"I suck horribly (like, 20% win rate) vs mech openings...i feel like i must be missing something hardcore"
Make a sunken to stop the initial vult and then a hydra den walling your nat incase of speed vults and get some hydras incase of wraiths. Then get muta and the close 3rd base and 4th base. Get +1 air armour and continue making muta for a long while, pinning Terran back. Don’t actually engage the goliaths in the terran main, only attack scvs and force the goliaths to hang around the terran main. If the goliaths are in the terran main then the muta are doing their job. If terran moves out too early with goliaths, back stab with the muta, force the goliaths home to defend. You can see Zero gets a 6th hat at his 3rd base and a 7th hat at his 4th base. Then get hydras with +1 attack and speed overlords. You can see Zero actually gets +2 air armour as well. The first big tip is to make muta, then hydra. The second big tip is to stay on lair and not get hive, and get muta, then hydra! The third big tip is to kill the army. When terran finally comes at you with his proper tank supported army, don’t back stab, kill his army. Fight him in the middle of the map with a massive surround. If you don’t kill it straight away, re-mass for as long as possible then fight his army head on again and keep chipping away at it until it dies. You have to kill the terran army or it will roll you.
Don’t take a 5th base too early, you will die. Don’t get lurkers, you will die. Don’t just ‘get a lot of shit’ (the classic Day9 quote that is still heard, unfairly to him). No, instead get muta, then hydra, stay on 4 base and stay on lair. When terran secures his 3rd, you can look to take your 5th base and hive for +3 upgrades eventually. If it properly goes to lategame, you can stay on muta and hydra, that’s fine. You do not need hive tech units. A good final unit composition is hydra with queens and spawn broodling instead of the muta. You can use drop tech to finish him off if he turtles.
Zero vs Ssak on FS Draemong Starleague Ro16 May 2015
Great post again CardinalAllin. How does this hold up against a 6 (?) factory goliath push? Versus this style of play I tend to go for hydralisks much earlier and only make around 11 mutalisks with +1 carapace to soak up damage.
I'd say day9's podcast "Stopping Mech" is still the leading authority on how to play versus a meching terran. Also, I'd disagree with going for a head on engagement. It's smarter to threaten the backstab to stall for more units. Then attack terran's army when you're sure you have enough units to kill a Terran. Any good meching Terran will make sure to absolutely not lose in such a straight forward scenario. Also, mass expanding is really good vs. a meching Terran. Day9 does say to "get a lot of shit" which is really good general advice, especially for zergs then and now who try to be extra cute w/ early hive defiler w/ lurkers. He emphasizes a point that a lot of players tend to completely miss by being overly complex and not having a clue what they're doing. He later iterates the point by talking about the utility of hydras, zerglings and staying on lair for a while in general. He also talks about the specific role of mutalisks in the matchup much like your post does somewhat. Also, lurkers are really good in the late game w/ defilers when you need to stall Terran or go for a large assault on a defended position. Getting a 5th base early is fine, exception being if Terran goes for a 2 base play which is not really efficient to begin with. Your post is okay in general, but I wanted to give a second opinion on some of your ideas and on what Day9 had to say.
edit. One more thing, I think to get the full 411 on how to play vs. mech, Day9's podcast is a great read really to get all the ins and outs as another source.
u can expand up to 5 bases and as much as you like depending on how much you harass with mutas. After getting 4 bases with enough drones, make 2 more chambers and queen's nest for hive. Make crap load of hatcheries and defilers. Swarm everywhere and just stop terran from expanding to his 4th base. Mix in queens as well. Overall very easy to deal with
thanks for the input guys, i was the initial noob who requested this!!! i'm horrible vs mech lmfao, i lose like ever game, although it generally doesn't go late. normally the terran will build up to a large army on 2 base and do a timing attack with his +1 vehicle attack, a whole bunch of goliaths, and tanks, then just rape me. i guess the problem is i either drone too hard because i'm expecting him to just play a longer eco game, or i drone too little and then he decides to eco and i can't effectively contain him on 3 or 4 base.
my play vs normal terran is actually very strong, even vs late game mech, it's just this period of not knowing wtf the terran is going to do before he takes a 3rd or kills me. (generally at this point im deciding between a 4th or more drones.
come to think of it, it's pretty similar to when I first started playing on fish and it seemed like every terran would ALWAYS bust me right before mutas popped and i just became really attuned to scouting for those kind of builds so now i don't lose to them anymore. it's also harder to practice vs mech openers since it's generally only like 1/10 that do it at most terrans hate playing that style during practice
On September 13 2016 07:11 Endymion wrote: thanks for the input guys, i was the initial noob who requested this!!! i'm horrible vs mech lmfao, i lose like ever game, although it generally doesn't go late. normally the terran will build up to a large army on 2 base and do a timing attack with his +1 vehicle attack, a whole bunch of goliaths, and tanks, then just rape me. i guess the problem is i either drone too hard because i'm expecting him to just play a longer eco game, or i drone too little and then he decides to eco and i can't effectively contain him on 3 or 4 base.
my play vs normal terran is actually very strong, even vs late game mech, it's just this period of not knowing wtf the terran is going to do before he takes a 3rd or kills me. (generally at this point im deciding between a 4th or more drones.
come to think of it, it's pretty similar to when I first started playing on fish and it seemed like every terran would ALWAYS bust me right before mutas popped and i just became really attuned to scouting for those kind of builds so now i don't lose to them anymore. it's also harder to practice vs mech openers since it's generally only like 1/10 that do it at most terrans hate playing that style during practice
An easy way to respond is if Terran doesn't get his 3rd base by x amount of time you can assume he's going for a heavier handed 2 base play. Then you just stop making drones at y supply which you should test out to see what works best. There's also sending in a muta or overlord directly to see what Terran is up to but you can pretty much assume they're going heavy fac play cuz there really isn't anything else you can do.
On September 13 2016 07:11 Endymion wrote: thanks for the input guys, i was the initial noob who requested this!!! i'm horrible vs mech lmfao, i lose like ever game, although it generally doesn't go late. normally the terran will build up to a large army on 2 base and do a timing attack with his +1 vehicle attack, a whole bunch of goliaths, and tanks, then just rape me. i guess the problem is i either drone too hard because i'm expecting him to just play a longer eco game, or i drone too little and then he decides to eco and i can't effectively contain him on 3 or 4 base.
my play vs normal terran is actually very strong, even vs late game mech, it's just this period of not knowing wtf the terran is going to do before he takes a 3rd or kills me. (generally at this point im deciding between a 4th or more drones.
come to think of it, it's pretty similar to when I first started playing on fish and it seemed like every terran would ALWAYS bust me right before mutas popped and i just became really attuned to scouting for those kind of builds so now i don't lose to them anymore. it's also harder to practice vs mech openers since it's generally only like 1/10 that do it at most terrans hate playing that style during practice
So your main problem seems to be the scouting. Concentrate on getting information by any possible way; using lings, ol sack, mutas and later with speed lords.
If he is busting you while youre still making mutas, you should put up more sunkens and go kill any reinforcements he is sending using your lings which you have on the map and the mutas that are about to pop. While you slow down the push with fresh sunkens be sure to pump units. Bring mutas back to break the push when you feel like you have enough. Be sure to scout his push strenght properly.
EPT
