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On January 30 2017 20:30 kogeT wrote:
I recently watched some game of Avernum (when he was in ToT) vs Testie TvP and I nearly got cancer from watching it. xD It's funny how these top performers of these days looked like current C- players.
pfff.. Testie could give you trouble, players back in the day were skilled but the metagame was different. just look at his iccup account he's curently A-, or look a Dinot who recently came back, he's A+ and 7th place on the ladder. Both after many years of not playing the game have been defeating players left and rigth in just one season and getting A- or better
https://iccup.com/en/starcraft/gamingprofile/AngryTestie32.html
https://iccup.com/en/starcraft/gamingprofile/mym.dinot.html
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Norway28908 Posts
I actually checked Testie's stats a little more. Looking at his match list since he became b-, he is 7-15 against players that were b- or higher when he played them. I'm sure he's improving fast though, but based on the game list he looks way worse than the average a- player.
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Norway28908 Posts
Dinot is a different story though.  Really glad to see him back, he was one of my favorite players to watch before he quit.
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On May 26 2017 12:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:Dinot is a different story though. Really glad to see him back, he was one of my favorite players to watch before he quit.
Yeah Dinot was one of the best foreigner zergs between 2008-2010 he was very agressive, loved hydras, his lategame was sometimes a bit sloppy, but when he was able to put himself together at this stage he was brilliant. i still remenber his games during TSL against Rondo, and Jianfei, he defeated idra during group stages of TSL, and the liquibition games he had against Jianfei were amazing. also i remenber him playing against Idra(when idra was training in korea) during the Highlander tournament and Dinot defeated hiim 3-0, i believe idra cryied in rage xD
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Norway28908 Posts
yeah I remember him as a really aggressive but really and creative player. Not really impressed by people cheesing with 3 hatch ling or hydra semi-allins, but he'd pull off really crisp builds with slow overlord drops and stuff. That stuff I love.
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On March 12 2017 01:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Disagree completely, and I've consistently argued, for some years now, that 'racist' is a term that is thrown around (far) too frequently, and that the term has largely lost its poignancy and usefulness for that reason. But Testie telling a guy to 'stop being such a nigger' because he was listening to rap and speaking ebonics, I have no problems defining that as being racist. Either way, I've had quite lengthy discussions with Testie about this, and he literally argues that black people are more criminal because they have worse genes than white people and asians. He's a self-admitted racist by any definition.
I know Testie and he isn't a hateful guy at all.
Not that I agree with him, but in his defense, it's a well-established fact that there's more criminality among black people in almost every nation, whether they're a minority or majority population (it's just a matter of statistics). To deem someone a racist just for wanting to explore the role genetics might play in criminality, is very regressive and anti-science.
If you don't think there's any genetic component to criminality, then what is your competing theory/explanation?
You've skipped past refuting his argument and gone straight to attacking him and calling him a racist, so surely you must have an explanation that isn't in any way racist. I'd love to hear it.
User was warned for this post
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I haven't checked the literature, but I am sure racists are more likely to be criminal.
BTW, the definition of racism is pinning behavior and race together. And with our understanding of biology, that would ought to happen through genetics.
Also, you are a racist or not regardless of if it is true or not. I don't know how you can say that 'merely exploring the science of genetics and race' is not racist.
Furthermore, minorities are more likely to be criminal, regardless of their ethnicity. So clearly, what we do see now has all to do with social position (being poor and having no opportunities) primarily, and culture (only having bad role models, hearing about others that you cannot do certain things because of your ethnicity, your environment promoting the wrong values, etc), not genetics.
Competing theory? Even if genes decide who is criminal and who is not, that isn't about race. There is more genetic variety among individuals than among races. In the case we do find causation between crime and genetics (which we might), every ethnicity will have just as many 'crime genes' as any other one. That's the main argument against racism. Humans are such a young species, there is extremely little genetic variation and individual trumps ethnicity by a long shot.
BTW, we humans always pinned negative traits on other ethnicities. It was never a fair exploration of the facts. Just a way to explain away our made up negative stereotypes.
Well, you basically proposed the racist position here, which we know is scientifically wrong. Furthermore, it led through extremely immoral acts in the past, and still damages our societies today. I shouldn't be arguing with you. I should be shaming you and ridiculing you.
One shouldn't argue with racists. They have lost that privilege.
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On May 28 2017 19:52 Ernaine wrote:
I haven't checked the literature, but I am sure racists are more likely to be criminal.
BTW, the definition of racism is pinning behavior and race together. And with our understanding of biology, that would ought to happen through genetics.
Also, you are a racist or not regardless of if it is true or not. I don't know how you can say that 'merely exploring the science of genetics and race' is not racist.
Furthermore, minorities are more likely to be criminal, regardless of their ethnicity. So clearly, what we do see now has all to do with social position (being poor and having no opportunities) primarily, and culture (only having bad role models, hearing about others that you cannot do certain things because of your ethnicity, your environment promoting the wrong values, etc), not genetics.
Competing theory? Even if genes decide who is criminal and who is not, that isn't about race. There is more genetic variety among individuals than among races. In the case we do find causation between crime and genetics (which we might), every ethnicity will have just as many 'crime genes' as any other one. That's the main argument against racism. Humans are such a young species, there is extremely little genetic variation and individual trumps ethnicity by a long shot.
BTW, we humans always pinned negative traits on other ethnicities. It was never a fair exploration of the facts. Just a way to explain away our made up negative stereotypes.
Well, you basically proposed the racist position here, which we know is scientifically wrong. Furthermore, it led through extremely immoral acts in the past, and still damages our societies today. I shouldn't be arguing with you. I should be shaming you and ridiculing you.
One shouldn't argue with racists. They have lost that privilege.
If there was this much emotion and stigma attached to aeronautics, we'd still be trying to reach the moon.
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Norway28908 Posts
On May 28 2017 19:32 pomwine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2017 01:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Disagree completely, and I've consistently argued, for some years now, that 'racist' is a term that is thrown around (far) too frequently, and that the term has largely lost its poignancy and usefulness for that reason. But Testie telling a guy to 'stop being such a nigger' because he was listening to rap and speaking ebonics, I have no problems defining that as being racist. Either way, I've had quite lengthy discussions with Testie about this, and he literally argues that black people are more criminal because they have worse genes than white people and asians. He's a self-admitted racist by any definition. I know Testie and he isn't a hateful guy at all. Not that I agree with him, but in his defense, it's a well-established fact that there's more criminality among black people in almost every nation, whether they're a minority or majority population (it's just a matter of statistics). To deem someone a racist just for wanting to explore the role genetics might play in criminality, is very regressive and anti-science. If you don't think there's any genetic component to criminality, then what is your competing theory/explanation? You've skipped past refuting his argument and gone straight to attacking him and calling him a racist, so surely you must have an explanation that isn't in any way racist. I'd love to hear it.
Dude, if you say 'black people are on average less intelligent and more likely to be criminal and this is determined by their inferior genetics and therefore we must stop immigration from africa because their inferior genes are bound to make our society worse', that is racist. There's no way around that. I agree that racist is a word with a highly contested definition, I agree that it is a word that has been thrown around too lightly, and if you want to argue that Testie's use of 'nigger' on his stream doesn't make him a racist, then whatever, be my guest. But he has presented the argument I put in quotation marks on several occasions, and every single working definition of racist will define that statement as racist.
Frankly, to me, it sounds like you're trying to say that you yourself is racist, but you don't want to be branded that way, so people shouldn't use this word to describe what the word actually means, but that just makes no sense to me.
And for the record, I consider Testie a friend. But he is a racist. Twitch banned him for expressing his racism because they don't tolerate it. It's not any more complicated than that.
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Croatia9565 Posts
Guys, check the name of the forum you're in. Then check what you're talking about.
Stop it.
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Watched a 2006 Sandlot tournament game between Testie and Sea.Jang last night.Great game!
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On May 28 2017 22:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2017 19:32 pomwine wrote:On March 12 2017 01:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Disagree completely, and I've consistently argued, for some years now, that 'racist' is a term that is thrown around (far) too frequently, and that the term has largely lost its poignancy and usefulness for that reason. But Testie telling a guy to 'stop being such a nigger' because he was listening to rap and speaking ebonics, I have no problems defining that as being racist. Either way, I've had quite lengthy discussions with Testie about this, and he literally argues that black people are more criminal because they have worse genes than white people and asians. He's a self-admitted racist by any definition. I know Testie and he isn't a hateful guy at all. Not that I agree with him, but in his defense, it's a well-established fact that there's more criminality among black people in almost every nation, whether they're a minority or majority population (it's just a matter of statistics). To deem someone a racist just for wanting to explore the role genetics might play in criminality, is very regressive and anti-science. If you don't think there's any genetic component to criminality, then what is your competing theory/explanation? You've skipped past refuting his argument and gone straight to attacking him and calling him a racist, so surely you must have an explanation that isn't in any way racist. I'd love to hear it. Dude, if you say 'black people are on average less intelligent and more likely to be criminal and this is determined by their inferior genetics and therefore we must stop immigration from africa because their inferior genes are bound to make our society worse', that is racist. There's no way around that. I agree that racist is a word with a highly contested definition, I agree that it is a word that has been thrown around too lightly, and if you want to argue that Testie's use of 'nigger' on his stream doesn't make him a racist, then whatever, be my guest. But he has presented the argument I put in quotation marks on several occasions, and every single working definition of racist will define that statement as racist. Frankly, to me, it sounds like you're trying to say that you yourself is racist, but you don't want to be branded that way, so people shouldn't use this word to describe what the word actually means, but that just makes no sense to me. And for the record, I consider Testie a friend. But he is a racist. Twitch banned him for expressing his racism because they don't tolerate it. It's not any more complicated than that.
I see what you mean and I agree with you. The problem is that the definition of the term "racist" is overly broad to the point that it could reasonably be applied to almost every living person, therefor it's only going to be useful as a term if we find meaningful ways to distinguish between people who are or aren't racist, and there's a lot of room for interpretation here.
You draw the line at some combination of language (saying N), having an idea that's negative and only applies to a specific race (or subset of races), and/or wanting one's national foreign policy to reflect those negative ideas.
I draw the line at when there's hate behind these sentiments, or when they're just totally irrational. I know that isn't the case with Testie. He's not hateful, and his ideas are at least in part the result of incontrovertible statistical data. He's just trying to understand a problem and find the solution.
And where we draw that line is important, because if we're too loose with the term, it becomes nothing more than an ad hominem logical fallacy that shuts down discourse. Free exchange of ideas is required if we're ever going to make progress on this (in either direction), and the way people use that word has had the effect of making people unwilling to even enter the conversation in the first place.
So to your point, my great grandfather getting angry whenever he sees an Asian person taking pictures, because he thinks they're a spy, I'd say that makes him a racist. A person in the KKK, they're incredibly angry and antagonistic, we can safely say they're racists.
When my Chinese girlfriend says she won't walk home alone at night because there are a lot of black people in this city, I don't think that's racist. Anecdotally, if you've ever followed behind an attractive girl who's walking alone in this city, you'll see she gets harassed every block, almost exclusively by black males. If you look at the statistics, black males are vastly more likely to commit sexual assault and forcible rape than any other race.
If you accept that anecdotal evidence and the statistics, you can't deny that if she modifies her behavior to avoid walking alone in areas with higher black populations, she will experience less sexual harassment, and be less likely to be assaulted or raped.
Some say that's racism, some say it's pragmatism. You can call it what you want, but she'll be safer walking with me, and I really don't see the use in shaming her for it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Testie said last night in his stream that his old best matchup was ZvT. It is pretty cool he started playing again. Nony Naugrim Oystein are examples of players that have come back.
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On July 05 2017 22:25 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Testie said last night in his stream that his old best matchup was ZvT. It is pretty cool he started playing again. Nony Naugrim Oystein are examples of players that have come back.
Wait, Nony is back too?!?! Where did you see this?
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He was on Twitch a few times.
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On July 06 2017 02:47 Alpha-NP- wrote:
He was on Twitch a few times.
He was only playing the Campaign, it seems.
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Watched him stream a couple games yesterday. I believe his apm averaged around 160-170 so obviously protoss is his best race. Only race you can play like that and get away with it (noob race. Easiest thing in the game to just make pylons and a few Zealots. Toss is the reason Shuttle can win games on the pro scene with 240 APM). He did beat a few E class Koreans though.
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Someone is salty about Protoss.
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On July 08 2017 00:45 traxamillion wrote:
Watched him stream a couple games yesterday. I believe his apm averaged around 160-170 so obviously protoss is his best race. Only race you can play like that and get away with it (noob race. Easiest thing in the game to just make pylons and a few Zealots. Toss is the reason Shuttle can win games on the pro scene with 240 APM). He did beat a few E class Koreans though.
interesting point of view, tell us more about it please
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EPT
