EPTquestion about vultures/queens in tvz - Page 3
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SainT
Chile1067 Posts
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pr0n
United States277 Posts
On December 20 2006 08:34 wXs.Havok wrote: queen is not used BUT it is great. And you can mix it so fucking well with delfiler plague+ensare is fucking great. Also timely because it makes units CHRISTMAS COLORS! Someone needs to post a good replay of some nice green and red units in a ZvT. | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
You have queens nest pretty fast into the game. Just get a queen then. It'll easily be worth the 100/100. (300/300 if you want 2 queens + ensnare) | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
On December 21 2006 13:41 evanthebouncy~ wrote: Ensnare DOES affect attack rates. I bet 100000000000 dollars on that punk. I remember a thread where they discussed whether or not it did. It changes only the speed at which marines aim at a different target, and not the actual fire rate. As a result the rines aren't really affected in terms of shooting. | ||
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ToT)Testie(
Canada723 Posts
This a 1v1 type scenario of all units vs eachother. In attack speed. If you put these units vs eachother in a fight, they will win every time. If I leave a > sign there, it means that unit will always win vs the ensnared unit on level ground 1v1. Zerg: Ling > Ensnared ling Hydra > Ensnared hydra Lurker > Ensnared lurker (Yes, lurkers if ensnared before burrow will shoot slower). Muta > Ensnared muta Guardian > Ensnared guardian Devourer > Ensnared devourer Ultra = Ensnared ultra however the regular non ensnared ultra will win more fights, with 8, or 29 life remaining. The ensnared ultra can win too though so I assume it isn't really changed. So with zerg, all rates of attack are changed except ultra. Terran: Marine > Ensnared marine Stimmed marine > Ensnared stimmed marine Regular marine > Ensnared stimmed marine Firebat > Ensnared firebat Stimmed firebat > Ensnared stimmed firebat Regular firebat > Ensnared stimmed firebat Ghost > Ensnared ghost (it changes their rate of fire, but you won't notice probably unless it's vs something like a siege tank / bc etc..) Medic = heal rate unaffected Vulture > Ensnared vulture Tank = Tank (ensnared tank will likely lose a bit more often, but really the rate of fire isn't affected so much as turning the gun / moving is. Same with siege mode). Goliath = Goliath, air fire is also exactly the same. (again, ensnared gol will lose a bit more often.) Wraith > Ensnared Wraith Valk > Ensnared Valk BC > Ensnared BC Gol, Medic, and Tank are unchanged. Protoss: Zealot > Ensnared Zealot Dragoon > Ensnared Dragoon with 32ish life to spare. Dark Templar > Ensnared Dark Templar with 4 life to spare. Archon > Ensnared Archon with 50 shields to spare. Reaver = Reaver. But yes, ensnare still effects its already slow speed. Corsair > Ensnared Corsair Scout > Ensnared Scout Carrier = Carrier unless you ensnare only one carriers interceptors. And even if you do, they CAN still get off their remaining shots as the carrier blows up to destroy the other carrier so it barely matters. Reaver and carriers remain unchanged attack wise. The corsair and the carrier are a bit surprising to most, because you'd think with slow interceptors a carrier would blow. Nah, they're still really powerful. Corsair, you'd expect with that rate of fire for the other corsair to obliterate the other. But nah, 17-22 life usually on the non snared sair. But hey, that is still quite a few shots faster. Ensnare. The end. | ||
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ToT)Testie(
Canada723 Posts
They have their uses. I use them very often in TvZ. Look at Mondragons replay pack of vs me if he saved most of those games and you'll see them being used very, very efficiently in many cases as game winners. Most useful for certain timed builds / vs defiler users. | ||
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Cpt Obvious
Germany3073 Posts
or did you try them all out? if so, mad props, dude. | ||
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lykk
China38 Posts
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
Professional players don't use queens (in most situations). Professional players are much better than anyone on TL.net (yes, even leg, rek, frozen, LD, etc...) Pro players have more invested in the game than anyone on TL.net (it's their job) Thus, queens suck most of the time. We could theorycraft all day. But really, that's the simple way to test any strategy. I know, its pretty conformist, but still. It's like with scientists. We could argue all day that it would be easy to fly to pluto and back in day, but if NASA dudes say it's not possible with current technology, then you should trust the NASA dudes. | ||
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
or I use queens entirely against 2 fact terran while his army is still small --> double evo chamber, muta +1 attack upgrade, and ensnare. It works beautifully, and you can go to guardians. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
On December 23 2006 08:47 -_- wrote: No offense to LD, but queens suck (in most situations). And here's my argument. Professional players don't use queens (in most situations). Professional players are much better than anyone on TL.net (yes, even leg, rek, frozen, LD, etc...) Pro players have more invested in the game than anyone on TL.net (it's their job) Thus, queens suck most of the time. We could theorycraft all day. But really, that's the simple way to test any strategy. I know, its pretty conformist, but still. It's like with scientists. We could argue all day that it would be easy to fly to pluto and back in day, but if NASA dudes say it's not possible with current technology, then you should trust the NASA dudes. You say that 3 years ago about defilers when everybody was doing ultra/ling You say that 3 years ago when people used carriers more than arbiters You say that 3 years ago when people thought late game hydra/plauge sux balls You say that now whe people never used queens, will you say the same 3 years from now? | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
On December 23 2006 08:55 evanthebouncy~ wrote: You say that 3 years ago about defilers when everybody was doing ultra/ling You say that 3 years ago when people used carriers more than arbiters You say that 3 years ago when people thought late game hydra/plauge sux balls You say that now whe people never used queens, will you say the same 3 years from now? Defiler Ultra Ling was always used, what the heck are you talking about? Carriers (and arbiters) were always used, what the heck are talking about? Hydra plague SUCKS BALLS (ZVZ it sucks, ZVT it sucks, and ZVP is sucks, what am I missing? And who uses it regularly -- give me 5 reps from the same player), what the heck are talking about? There are 2 reasons why new strats become more popular. 1) Maps. Different maps, different strats. 2) Advancement of the game. But starcraft has been actualized. Its been selved. It's done. We're not going to find out that straight zealots are best PVT. Or that mass HTs are the way to go. And people have been bitching about how good queens are for years, and years, and years. They havn't caught on yet. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
On December 23 2006 09:08 -_- wrote: Defiler Ultra Ling was always used, what the heck are you talking about? Carriers (and arbiters) were always used, what the heck are talking about? Hydra plague SUCKS BALLS (ZVZ it sucks, ZVT it sucks, and ZVP is sucks, what am I missing?), what the heck are talking about? There are 2 reasons why new strats become more popular. 1) Maps. Different maps, different strats. 2) Advancement of the game. But starcraft has been actualized. Its been selved. It's done. We're not going to find out that straight zealots are best PVT. Or that mass HTs are the way to go. And people have been bitching about how good queens are for years, and years, and years. They havn't caught on yet. Pffffft I remember when I first joined this forum there's this TvZ in the rep section where hydra/plague was used. I even made a post about it and ppl laughed at me saying Lol that's nvr gonna work. But if you look at Savior's ZvT nowadays it's awesome plague usage. Wisen up. I can't believe you said "Starcraft is done" The sheer ignorance makes me want to punch you. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
On December 23 2006 09:14 evanthebouncy~ wrote: Pffffft I remember when I first joined this forum there's this TvZ in the rep section where hydra/plague was used. I even made a post about it and ppl laughed at me saying Lol that's nvr gonna work. But if you look at Savior's ZvT nowadays it's awesome plague usage. Wisen up. I can't believe you said "Starcraft is done" The sheer ignorance makes me want to punch you. Starcraft is done. There will only be new strategies because of new maps. Your love for starcraft has blinded you. Like I said, we're never going to find that straight zealots are the best way to play PVT on LT. Now there are styles. For instance, you might have a micro style and use queens sometimes (I think most non-koreans do this, and, coincidentally, non-koreans are worse). But that's not the best style. Pro gamers know how much time they should spend on micro and macro and they don't use them much. And what's this about hydra plague? I can see a Z user using plague with defilers and hydras (as has been done for all time), but hydra plague sucks, in most situations (at least compared to swarm ling ultra). The only way queens will ever be used is if there is a QUANTUM leap in skill, and people learn how to micro and macro perfectly at the same time. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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