WCSZvP Zero's new 9734 build
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jinjin5000
Korea (South)759 Posts
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Sigrun
United States1636 Posts
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ortseam
977 Posts
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Alpha-NP-
United States1158 Posts
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jinjin5000
Korea (South)759 Posts
On August 18 2019 01:15 Alpha-NP- wrote: I will enjoy this video later tonight. I would love some Protoss strategy tutorials translated. There were hardly any on the Translated thread. Thanks a lot! I have them what | ||
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art_of_turtle
United States913 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States6889 Posts
On August 18 2019 07:47 art_of_turtle wrote: Toss will now opt to not play on Overwatch, and when we get it it will only be Zerg's and Terrans. This is an overpool into 4 hat hydra.. a Jaedong-esque build from 2010, the difference is the the 4hat is a base. It isn't map dependent at all. It is a combination of Sauron zerg... the real sauron style not the inaccurate liqupedia sauron zerg and a Junwi massage (r.i.p) I have been using this as my default for 10 years or so. It is stable and makes bad protoss over react hard. I cannot wait until you guys see what happends if Protoss goes Ham and decideds to quickly attack the 4th.... The 4th will be Sacked and Zerg rushes the natural qnd lurker upgrade will be complete about the same time. It is a fake base trade situation. This has been propping up my poor mechanics for a long time. For people that want to see real sauron zerg, there is an fpvod of a zerg named enough on lost temple or a replay hosted here by x'ds~kiwi that showcase what the term actually meant back then, not the revisionist stuff that sprouted up and was rigorously and inaccurately defended by people who weren't around on battlereports.net and the other old dead sites of yesteryear. Back on topic - this build will be insanely hard for most zergs... the amount of surface area that you can be attacked and the surface area you must scout are beyond demanding. This opens the door to every single Bisu tactic you have ever seen.... infact Bisu is the reason lair-less zvp died in Saviors time.... and Bisu just left the military so... give him a few weeks and he will masterclass this ish | ||
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Ej_
45957 Posts
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Shinokuki
United States579 Posts
On August 18 2019 14:18 AttackZerg wrote: This is an overpool into 4 hat hydra.. a Jaedong-esque build from 2010, the difference is the the 4hat is a base. It isn't map dependent at all. It is a combination of Sauron zerg... the real sauron style not the inaccurate liqupedia sauron zerg and a Junwi massage (r.i.p) I have been using this as my default for 10 years or so. It is stable and makes bad protoss over react hard. I cannot wait until you guys see what happends if Protoss goes Ham and decideds to quickly attack the 4th.... The 4th will be Sacked and Zerg rushes the natural qnd lurker upgrade will be complete about the same time. It is a fake base trade situation. This has been propping up my poor mechanics for a long time. For people that want to see real sauron zerg, there is an fpvod of a zerg named enough on lost temple or a replay hosted here by x'ds~kiwi that showcase what the term actually meant back then, not the revisionist stuff that sprouted up and was rigorously and inaccurately defended by people who weren't around on battlereports.net and the other old dead sites of yesteryear. Back on topic - this build will be insanely hard for most zergs... the amount of surface area that you can be attacked and the surface area you must scout are beyond demanding. This opens the door to every single Bisu tactic you have ever seen.... infact Bisu is the reason lair-less zvp died in Saviors time.... and Bisu just left the military so... give him a few weeks and he will masterclass this ish yeah you're partially right. THere's some nuianse to this build that zero did not fully disclose because he needs to sell his lecture vids. This bo is pretty much single handedly destroying pvz right now. Koreans and pros are calling this 111 but here's the take.... ready? .... it's flash's 111 but can be executed by anyone s + ranks on ladder. Zero has been using this nonstop and destroyed 4 protoss and has 70% win rate. he destroyed bisu 4x straight times. Soma just used this and destroyed bisu as well and everyone.... korean scene is changing rapidly. | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1103 Posts
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InDi
Spain69 Posts
Thoughts of other fellow P´s facing this? | ||
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AttackZerg
United States6889 Posts
On August 18 2019 16:20 Shinokuki wrote: yeah you're partially right. THere's some nuianse to this build that zero did not fully disclose because he needs to sell his lecture vids. This bo is pretty much single handedly destroying pvz right now. Koreans and pros are calling this 111 but here's the take.... ready? .... it's flash's 111 but can be executed by anyone s + ranks on ladder. Zero has been using this nonstop and destroyed 4 protoss and has 70% win rate. he destroyed bisu 4x straight times. Soma just used this and destroyed bisu as well and everyone.... korean scene is changing rapidly. TBH, I am hoping I am wrong and it is able to become a stable meta ... I play 4 or 5 hat before lair ZvP almost every game, the fake hydra all-in and forcing cannons during the window toss builds 4 gates has let me beat players much stronger then me. But mechanically, against +1 starport builds, if Toss is able to get in one decent punch, it can snowball into an avalanche of harassment. The neatest thing Zero did (imo) was using the first larva at his third hat to build 2 lings.... anticipating the slow trickle of zealots. Stork just beat this build in a very enjoyable game that is in the "casual games of the week thread". He basically played a Bisu midgame after opening Reaver -> starport and even with Zero's wonderful reflexes and prophylactic army placements, Stork harassed him into a box, defended against the lord drops and then used storm and army placement to trade incredibly efficiently. Mini's zealot opener FE would be really strong against him, esp with the very late scouting or fake FE into 3 gate speedlots could also punish this pretty hard. Glad to see the strategy section with such current and interesting information. Thanks OP. | ||
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ggsimida
531 Posts
On August 18 2019 18:59 InDi wrote: I am facing this every single PvZ in Korean server... but so far going for stargate + robo reaver + gates is working extremely well. Thoughts of other fellow P´s facing this? yup bisu just slaughtered zero with this :D | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria447 Posts
On August 19 2019 02:07 ggsimida wrote: yup bisu just slaughtered zero with this :D He did and I swear, I've never been that satisfied watching drones die by scarabs. Specifically that one by the ramp on the third. | ||
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BigBalls
United States5352 Posts
I'm only a ~1625 Protoss player, but have been getting destroyed by the 1550-1750 versions of this. I was thinking I'd just go citadel first, which not only allows me to get +1 attack quicker (since citadel only 100 gas instead of 150 for stargate), but quicker bustout with speed and storm. Also thought about possibly getting an early goon to attack the overlords and make it so I can rush to DT to defend my front, but that may require a slightly different wall on specifically Overwatch. What's his fork if he doesn't see a stargate? The hydra den is already done by the time the cyber core is finished. I assume going sair/reaver is better if he has a subtle switch, but citadel is better if he just plows ahead with the build once he's already at ~24 supply. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile1643 Posts
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AttackZerg
United States6889 Posts
My gut says there is a way for zerg to pull everything back and rush into lurker-crackling. +2 attack is crucial for breaking sunken lurker entrenchments and armor is needed before 2-2 crackling or zerg can muscle you off the map. Interesting to see where it goes. Seems like no dt or templar time is fast enough and if you delay gates too long, zerg will outmacro you to death. | ||
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InDi
Spain69 Posts
On August 19 2019 08:47 BigBalls wrote: Very cool stuff, ty for the translation jinjin. I'm only a ~1625 Protoss player, but have been getting destroyed by the 1550-1750 versions of this. I was thinking I'd just go citadel first, which not only allows me to get +1 attack quicker (since citadel only 100 gas instead of 150 for stargate), but quicker bustout with speed and storm. Also thought about possibly getting an early goon to attack the overlords and make it so I can rush to DT to defend my front, but that may require a slightly different wall on specifically Overwatch. What's his fork if he doesn't see a stargate? The hydra den is already done by the time the cyber core is finished. I assume going sair/reaver is better if he has a subtle switch, but citadel is better if he just plows ahead with the build once he's already at ~24 supply. At 1600 MMR this might be hard to handle, but you are not taking the right approach, and it is something that at higher level sometimes isn't that obvious either. You NEED the Stargate, else you are completely blind to what Z is doing, you lose all map control. It could be 9734 or it could be 973 into 6hatch hydra... or whatever. If you try to get +1 zeals quicker, the Z will most likely have enough hydras to hold with a bit of micro, and already you are likely to lose the +1 forge if the Z has the timing right. Your objectives should be: 1- Hold the first hydra push while scouting to see Z's followup 2- Build a sizable mid game army 3- Push out and secure 3rd and 4th bases while cornering Z. At higher levels this 3 steps are achieved via sair and reaver harrass to reach a mid game situation where you can face the Z army. Try to focus on the right way of doing it, it could take a toll on your MMR at the moment, but it will help you improve in the long run | ||
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Cold_King
Bulgaria2 Posts
As a zerg player i find it difficult to handle mass zealots push at 4-th base. Also it's tricky if and when i decide to push the natural with the hydras - on one hand i am afraid that i will throw away my advantage and on the other hand you can close the game right there... That build is good against 1 gate opener, because the protoss runs back as soon as he sees the hydras and his tech is also delayed because of the opening and the resource spent for zealots. | ||
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InDi
Spain69 Posts
Zero did a variance on this which is 973 followed by a 4th hatch in a 4th exp then be economical behind this while you build 10 hydras to break the forge+gate and make P warp a bunch of cannons. | ||
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