I tried on the left L spawn and it seems the early builds are much slower because the best 4 patches are on the right or top Apocalypse spawns

For example, 4 pool at 0:36 is my best on left L spawns, 5 pool at 0:41

so for the fastest 9 pool, by the time you get to 9 workers there are enough fast mining patches to compensate, but for 4 pool it's just slower so you shouldn't try it because the game is often decided by the lings getting there seconds before the enemy is ready to respond

iopq

United States996 Posts

August 30 2024 03:26 GMT

#22

9 pool then 6 lings then hatch -> hatch at 2:09 but I feel like it might be possible to do better

I tried 9 pool 8 overlord and no gas trick and it was a second slower (I didn't get larva blocked because overlord was ordered at 1:11. but you lose less money to the gas trick than delaying your drones)

mtcn77

Turkey604 Posts

September 11 2024 18:51 GMT

#23

On June 14 2024 21:01 iopq wrote:
it might look something like this:

[image loading]

When is the overhatch drone time? 1:21 is hatchery time, when is the #10 drone time?
PS: according to the timetable, zergling times are;
4 pool: 1:40,
5 pool: 1:48,
6 pool: 1:55,
7 pool: 2:01,
8-9 pool: 2:06. What are the times between bases for slow zerglings? 26 seconds is quite a lot despite map sizes.
PS 2: that is 98 frames. I think you can get to any near base in that time period except 96x96 and above cross spawns.

8882

2718 Posts

September 12 2024 23:01 GMT

#24

On April 18 2024 23:02 iopq wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm talking about ladder maps. Take any position, they should be roughly equivalent (except left might be worse in some builds)

If you mean that minerals are on the left side from the hatch - you can use the "select overlord + larva -> press stop" trick -> to move the larvas to the left side of the hatch.

Then the eggs are on the left side, so technically you can move the drones to minerals that 1 second faster.
(although later on selecting them is a bit painful)

iopq

United States996 Posts

September 13 2024 08:23 GMT

#25

On September 13 2024 08:01 8882 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I've already been doing that, but I usually move them a second or two before I order the drone (it's pretty hard to time it, though)

if you group them all in the same place, the eggs will be in the same location making the drones stuck when they don't have a command card yet, so it's most efficient to only get them a part of the way there or to alternate ordering from not moved and moved larvae

but still, the top location in dominator just mines faster than the bottom (which is left side minerals with the #2 mineral removed and the #10 mineral added)

the best 5 are all 75 mineral a minute on Dominator, which is only possible with manual boosting on the bottom spawn when you use the #8 mineral and perfectly boost it every cycle

it's also possible on the #9 if you move it slightly to the left, but not too much where it boosts every other time - but it's not perfectly repeatable every time

the #1 and the #3 are also manually boostable by clicking on the mineral when the drone is 1/3 of the way to it

so it ends up you need to move the larvae to the left side while boosting three different mineral patches, get a lucky auto-boost on the #9 just to match the automatic mining of the top for four of the patches, and the top spot still wins for 5 drones and more

mtcn77

Turkey604 Posts

September 13 2024 17:44 GMT

#26

Can we separate low economy vs high economy builds since I know most of Flash's timings are high economy, meaning seconds matter.

iopq

United States996 Posts

September 14 2024 10:18 GMT

#27

On September 12 2024 03:51 mtcn77 wrote:
When is the overhatch drone time? 1:21 is hatchery time, when is the #10 drone time?

You can get a 1:26 drone right before the third larva pops on the hatchery

This makes overhatch the most economical build without any blocking of the hatchery larva

so you can do 1:21 hatch, no larva block, then 2:08 third hatchery at third at 11 if you're going three hatch before pool (2:10 drone, another drone, 2:34 pool)

if you do a normal 11 hatch, it's more like nat hatch 1:31, third expo hatch 2:06 and 2:31 pool

so the biggest economy you can have without getting larva blocked is actually overhatch, but you need a good spawn and to boost your minerals

9 hatch is further delayed, you get a 1:12 hatch, 1:18 drone (6 seconds larva block) and then like a 2:11 third hatchery because you had to extractor trick to prevent getting larva blocked again and a 2:37 pool

so by the time the third hatchery finishes, the overhatch build wins against anything economy-wise

iopq

United States996 Posts

January 26 2025 12:07 GMT

#28

one thing I forgot to mention is if you upgrade the expansion hatchery to a Lair, it needs to be done for 8 seconds to get two larvae at lair immediately

so if you 11 hatch you shouldn't upgrade the Lair hatch for a 2:48 clickup (a mistake I've made myself) even if it's a couple of seconds late

you need to do like overhatch into drones into pool + gas to upgrade the expansion hatchery

edit:

I've tried it and the hatch timing vs. gas timing is unreliable. I strongly suggest just doing gas on either 2:00 or 2:14

iopq

United States996 Posts

March 30 2025 13:21 GMT

#29

third base, 7 mutas, and +1 started by 5:27

it's with speed, but only one pair of lings

larva is optimized (pops up right before Lair) despite it being a 9 hatch build because my larva gets blocked for approximately 15 seconds (so it's like I skipped a larva and with the 1:14 hatch it's equivalent to 1:29)

would have been better if I placed the hatch faster since I had money for it at 1:12

https://repmastered.icza.net/game/iSYzS18ZCKWgsdYP3948Mj8hWhYxWebLUSQzOtbWzkc

iopq

United States996 Posts

April 22 2025 09:57 GMT

#30

I tried with three hatcheries to get larva out faster, but because the gas goes down later and we don't have the money to start mining it before spire, we're 100 gas short (so we can skip speed to get the same timing, but get a third hatchery instead)

but without speed there's no guarantee we don't die to stim rushes without a colony already set up to morph

so an entirely unrealistic build where the terran leaves you alone would be:

1:12 9 hatch
1:18 drone
1:28 overlord
1:39 gas trick to get another drone
2:01 pool
2:06 gas
2:54 Lair
18 ov
18 3rd hatch
21 spire
21 gas
immediately colony
26 ov
26 ov

start 7 mutas and then wait for gas for +1
5:24 we start the +1, but we don't have speed (but we have 3 hatcheries so we should start it anyway)

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