Hi guys, I have a question to ask: I don't know how to react properly when an SCV is trying to block me from putting down my hatch (before I have lings out).
There might be better examples of good responses out there but this is what I've found (timestamped video below):
Would you please advice me on the best way to respond? I don't know what Shine did that allowed him to stay fixed in that position. Is he spamming attack and stop?
Edit: Another example can be seen at ~1:45. It looks like he might be spamming stop to me, but I don't know.
For now what I would do is send 2 drones at 12/18 and moving shot the SCV until its HP is too low to continue blocking and put down the hatch then. I don't think this is the best way.
Edit: Only talk about ZvT please. I want to know how to deal with a worker if I want to plant a hatchery right there. I know about overpool and making a third first in ZvP.
Against Terran you literally take 3 more drones and kill the engineering bay block. It's actually necessary.
If it's just the scv you kill it with 2 drones like you said. There's no other way. Anything else delays your second gas too much. You can't just place an off hatch and long distance gas before the nat is done, that's just a meme at that point.
It's actually extremely rare that I have my hatch delayed vs Terran on a 4 player map. Like it honestly happens less than 3% of the time. This may have become an issue for you at lower levels because the Terrans at your tier are less concerned with the efficiency of their build order. It can happen more on 2 players maps but you can either a.) 11 hat, so you that you're putting it down more quickly b.) use scout drone and hatchery drone to ward off scv as quickly as possible. Regardless, I wouldn't worry too much about this aspect of the game. You will deal with it often in ZvP but ZvT it's almost non existent at the higher levels.
Edit: Also, to further illustrate my point, you posted a video of a ZvP in reference to "ZvT only"
shrug with total indifference. Have a drone attack the scv, with your extra money you could put down a macro hatch right beside your normal placement [especially on maps with bigger naturals]. More often than not terrans will just cancel the engineering bay a few seconds after placing it, evidently as confused as you are as to why they would even bother.
@iopq i dont see how it would delay your gas mining in any serious sense if your three hatching.
Thanks for the reply everyone. I see that there isn't a magic solution besides using 2 workers to attack the enemy worker or building a hatch at another location (at another base of beside the intended location at the natural).
Anyway, could someone please tell me what was Shine doing in the video that allowed him to stay in the centre?
He doesn’t do anything other than a lot of moving shots with the drone, forcing Bisus probe to lower hp, and just is aggressive rather than passive so the acid spores are affecting where the probe can go. When the probe moves far enough away he puts the hatchery in the square. If toss blocks with a pylon or t with an eBay, just put the hatchery somewhere else until ur Lings destroy his scout and whatever buildings. He will be behind spending money that early to delay you as well.
On October 16 2018 05:04 JieXian wrote: Anyway, could someone please tell me what was Shine doing in the video that allowed him to stay in the centre?
I think, in the situation you were talking about, he didn't do anything in particular to "stay in the centre" - the drone even moved to the left a bit in the end, following the probe. Right before that, he was simply placing the drone right in the centre and then spamming a-move on the ground, I think. He got lucky that the probe moved right past the drone so that he hit the probe twice without the drone starting to move.
In general, the key to attacking with workers is to move-command them into the right location first (close to the target, in hit-range) and then to a-move on the ground (or right-click). You can see Shine do this in the beginning in the main-base a few times. To do this, oftentimes you have to feel/anticipate where the target will move to. If you just a-move with workers or right-click a target, they try to follow it but decelerate all the time, turn slowly and their attack is a bit delayed. They are just dumb that way.
For moving-shots: you follow your target with move-commands aiming past your target to catch up if possible, once you get your worker in range, you a-move quickly, then move-command again immediatelly to keep moving.
On October 16 2018 05:04 JieXian wrote: Thanks for the reply everyone. I see that there isn't a magic solution besides using 2 workers to attack the enemy worker or building a hatch at another location (at another base of beside the intended location at the natural).
Anyway, could someone please tell me what was Shine doing in the video that allowed him to stay in the centre?
You could try hold positioning the drone? Just select the drone and the overlord and hit hold.
On October 16 2018 05:04 JieXian wrote:Thanks for the reply everyone. I see that there isn't a magic solution besides using 2 workers to attack the enemy worker or building a hatch at another location (at another base of beside the intended location at the natural).Anyway, could someone please tell me what was Shine doing in the video that allowed him to stay in the centre?
You could try hold positioning the drone? Just select the drone and the overlord and hit hold.
I know about hold position but it isn't what Shine is doing. Another example can be seen at ~1:45. It looks like he might be spamming stop to me.
On October 15 2018 23:05 Q~Bert wrote: This may have become an issue for you at lower levels because the Terrans at your tier are less concerned with the efficiency of their build order.
...
You will deal with it often in ZvP but ZvT it's almost non existent at the higher levels.
Hahahaha. @BigFan, someone is calling you a low-tier inefficient noob!
On October 16 2018 00:36 Dazed. wrote: shrug with total indifference. Have a drone attack the scv, with your extra money you could put down a macro hatch right beside your normal placement [especially on maps with bigger naturals]. More often than not terrans will just cancel the engineering bay a few seconds after placing it, evidently as confused as you are as to why they would even bother.
@iopq i dont see how it would delay your gas mining in any serious sense if your three hatching.
You never cancel the EB after placing it, reason is you need to add barrack immediatetly after anyway and if lings are coming canceling EB doesnt give you any more time but still may delay lings and nat expo.
On October 16 2018 05:04 JieXian wrote:Thanks for the reply everyone. I see that there isn't a magic solution besides using 2 workers to attack the enemy worker or building a hatch at another location (at another base of beside the intended location at the natural).Anyway, could someone please tell me what was Shine doing in the video that allowed him to stay in the centre?
You could try hold positioning the drone? Just select the drone and the overlord and hit hold.
I know about hold position but it isn't what Shine is doing. Another example can be seen at ~1:45. It looks like he might be spamming stop to me.
On October 15 2018 23:05 Q~Bert wrote: This may have become an issue for you at lower levels because the Terrans at your tier are less concerned with the efficiency of their build order.
...
You will deal with it often in ZvP but ZvT it's almost non existent at the higher levels.
Hahahaha. @BigFan, someone is calling you a low-tier inefficient noob!
haha it's ok, I forgive him! Also, I don't really ebay block an expansion in a ZvT, but sure, I'll keep blocking it with my scout as much as I can :D
Usually after seeing you put ur hatch down on the ramp or offset in the natural, Terran will cancel that ebay to save minerals. If he doesn’t his expand will be just as delayed as yours so while it isn’t ideal for Zerg it isn’t a life sentence
On October 19 2018 16:16 Yanokabo wrote: Usually after seeing you put ur hatch down on the ramp or offset in the natural, Terran will cancel that ebay to save minerals. If he doesn’t his expand will be just as delayed as yours so while it isn’t ideal for Zerg it isn’t a life sentence
I was more thinking of this scenario: the scv is blocking your hatchery (no ebay) but when he sees you put your second hatch off he checks that you have a pool, starts his CC and then builds his ebay (no marine since you didn't go pool first, you can even cancel a marine that's been building to get a faster CC)
even if you pull drones to kill the ebay your third hatchery will be delayed and your second gas will be delayed
so placing an off hatchery doesn't solve the issue
In that scenario that u mentioned the Terran has saved up 675 minerals to do his build order and that’s just talking buildings, so z by then should be able to make hatch + pool , = 500 minerals, and then have some time to sneak in 3rd hatchery. But you can always pull 2 drones kill the scv making the eBay, and the kill off 100 hp of a unfinished eBay to destroy it in just under 30 seconds or so
Iopq does make a good point in that a Zerg rushing hydras will want his natural exp in the right place so he can defend mech threats such as a vulture runby which needs creep in the proper spots and etc. being a terran user myself I look at the theorycraft of stuff like this a lot, and scouting mathematical probability says that yes this blocking move is strong on maps like desti or hbr and weak on maps like fs. Terran can also consider using a supply depot to save 25 minerals on the up front cost and maybe another 20 minerals on the cancellation.
On October 20 2018 12:39 Yanokabo wrote: In that scenario that u mentioned the Terran has saved up 675 minerals to do his build order and that’s just talking buildings, so z by then should be able to make hatch + pool , = 500 minerals, and then have some time to sneak in 3rd hatchery. But you can always pull 2 drones kill the scv making the eBay, and the kill off 100 hp of a unfinished eBay to destroy it in just under 30 seconds or so
if you watch the VOD, the ebay is at like 500 hp by the time the drones get to it and the scv stops making it and runs off
On October 21 2018 06:55 Yanokabo wrote: Yeah. Effort chooses to 12 p in that vid, but I’d like to 12 hatch just in the left offset to retain tempo. Especially against flash.
you're going to have to kill the ebay with pure drones then, I'm not sure what's better
just put an engineering bay in your natural in the map editor and do both builds, see which one is better
EPT
Also, I don't really ebay block an expansion in a ZvT, but sure, I'll keep blocking it with my scout as much as I can :D
