a reflex to any alert. He doesn't say that he ignores the minimap and shuts his eyes until he hears an alert. Now read the tone NumberMan used. He twists it around so he can troll on GI, saying so basically you suck ass and never use the minimap (which GI didn't even say). This kind of shit is unacceptable and used to drive me fucking insane when I wasn't a mod here and I won't let it happen while I see it. You can't twist someone's words to use it against them and insult them. If GI said he never looked at the minimap then that would be a fine reply. But if you were watching the minimap, it doesn't make sense to use the spacebar. The fact that you're using spacebar implies that you're not using the minimap to watch out for stuff. It's not like GI is going to watch the minimap intently, watching the drop, waiting for his units to get killed, then presses spacebar to go there. If GI used the minimap frequently, spacebar is of no use when it comse to running away workers etc.
Spacebar doesn't have to be used for just enemy alerts, it can be used when a unit get produced, and then you press it, click the building...I suppose at higher levels, its probably not needed, but we don't all have pinpoint internal clocks.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On January 08 2008 07:28 skyglow1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2008 05:02 Chill wrote:On January 08 2008 04:13 alffla wrote:On January 08 2008 01:10 Chill wrote:On January 07 2008 21:09 64565462 wrote:On January 06 2008 03:17 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I always use spacebar. In early game it's an easy way to get back to your CC/nexus quickly, but for midgame, it's really just a reflex now to any alert. If I hear something that I shouldn't (like YOUR BUILDINGS ARE UNDER ATTACK aka drop, or someone attacked my army and I didn't notice so YOUR FORCES HAVE ENGAGED THE ENEMY), I hit spacebar immediately to get to the action.
so basically you are always one step behind your opponent as each reaction you make is too slow and too late. what good is seeing your workers getting stormed if you could've moved them away 10sec before that storm even came - eyes are your biggest ally. Unnacceptable. Warning sent. o_O really was that unacceptable. i guess its not about space bars and Fx keys but it was sorta relevant to the alert thing.. . Ugh, are you serious? Read the tone GI wrote in. He says he uses space bar as a reflex to any alert. He doesn't say that he ignores the minimap and shuts his eyes until he hears an alert. Now read the tone NumberMan used. He twists it around so he can troll on GI, saying so basically you suck ass and never use the minimap (which GI didn't even say). This kind of shit is unacceptable and used to drive me fucking insane when I wasn't a mod here and I won't let it happen while I see it. You can't twist someone's words to use it against them and insult them. If GI said he never looked at the minimap then that would be a fine reply. But if you were watching the minimap, it doesn't make sense to use the spacebar. The fact that you're using spacebar implies that you're not using the minimap to watch out for stuff. It's not like GI is going to watch the minimap intently, watching the drop, waiting for his units to get killed, then presses spacebar to go there. If GI used the minimap frequently, spacebar is of no use when it comse to running away workers etc.
There's no need to say that in a trollish, abrasive attitude, as 5345345 did. Yes, ideally you would see the drop coming. In the case you didn't, the second fastest way to react to it is slamming the spacebar. That's all GI said.
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On January 06 2008 06:09 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2008 06:02 humblegar wrote:On January 06 2008 02:04 Hittegods wrote:On January 05 2008 22:19 Jumbalumba wrote:
I thought spacebar brings you to the area where the last notice/transmission or event happened (apart from nuclear launch detected since you don't know where that is). So if the last thing was a battle, it takes you there. If the last thing was a DT killing your workers, it takes you there. That is correct. I use spacebar a lot, it's really helpful imo. Then again I suck. Only if the DT hit something else than workers, afaik workers die in one hit and do not create an "under attack" message. Yeah I know, can you say imba? I like when you have +1 carapace and the dt doesn't have attack upgrade yet, you actually get a freaking warning when theres ninjas in your mineral line.
woowwww, i didn't know about that. so you mean that +1 carascape is a good defense for dt drop? haha. i wonder if that is a feasible alternative to fast muta/ scourge for dropships...
edit: but then again, i guess a fast dt drop build is easily distinguishable from a fast +1 zealot rush build... namely, if you see a forge or not. i would still go fast mutas to scout though. when i get fast lurkers, i still get 1 muta+2 scourge to scout and kill dropships in their base. if i don't see cannons, i make more mutas. ugh, mutas suck on bnet.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Who fast DT drops Zerg? What are you talking about?
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On January 08 2008 08:29 Chill wrote:
Who fast DT drops Zerg? What are you talking about?
bisu I think, however Im kinda confused what a "bisu BO" is, beause everyone defines it in a different way
I thought bisu BO = cors/dt -> dt drop -> dt harass (or some other form of worker/building harrass including storms/reavers)
(Im not trolling)
By the time you will get +1 carapace, he might have +1 attack anyway (or if he drops fast, you wont have the armor...)
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Calgary25980 Posts
Bisu build is more of a concept than a build order. You can see several different variations that are still called "Bisu build". I think in its original form it's simply fast expanding, getting a second gas faster than "normal", using many Corsairs to clear the skies, and then following with Dark Templar harassment before getting Observers, High Templar and finally adding many Gateways. Occasionally Dark Templar are gotten after Reaver harassment, but that's still often refered to as Bisu build.
Rushing +1 Carapace is neither a counter to a Bisu build, nor a Dark Templar drop (Which I still don't understand... like doing the PvT DT drop build against Zerg?)
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admin provoked offtopic discussion  GOLD.
to add some input. f keys can be REALLY helpfull to rerally in mid//late game for terran//toss just shift +f2 center of your buildings , shift +f3 place u want to rally. and then just f2 select f3 right click f2 select f3 ....... and so on. it can give your rally points "Flexibility and speed" .
however i cannot remember it , and still i'm using right click minimap by instinct and sometims i find big mess in place which should be my gather point .
and about space bar. it is usefull tool especially for macro, but it isn't something which should be primary aspect of control (just a bonus) since it creates delays . if something is happening which you are not aware off spacebar can provide few ms advantage over manually finding wtf is going on (and in case of reaver every part of time matters), so its always nice to be aware of availability of using this button
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On January 05 2008 22:19 Jumbalumba wrote:
I thought spacebar brings you to the area where the last notice/transmission or event happened (apart from nuclear launch detected since you don't know where that is). So if the last thing was a battle, it takes you there. If the last thing was a DT killing your workers, it takes you there.
wins, cant believe 2-3 people gave the wrong answer! they should be temp banned 
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On January 08 2008 04:41 meathook wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2008 15:05 Ilikestarcraft wrote:On January 05 2008 23:32 kpcrew(Gg) wrote:
when i play tvp i usually put f2 as my factories and f3 as my rally point to bring reinforcements to the battlefield more efficiently, it helps me macro more efficiently
i dont use the arrow keys like BoxeR does though No one does besides BoxeR. I never seen anyone besides BoxeR use arrow keys maybe the blind guy BoxeR played. Not true. I have seen several other pros use the arrow keys to keep the cursor centered, TheMarine for instance. . . Also, correct me if I am wrong, but do you really get an alert when your units are being stormed? I do not remember getting any. Good tips on using f# for expansions. Thanks.
ah i never saw a themarine fpvod. Have to check it out. I guess people still use it but it isnt common.
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On January 08 2008 08:24 doc.x wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2008 06:09 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On January 06 2008 06:02 humblegar wrote:On January 06 2008 02:04 Hittegods wrote:On January 05 2008 22:19 Jumbalumba wrote:
I thought spacebar brings you to the area where the last notice/transmission or event happened (apart from nuclear launch detected since you don't know where that is). So if the last thing was a battle, it takes you there. If the last thing was a DT killing your workers, it takes you there. That is correct. I use spacebar a lot, it's really helpful imo. Then again I suck. Only if the DT hit something else than workers, afaik workers die in one hit and do not create an "under attack" message. Yeah I know, can you say imba? I like when you have +1 carapace and the dt doesn't have attack upgrade yet, you actually get a freaking warning when theres ninjas in your mineral line. woowwww, i didn't know about that. so you mean that +1 carascape is a good defense for dt drop? haha. i wonder if that is a feasible alternative to fast muta/ scourge for dropships... edit: but then again, i guess a fast dt drop build is easily distinguishable from a fast +1 zealot rush build... namely, if you see a forge or not. i would still go fast mutas to scout though. when i get fast lurkers, i still get 1 muta+2 scourge to scout and kill dropships in their base. if i don't see cannons, i make more mutas. ugh, mutas suck on bnet.
Usually the emphasis in modern ZvP is on getting your +1 carapace ASAP in order to counter his fast +1 attack. Of course, if your drones have 40hp 1 armor and dts do 40 dmg (unupgraded), the drones take two hits to die and thus you receive a warning after the first hit. Unfortunately, I can only see this working up until he gets his +1, as protoss +1 adds two damage instead of one, meaning for the same effect I think you'd need +3 carapace :p
In response to Chill, it's not necessarily for a dt drop, I find it helps when he's harassing my third with a hidden ninja before I can get overlord/sunken in place, it's a lot easier to react to.
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EPT
