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Everyone knows about muta micro but how about muta macro?
I watched many soma's games recently and I noticed that soma's muta army always builds up like 5,7,11...and not like 6,9,12... It makes sense because 5 mutas do one-shot marines and 7 mutas do one-shot SCVs. So the key number for muta army is 5 and 7. And 11 is obviously a number for full control group minus one overload.
That means macroing muta by spamming 5sm 6sm is not efficient. For example, when you have 3 mutas and have 3 larvae you should hatch 2 mutas and 1 drone instead of hatching 3 mutas. If you have 6 larvae you should make 4 mutas and 2 drones.
This is a great discovery.
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First of all you should never have 3 larva as zerg, except when you save them to hath muta from all of them. So no, this is not a great discovery. And amount of mutas is very specific for a build order you take, so making 5 or 7 mutas specifically is usually a mind-game oriented build where you want to fool your opponent into going mutas but in reality you tech faster or go lurker.
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I think he means 3 larvae total across all three hatches? Then you should 5sm 6sm 7sd, instead of 5sm6sm7sm. But what OP suggests means you get up to the desired muta number (e.g. 11) slower, so I'm not sure that it's optimal.
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mmmm, But isnt this the basic concept of the modern 2 hatch with early 3rd ? I mean main hatch and natural produces mutaslisks, while the hidden 3rd is producing the drones.
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The real muta macro tip is hotkeying all of your larva to the control group you will want them on (i like 1) before the spire finishes. As soon as the spire is done you hit your hotkey and then "m." Less APM needed overall. Plus your muta will all hatch at the same time (and slightly faster) and be hotkeyed already if you wait for them all to hatch before pressing the hotkey.
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On December 09 2020 22:23 kogeT wrote:
First of all you should never have 3 larva as zerg, except when you save them to hath muta from all of them. So no, this is not a great discovery. .
The one thing I was always told when playing as Zerg is always keep your larva down.
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On December 24 2020 17:19 TelecoM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2020 22:23 kogeT wrote:
First of all you should never have 3 larva as zerg, except when you save them to hath muta from all of them. So no, this is not a great discovery. . The one thing I was always told when playing as Zerg is always keep your larva down.
Well yea as long as you dont need the cash for buildings. You should either be producing drones or attack units or expansions at all times. The lesson is more "keep your cash low" rather than larvas low.
This is kind of the same principle with all races except that Zerg with many hatcheries can produce all workers at once where T/P cannot.
But yea if you make 10 hatches and cant use all larvas you somewhere kept building too many hatches that probably could have gone into army/drone instead. This is however viable in later stages of the game where you can remake your full army in seconds.
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Pretty much what Koget said imo.
One thing that Soma does extremly well is the mind game.
For example, i havent seen many top level zerg other than Soma using strategy like 5 mutas harass into droning, and from there rehatching mass mutas again with strong econ.
He is very good to properly using this bo, may be along with Killer.
Anyway, op's thoughts are having myself wondering: how does top level zergs are managing this considering the potential loss of any mutas? Are they hatching 1 extra muta? 2? Soulkey's games could possibly answer this.
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Russian Federation376 Posts
Never seen zerg makes 5 mutas out of 6 larvas with 600 min/600 gas.
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On December 25 2020 05:23 TornadoSteve wrote:
Pretty much what Koget said imo.
One thing that Soma does extremly well is the mind game.
For example, i havent seen many top level zerg other than Soma using strategy like 5 mutas harass into droning, and from there rehatching mass mutas again with strong econ.
He is very good to properly using this bo, may be along with Killer.
Anyway, op's thoughts are having myself wondering: how does top level zergs are managing this considering the potential loss of any mutas? Are they hatching 1 extra muta? 2? Soulkey's games could possibly answer this.
oh that's interesting, I haven't noticed that
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On December 25 2020 02:25 MeSaber wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2020 17:19 TelecoM wrote:On December 09 2020 22:23 kogeT wrote:
First of all you should never have 3 larva as zerg, except when you save them to hath muta from all of them. So no, this is not a great discovery. . The one thing I was always told when playing as Zerg is always keep your larva down. Well yea as long as you dont need the cash for buildings. You should either be producing drones or attack units or expansions at all times. The lesson is more "keep your cash low" rather than larvas low.
This is kind of the same principle with all races except that Zerg with many hatcheries can produce all workers at once where T/P cannot. But yea if you make 10 hatches and cant use all larvas you somewhere kept building too many hatches that probably could have gone into army/drone instead. This is however viable in later stages of the game where you can remake your full army in seconds.
No, its not. Koget/Telecom got it right the first time - your main macro focus as Zerg should be spending larva efficiently. Once you have macroed larva properly, then you spend your leftover $ on more hatches/tech/upgrades.
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On December 09 2020 22:23 kogeT wrote:
First of all you should never have 3 larva as zerg, except when you save them to hath muta from all of them. So no, this is not a great discovery. And amount of mutas is very specific for a build order you take, so making 5 or 7 mutas specifically is usually a mind-game oriented build where you want to fool your opponent into going mutas but in reality you tech faster or go lurker.
There are many occasions where you would let Larvae build up for the benefit of having resources to invest into something else, like tech or an additional expo. The great thing about Zerg macro is that you can interrupt it for short periods without much impact on total unit output or economic growth. You should not allow 3 Larvae to just sit there though, and if there are multiple Hatches with 3 Larvae each and not enough money to use them all immediately, it is best to make one unit at each Hatch first to keep all the spawning cycles going.
A thought about the OP: Going in steps of odd numbers of Mutas from 2 Hatches in effect only means to squeeze in a Drone at the beginning (or any other step) of the cycle. Assuming no Mutas are lost, it's just normal pair production after that. So I don't see how this would be a big problem in theory. I'll have to actually watch some closely to see what he's really doing.
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EPT
