EPTalso what I do against fast double expo before gateway?
I have not figured these out 10~15 years ago, and I am still clueless :D
someone explain please.
Some .... strategy question about TvP
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States758 Posts
also what I do against fast double expo before gateway? I have not figured these out 10~15 years ago, and I am still clueless :D someone explain please. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
Double expo before gateway I believe you mean 12 nexus -> keep making marine, tak 6-8 scv, rally vulture and try to kill it. It's hard on cross position. | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On October 25 2021 22:30 kogeT wrote: Gas steal -> 15/17 CC expand or 2 barrack is possible if protoss also goes for some front gateway. Double expo before gateway I believe you mean 12 nexus -> keep making marine, tak 6-8 scv, rally vulture and try to kill it. It's hard on cross position. An alternative to going all in is getting vulture with mine quickly and mine up the map to slow down Protoss and keep tabs on where they are at. | ||
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Highgamer
1475 Posts
And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead? One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes. Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On October 25 2021 22:27 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: So guys... what do I do against gas steal in TvP also what I do against fast double expo before gateway? I have not figured these out 10~15 years ago, and I am still clueless :D someone explain please. By double exp u really mean nexus nexus gate? If so P is dead. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
On October 26 2021 09:07 Highgamer wrote: KogeT, by "15/17 CC expand" against gas steal you mean: start the CC either before or after starting the first marine? And when or depending on what do you decide to destroy the Assimilator (and how many SCVs do you use in addition to the marines you can spare?) and when do you build it in the natural instead? One should point out that killing the 12nex doesn't mean that Terran is ahead, it just means that the game is about evened out - unless Protoss lost too many probes. Normally it just means: Retreat in time, because many goons will few-shot the forward bunker and be pressuring the natural, soon. SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc. For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc. | ||
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bovienchien
Vietnam1152 Posts
Let's do your best. Don't afraid of your opponents. You can check my build from challenge 3rd 100 games that I've been running in my fanpage: StarCraft Remastered VN. | ||
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Highgamer
1475 Posts
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote: SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc. For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc. Hey, thx anyway. I know such basic questions can get advanced players into somewhat of a predicament to "sum up" what cannot be summed up. Expert's dilemma. I still appreciate your recurrent efforts to offer help. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5890 Posts
On October 27 2021 00:21 kogeT wrote: SO when you go in detail there are so many small adjustments you need to do / know.. I gave a high level explanation. Obviously protoss can do anytihng from gas steal into nexus, gas steal with gate in base, gas steal with gate at your natural, then he can make 1-4 zealots etc.. Each thing requires different answers, different gas timing, different priority on marine / expanding / killing the gas or making it in natural etc. For 12 nex if you do it correctly you are usually ahead if you know how to continue. Sometimes it is best to contain on 1 base, sometimes 1 fact 1 port is better, sometimes a turret ring is better, sometimes you want to expand and outmacro protoss, sometimes you want to expand into timing etc. I think that's my biggest problem with this MU: Protoss can do anything. xD | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On October 27 2021 03:54 maybenexttime wrote: I think that's my biggest problem with this MU: Protoss can do anything. xD Well in the end it's basically just attack, defend or expand. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
On October 28 2021 05:52 Zoler wrote: Well in the end it's basically just attack, defend or expand. How about harrasing to pretend defending while expanding..? Starcraft is not chess, insuffecienty information gives more dimensions to these 3 basic ideas, at least at the execution level, conceptually you are correct. | ||
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GGmano
103 Posts
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radley
Poland582 Posts
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CHEONSOYUN
631 Posts
On November 01 2021 13:15 radley wrote: I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs. literal defeatist/losing mentality. also if you’re going to most likely lose to zealot pressure going for a barracks, and this is so common at lower levels, why would you say that these same losers should instead gamble on a build that will? | ||
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krooked
376 Posts
On November 01 2021 13:15 radley wrote: I think on B rank and lower levels its better to go 13/14 cc build most games, than try rax expand. The reason is simple - if protoss goes forward gateway zealot you gonna be still in losing position going rax expand due to bad micro. Using cc first u will lose immediately and dont lose more time prelonging game, looking for miracle that usually won't happen. But if protoss scouts late and goes for dragon first, you are in very good position, even better if he went 12 nexus. Just need to scout for 3rd base early on and if so go for some quick 4 fact push allin, cutting scvs. Or learn to sim city, scout for zealot moving across the map, don't rally marines to ramp if you're not going to pay attention etc. It really isn't that hard dealing with forward zealot. | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
against nexus first, you should pull 7 scvs if you scout it in time then just fuckin attack with marines and rally a vulture so it arrives shortly after your bunker is started. then just fuck him up and try to kill probes, but if you dont kill probes you're even. welcome to tvp | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
On November 02 2021 08:43 CHEONSOYUN wrote: literal defeatist/losing mentality. also if you’re going to most likely lose to zealot pressure going for a barracks, and this is so common at lower levels, why would you say that these same losers should instead gamble on a build that will? I literally did explain why, but looks like you can't get it. I don't lose against forward zealots pressure, but often set myself back because of not handling it perfectly. Note that I only compare 13/14 cc to 15 rax first cc. And I'm rather micro player, which makes me around lower S rank of standard players in those terms ;o | ||
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GGmano
103 Posts
On November 05 2021 03:49 radley wrote: I literally did explain why, but looks like you can't get it. I don't lose against forward zealots pressure, but often set myself back because of not handling it perfectly. Note that I only compare 13/14 cc to 15 rax first cc. And I'm rather micro player, which makes me around lower S rank of standard players in those terms ;o You @radley have same problem with understanding what people explain to you, so why you surprised when others dont get what you explain. Ive seen some of youre streams, you where definatly having issues with battles against protoss.. zerg you seemed to handle better. isnt S rank for those who win money on playing sc? | ||
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radley
Poland582 Posts
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GGmano
103 Posts
i only stated the stupidity that you shouldnt shitpost on others asking them why they dont understand you while you clearly have same issue youre self. please dont start other discussions. | ||
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