Any idea of a thread explaining each buildings block properties? Some maps you can easily depot + barracks and it's a complete wall off, other maps you wall with two depots + a barracks and lings can run in either side of the barracks.

Would be really useful to know. All i know is gateway above forge - impassable. nothing else tho

TelecoM

United States10674 Posts

August 18 2017 18:22 GMT

There are some pretty informative threads about this if you use the search function or Liquipedia.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Fighting_Spirit#Terran_vs_Protoss_1_Rax_FE_Wall-Ins

lovepenny1

3 Posts

August 18 2017 18:31 GMT

Thx, doesn't really explain the theory behind it though. The 11 oclock terran wall in ,can lings pass above that barracks? also, they could pass a barracks on the right if a depot was on the right, is that true also in the case of 5 oclock?

kogeT

Poland2039 Posts

August 18 2017 18:39 GMT

Barrack - Depot is ling safe only if depot is on top of barrack. Same 2 depots make a full wall if one is on top of another. Building depot side by side make it so marines and lings can go through, zealots cant. Same Barrack and depot to the right - only marines and zergling can go through, zealots cannot. Rest of depot - barrack positions are not safe vs either ling or zealot.

Also factory + barrack make a safe wall (factory on the right side). Same factory + depot on it is a full wall.

lovepenny1

3 Posts

August 18 2017 18:52 GMT

very educational thank you koget

Highgamer

1410 Posts

August 18 2017 19:37 GMT

Another thing to add might be that there are no rules you can go by to always improvise a tight wall on different maps. It depends on how exactly the edges/cliffs/ramps etc. are placed. You can get pretty close most of the time if you're used to walls on a couple of maps, but the only way to be sure is to test it in the single player or to learn the walls by heart from screenshots.

If you're Terran, check this out:

Walling

Liquidpedia is very helpful in general, should be your first stop, right before using the search function. The guide I posted a link to is linked on Liquidpedia too.

wind`

6 Posts

August 19 2017 03:02 GMT

The theory behind wall-ins and why some building placements produce inconsistent 'tightness' is due to the sizes of the 'gaps' on each side of a building.

Liquipedia - Unit & Building Sizes

This is the link that has the data that you want. It lists the sizes of the units, and also the sizes of gaps that buildings have on each of their sides. The gap sizes are very inconsistent - for example a supply depot has a gap of '5' on the bottom but '10' on the top. Barracks have a gap of '8' on top and '15' on the bottom.

If you have a supply depot directly above a barracks, the gap inbetween will be: 5 + 8 = 13.
If you have a supply depot directly below a barracks, the gap inbetween will be: 10 + 15 = 25.

This is why wall-ins tend to have supply depots above a barracks. The gap of 13 means that only units of a height of less than or equal to 13 will be able to fit. No unit besides the scarab fits this criteria, so it is practically a 100% tight wall. A gap of 25 means that zealots and zergling will be able to fit through, as they have a height of 19 and 16 respectively.

Here's a good Liquipedia article (Walling) that explains the concept further.

JungleTerrain

Chile799 Posts

August 19 2017 08:46 GMT

If you really want to test wallins yourself for different buildings and races with specific conditions, I recommend getting SCMDraft, the map editor. It is extremely helpful in this case, and it's much better than just taking everyone's word and reading outdated threads or articles about what people think are the actual sizes. You'll be able to visualize it yourself.

You are able to see collision boxes (which is what the guys here are referring to but don't exactly have a name for). Each unit is comprised of a collision box and the 2D art sprite that goes on top of the unit, this is why "the looks" don't match the actual size of the buildings.

Then, find unprotected versions of maps you want to test or get a map unprotector which allows you to open maps like Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breaker, etc. (all the ladder maps, or even others). There you can test things out yourself so you can come up with layouts that work for you for each map.

For example: Here I have Arcadia open in SCMDraft.
+ Show Spoiler +

In the picture, I put locations over the buildings to show how their grid placement on the map doesn't reflect their collision box.
You can see that the zealot is wider than zerglings and marines, and that marines and zerglings are about the same width but marines are "taller". This explains why depot right of barracks is zealot-tight but not marine or zergling tight. You can also see that the gap between depot on top of barracks is ling tight. The picture also shows that mineral patches have perfect collision boxes in relation to their grid placement, which is why they wall with basically any building that is adjacent to it.

Downloads:
SCMDraft Download page. The newest build is the one at the top of the list.
I don't want to post an unprotector download here, but you can easily get one if you just search "Unused Unprotector 2" on google.

Here are the options you want/need if you want to test walls on a map:
+ Show Spoiler +

To see collision boxes:
Debug (on the top right side)>Enable Debug... Now you can select Debug>Show unit collision sizes

Overlay Settings>Use Defaults OFF
Microtile Overlay>Impassable

Options:
Grid>(whatever is to your liking here, "Normal" is what the game uses to place buildings)
Units>Buildings Snap to Tile ON
..........Units Snap to Tile OFF

wind`

6 Posts

August 19 2017 19:57 GMT

On August 19 2017 17:46 JungleTerrain wrote:
Here are the options you want/need if you want to test walls on a map:
+ Show Spoiler +

This is much better than testing in-game, thanks for this!

Concerning SCMDraft, I have a question. It does not allow me to place units within matrices that are occupied by a building, even though there is enough space for the unit to exist. Is there a setting that allows me to place units within these spaces?

JungleTerrain

Chile799 Posts

August 20 2017 20:45 GMT

#10

On August 20 2017 04:57 wind` wrote:

Show nested quote +