• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:19
CET 11:19
KST 19:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool39Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Triple Green Farms CBD Gummies Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
U4GM Tips Counter Enemy Gadgets Fast in Black Ops rsvsr How to Keep Reward Chains Rolling in Monopol u4gm What to Do First in MLB The Show 26 Spring
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5377 users

TvZ: Two "All-ins" you need to know!

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-09 11:28:13
April 05 2014 03:40 GMT
#1
[image loading]
Prepped and ready!




Overview

This is a companion guide to my prior work, which gives a rough outline on doing a +1 5 rax into mech switch. Of course, there are many ways to go mech switch. You can do the old school 3 rax then factory build, which works just fine, especially against 2-hatch stuff, or you can do what Flash did on La Mancha and place three factories after going 5 rax. So, basically, there's a lot of room for variance, as long as you're thinking ahead (which takes planning for most people) and you're not playing like a scared little bitch.

So, I'm going to talk about two timing attacks that I really like (and sometimes hate when playing against when I haven't been practicing) and how you can use them as secondary strategies. So first, what do I mean by "secondary strategy"? Well, let's say you're playing on a map you're not as familiar with as your normal set of maps, or it really doesn't fit your strategy. If that occurs, you may need to alter your strategy somewhat. For example, if you play on Fighting Spirit, you may be used to having a really close third base with gas that is really easy to defend. Then you play on Grand Line and you have mineral base for your third. This doesn't mean you have to throw your strategy out of the window. You can take the far-away other main as your third or fourth depending on the situation.

It never hurts to practice alternatives to your more "standard" strategy, though. The two strategies I'm going to discuss are timing attacks, which some people might consider "all-in" or "cheesy". Regardless, you should never let someone's emotional feelings towards a strategy prevent you from playing the way you want. That should just go without saying, but sometimes people get into this mindset where they tell themselves "If I don't play standard, I will not be a good player, and I want to be good.", and you should absolutely not fall into that mindset. Maybe you just are struggling with TvZ and want to try something new, or you play Zerg and hate ZvZ, and just want some decent cheese strategy to kill other Zergs. Well... cool.



Ayumi

[image loading]
+ Show Spoiler [actual] +

[image loading]


The Ayumi build is a timing attack designed to kill Zerg before Lair units come into play. Your target is to hit the Zerg's sunken colonies by 6:30 into the game. You could easily accomplish this goal by doing some 1-base play, but the Ayumi build opens more "standard", so it is more difficult to read.

The build:
  • 9/10 - Supply Depot
  • 10/10 - Barracks
  • 12/18 - Go scout
  • 15/18 - Supply Depot
  • 20/26 - Command Center
  • 24/26 - Supply Depot
  • 29/34 - Add three barracks all at the same time, so send out three SCVs, and start putting down barracks
  • 35/44 - Refinery
  • 37/44 - Supply Depot (Stop producing SCVs at this point.)
  • 38 - Academy
  • @ 100% refinery - Transfer SCVs to your natural
  • 44/52 - Supply Depot

At this point, you cut SCV production entirely. Don't even think about making an SCV. Your marine production, however, should not stop. You should always be making marines until you have the academy, and then you make the medics, then more marines. You may note that your natural has almost no SCVs. You may want to maynard about 6 SCVs from your main to your natural.

  • - Academy completed - Research stim + make 4 medics simultaneously (you push out when you get the medics)
  • - Build your comsat add-ons
  • - Stim finishes - Research marine range


After you move out, you can build an engineering bay and resume SCV production, and in fact, I highly recommend you do in case you need to transition into a later-game build. The first time I tried this style of build out, my marines attack at 7:00 into the game. Yuck. I tweaked a few things and cut some corners to get that time down to 6:30. The clock is very important here, so I highly recommend trying this on an empty map, or versus the AI, and try to trim your time down as much as possible.

How this works: Sunken colonies are good against small numbers of marines. As soon as the marine numbers grow past 3 marines + 1 medic per sunken colony, the advantage shifts to the Terran player. If the Zerg has three sunken colonies, then you'll have about 14 marines, or 4.6 marines per sunken, plus four medics, which is enough to easily break through the defense, and still have enough stuff to continue attacking. This build will take some players by surprise because a sunken bust is typically executed from a one-base play, so then there's that.

[image loading]
It's important when doing the actual sunken bust to set your units up parallel to the sunken line so they can all hit at once. Hit your hotkeys (1t2t for stim, then 1a2a) and go for it. Once you engage, make sure to start targeting each sunken colony individually and focus fire on each one until they are all gone. If you have a large enough number of marines/medics, you won't even need micro because you can just crush the sunken line

Some situations:

Mutalisks pop out and head for your base: Do not run your forces back. You basically will want to base-trade with the Zerg, because if the mutalisks are out that early, it means the Zerg went 2-hatch muta, and only has enough larvae for six mutalisks. This means that if you build turrets in your main and re-rally all your barracks to defend your main, you can lift your natural and float it back to your main. The command center may actually die in mid-air, but I'm willing to bet it will get to safety before it explodes. Once you have three turrets and a handful of medic/marine, six mutalisks will be powerless to win the game. Meanwhile, your forces at the Zerg base should kill off all the drones, which will put the Zerg in an impossible situation to win.

Mutalisks pop out and you can't attack the sunkens: A little bit of patience here will get through this situation. Just wait for some reinforcements, then go for it. Normally, your attack should hit right before the mutas can stop you, but if you botch your timing, or get messed up by zerglings, then things can go awry. Be sure to scan the Zerg natural always before attacking it. He may have made like 3 more sunken colonies, and if there are that many plus mutalisks, then you can't break that. However, it doesn't mean the game is over. You'll actually be in a quite good position, provided that you don't freak out and try to attack too soon. Just start teching up and getting your factory, then starport, then science facility. If the Zerg took a third base somewhere, send a very small force to go kill it, like 3 marines, 1 medic, maybe 1 firebat. If the Zerg tries to defend it with the mutalisks, scan the sunken line again, and if the coast is clear, just break it.

Zerg went lurkers: This is a more complex scenario since you can't bust the Zerg natural without tanks/science vessels. You can, however, box the Zerg into a corner for a very long time, but you'll have to transition into a long-game strategy. Even still, if you go for tech/expansion/mech switch, you'll be in good shape in the late game since the Zerg will be hard-pressed to take a third and fourth base, depending on the map. If you scan their natural and see only one lurker, it's a trick. It's a bunch of stacked lurkers.

3-hatch mass speedlings: If you scout this, then you're almost guaranteed to win, since firebats are really strong against zerglings. Just make sure when you move out, you have 3 firebats with your force. The next step, however, is to make sure you don't get backstabbed, so you'll want to produce more firebats and place them on your ramp. Ideally, you would want to do 2 medics in front and 2 firebats in back, which actually is quite easy to do with this build since you have 4 barracks.




6fact

[image loading]

This is exactly what it sounds like: you build 6 factories, then go attack. I should just end on that note, but for shits and giggles, we'll dive into some more specific parameters involved in executing this build successfully.

The build:

  • 9/10 - Supply Depot
  • 14/18 - Command Center


Yes, I'm opening it with a 14cc. You can open with your standard build though:

  • 9/10 - Depot
  • 10/10 - Barracks + go scout
  • 15/10 - Supply Depot
  • 18 - Command Center + refinery


+ Show Spoiler [omg zerglings] +
Now, I'm making the assumption that the Zerg went 12 hatch. However, you'll still want to build a bunker after you take your expansion. You won't need more than 4 marines unless you're facing a 9pool opening. Against a 9pool, you'll need to take your natural a bit later, but again, against a low-economy Zerg, this is not a problem. A low-economy Zerg playing off 2 hatcheries cannot compete with you in terms of raw production power, so they will either be rushing for lair, or building a lot of speedlings, and some cases, both.

[image loading]
You'll sometimes need to play it safe if the Zerg is being particularly aggressive. This usually just applies to 9 pool + gas aggression with a lot of lings. Overpool is kind of uncommon in ZvT, but it does happen, but is not really "aggressive", and you can build the CC on the low ground. The same rule applies to 12 pool, but since it is a pool-first build, don't forget to get a bunker

However, let's talk about the zergling situation first in the early game. If there is a threat from zerglings, you may want to build your CC in your main, and lift it off towards your natural once you've piled up enough marines to move out. However, this changes almost nothing else about your build. You'll still take your natural, then get a bunker. You'll still get your refinery with your CC. And you'll go to the next step:


  • @100 gas - Factory
  • 23/26 - Supply Depot
  • @next 100 gas - 2nd Factory
  • Factory finishes - Machine shop + armory + academy
  • 2nd Factory finishes - Take the refinery at your natural


I recommend making a vulture from your second factory before adding a machine shop to it.

  • 40/44 - Supply Depot
  • Machine shop finishes - Research spider mines
  • Other machine shop finishes - Research goliath range


Note about engineering bay: Versus 2-hatch muta, you can build your engineering bay after your first factory, and then place the second one + armory. Also, versus 2-hatch muta, get your goliath range upgrade FIRST, then spider mines.

+ Show Spoiler [tech path] +

vs 3-Hatch Muta - spider mines > goliath range > siege mode
vs 3-Hatch Lurker - spider mines > goliath range > siege mode
vs 2-Hatch Lurker - spider mines > siege mode > goliath range
vs 2-Hatch Muta - goliath range > spider mines > vulture speed > siege mode

Vulture speed almost always will come last, but spider mines are essential for killing zerglings and lurkers. Versus 2 hatch lurker, a Zerg player might switch into a 2-hatch hydra all-in, so you'll need siege mode, but then also goliath range. You'll still need turrets to protect yourself from lurker drops.

Against mutalisks, you will definitely need goliaths and turrets, but also something to defend against zerglings, because a muta/ling timing attack is not uncommon. DO NOT engage the mutalisks with pure goliaths until you have at least 6 goliaths, otherwise they need to stay around your turrets, and they cannot become isolated, because you need to build up the number of goliaths to where the mutalisks become useless.


You should make vultures until the armory finishes, then switch to goliaths.

You'll be able to easily afford 4 factories around 6-7 minutes into the game. You can add the other two factories once you have the extra money and then you can cut SCV production so that one of the factories can continuously produce vultures. The other ones will produce almost exclusively goliaths. The two factories with machine shops will produce only tanks.

Timings:

- 100 food: This is generally too early to attack. If you have vulture speed, you can send vultures out onto the map to harass and scout stuff out. You'll quickly get a good idea of what the Zerg is building to counter-act your build. Be sure to also scan their lair to see if it's been morphed into a hive, and if it has morphed, you should tech to science vessels to kill defilers and guardians.

- 150 food: Your +1 attack and +1 armor should be finished, so this is a good time to attack unless your opponent has a massive amount of hydralisks roaming the map, which would be around 40 or more. Generally, 10-12 tanks should be able to clean them up if you have goliaths to buffer the damage. However, if there are too many hydras, just expand and go up to 200 food.

- 200 food: You should only go at 200 if you can't at 150. If that's the case, tech up to science vessels and add another armory. Then you can inch your army into position to take another base, because your main will mine out.


How this works: The more mech units you have, the more exponentially powerful your army becomes. Early on, you have to face a number of threats, but most of them can be dealt with using spider mines and goliaths. Goliaths are surprisingly good against lurkers once you have enough of them, so you can be safe getting goliath range first, even if the Zerg player opens with lurkers off 3 hatcheries. Against a 2-hatch lurker, goliaths can hold off a frontal attack if there are mines placed, but if a lot of lings come piling in, and the lurkers burrow in your natural, it can just turn into a nightmare, so I would recommend having siege tanks to hit the lurkers before they can burrow down, because you won't have a science facility yet for detection.

Generally, this will crush any low-economy Zerg play, including 2-hatch muta, 2-hatch lurker, and is also very strong against 3-hatch muta or lurker. The weakness comes from the Zerg player going 3-hatch hydra and taking a quick third expansion so they can produce a huge number of hydralisks.


Zerg counters:

Mass ling: A-move through it

Lurker/ling: A-move through it

Guardians: A-move through it

Muta/ling: A-move through it

Defiler/lurker: This can get annoying, because if lurkers are burrowed, none of your units can hit them. This is why it is important to scan the Zerg's main for hive to see if they are getting defilers so you can get science vessels to irradiate the defilers. You'll want to concentrate your irradiates on the defilers only, and let your tanks deal with the lurkers. If there is a lurker under swarm, just kill the defiler and wait for the dark swarm to dissipate so you can kill the lurker. If there are only a couple of lurkers, you can also run vultures into them and place mines around them, which will kill the lurkers.

Mass hydra: Against mass hydra, you'll need to be a bit more deliberate in your movements. If possible, have your army hug the walls and cliffs to prevent the hydras from attack from multiple directions. Occasionally scan ahead to see where the hydras are going. Try to keep reinforcing your army and placing mines ahead of your forces as you move along.

Backstab: Against a small backstab, you should be able to hold it off with very few units. If the Zerg commits a huge force to backstabbing, don't turn back to defend your base. Just re-rally all your factories so that the units don't spawn into the Zerg's attack. If it is a big hydra or ultra/ling attack, start putting tanks on your cliff, and do everything possible to block your ramp, placing mines at the bottom of the ramp, and at the top of it. Your main army should continue attacking until the Zerg's bases are gone.




Conclusion



I'm not a really big fan of "how-to-win" strategy guides, and this certainly isn't one. Both styles of play I mentioned can have a follow-up phase where you do something else. I just intended both of these to be a big a one-punch knock-out, however, there are mitigating factors which may stop you from just simply winning outright, so it's important that when you practice these kinds of builds, first you practice them to see how they pan out over the course of many games, then whatever feels right afterwards.

But like I said at the beginning, playing with a timing attack does not make you a "bad player". If you know what to do to follow-up in many different situations, then you're actually a quite decent player. But if your brain completely fails, just throw down three starports and start making wraiths.

Of course, I always encourage creativity, but also to be consistent. Consistency is key to winning games, so whatever you have to do to be consistent, do it. Some people write down build orders in a notebook, some people practice over and over on an empty map. You could even tattoo the build orders on your arm, but I don't recommend it.

Of course, don't forget to have fun!
+
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
MinscandBoo
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
252 Posts
April 05 2014 05:09 GMT
#2
dang nina, beasting out these guides. ones of these builds feel awfully familiar for some reason.... Thanks for doing this! Now if only I was able to play some Brood War >.>
Swords! Not words!
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
April 05 2014 05:39 GMT
#3
So we switching to terran, nina?
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 05 2014 09:09 GMT
#4
On April 05 2014 14:09 MinscandBoo wrote:
dang nina, beasting out these guides. ones of these builds feel awfully familiar for some reason.... Thanks for doing this! Now if only I was able to play some Brood War >.>


Why can't you play?

On April 05 2014 14:39 amazingxkcd wrote:
So we switching to terran, nina?


I figured someone would ask something of this sort, but no.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Reuental
Profile Joined July 2009
United States457 Posts
April 05 2014 09:18 GMT
#5
What would you define as a very quick 3rd nina? As I find the 6 fact build particularly brutal.
I'm a Crab made of men.
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany912 Posts
April 05 2014 09:49 GMT
#6
Nice work, but do you have a replay for your ayumi build vs 2 Hatch and 3 Hatch play? Because from the looks of it, it is just a standard 2 Rax Academy build where you add 2 Rax before an ebay. And because the additional Rax are so late, you probably don't get much use out of it before mutalisks are done. So the Zergs who die to this probably would have died to the standard 2 Rax timing anyway. And if they reacted correct and stalled for mutalisks they can just pick of reinforcements on the way to your base and you probably don't have turrets because your ebay is very late.
Also this build shouldn't be able to hit a pre-muta-timing versus 2 Hatch play at all except for maybe on python close position. For such a timing to work versus 2 Hatch play, you have to build your acad right after you started building your gas, so that you get medics as soon as possible.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 05 2014 11:32 GMT
#7
On April 05 2014 18:49 Cryoc wrote:
Nice work, but do you have a replay for your ayumi build vs 2 Hatch and 3 Hatch play? Because from the looks of it, it is just a standard 2 Rax Academy build where you add 2 Rax before an ebay. And because the additional Rax are so late, you probably don't get much use out of it before mutalisks are done. So the Zergs who die to this probably would have died to the standard 2 Rax timing anyway. And if they reacted correct and stalled for mutalisks they can just pick of reinforcements on the way to your base and you probably don't have turrets because your ebay is very late.
Also this build shouldn't be able to hit a pre-muta-timing versus 2 Hatch play at all except for maybe on python close position. For such a timing to work versus 2 Hatch play, you have to build your acad right after you started building your gas, so that you get medics as soon as possible.


What would you recommend for barracks timing?
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Cryoc
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany912 Posts
April 05 2014 14:03 GMT
#8
On April 05 2014 20:32 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2014 18:49 Cryoc wrote:
Nice work, but do you have a replay for your ayumi build vs 2 Hatch and 3 Hatch play? Because from the looks of it, it is just a standard 2 Rax Academy build where you add 2 Rax before an ebay. And because the additional Rax are so late, you probably don't get much use out of it before mutalisks are done. So the Zergs who die to this probably would have died to the standard 2 Rax timing anyway. And if they reacted correct and stalled for mutalisks they can just pick of reinforcements on the way to your base and you probably don't have turrets because your ebay is very late.
Also this build shouldn't be able to hit a pre-muta-timing versus 2 Hatch play at all except for maybe on python close position. For such a timing to work versus 2 Hatch play, you have to build your acad right after you started building your gas, so that you get medics as soon as possible.


What would you recommend for barracks timing?

All 4 Rax before gas. I did a liquipedia article on that a while ago. You can look at it here. Of course that is only feasible versus 3 Hatch play.
http://www.twitch.tv/cryoc
oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
April 05 2014 17:14 GMT
#9
ninazerg, I've seen like 2 pretty good guides you wrote so far on TL.. but I must ask, what is your rank?
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 05 2014 19:07 GMT
#10
On April 05 2014 23:03 Cryoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2014 20:32 ninazerg wrote:
On April 05 2014 18:49 Cryoc wrote:
Nice work, but do you have a replay for your ayumi build vs 2 Hatch and 3 Hatch play? Because from the looks of it, it is just a standard 2 Rax Academy build where you add 2 Rax before an ebay. And because the additional Rax are so late, you probably don't get much use out of it before mutalisks are done. So the Zergs who die to this probably would have died to the standard 2 Rax timing anyway. And if they reacted correct and stalled for mutalisks they can just pick of reinforcements on the way to your base and you probably don't have turrets because your ebay is very late.
Also this build shouldn't be able to hit a pre-muta-timing versus 2 Hatch play at all except for maybe on python close position. For such a timing to work versus 2 Hatch play, you have to build your acad right after you started building your gas, so that you get medics as soon as possible.


What would you recommend for barracks timing?

All 4 Rax before gas. I did a liquipedia article on that a while ago. You can look at it here. Of course that is only feasible versus 3 Hatch play.


Oh yeah... I've actually seen some people do this and I was wondering about this. The funny thing is, I was originally thinking of this build, but didn't see how it could hit before the 2-hatch timing. I've also seen something similar where they get the gas with one rax, get an academy, then throw down three barracks all at once.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
April 06 2014 01:21 GMT
#11
Nice write up but 8 Rax and 2 fact are definitely the best aggressive builds in tvz imo.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 06 2014 03:12 GMT
#12
On April 06 2014 10:21 puppykiller wrote:
Nice write up but 8 Rax and 2 fact are definitely the best aggressive builds in tvz imo.


The best is to go 8 rax, then follow it with 2 fact speed vultures, expo then go 6 fact.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
April 06 2014 03:46 GMT
#13
Haha true dat.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-06 05:06:24
April 06 2014 04:44 GMT
#14
I remember copying a different version of the 4 rax that hit with 20 rines and 4 medics about 4 years ago. I cant remember the name but there was a video guide. It`s designed to kill 3 hatch muta, and struggled vs 2 hatch.
edit: found it, stylish did an ayumi guide but with 3 rax at once. Is this build faster/more effective?
Yhamm is the god of predictions
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
April 06 2014 05:13 GMT
#15
On April 06 2014 13:44 Scarecrow wrote:
I remember copying a different version of the 4 rax that hit with 20 rines and 4 medics about 4 years ago. I cant remember the name but there was a video guide. It`s designed to kill 3 hatch muta, and struggled vs 2 hatch.
edit: found it, stylish did an ayumi guide but with 3 rax at once. Is this build faster/more effective?


Yeah it works. I feel like any sequence of build that lets you do the bust before the mutas pop accomplishes your goal.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
April 06 2014 06:29 GMT
#16
no relative timings?
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
April 06 2014 22:34 GMT
#17
Didn't want to make a new thread for this, but I was wondering if anyone could recommend some good cheese for T in TvP/TvZ/TvT?

If I recall LighT had a nice thread detailing certain builds, but I can't seem to find it.

Great thread btw, good information
Garaman
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States556 Posts
April 06 2014 22:39 GMT
#18
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/86770-stylishs-fpvods-06-10-update

This is possibly the greatest resource for terran players, which includes ayumi build with replays
oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
April 07 2014 17:31 GMT
#19
I guess you not answering explains everything. ^_^ ;D
#Swerve
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
Operations
Profile Joined February 2012
115 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-07 19:32:19
April 07 2014 19:28 GMT
#20
On April 06 2014 12:12 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2014 10:21 puppykiller wrote:
Nice write up but 8 Rax and 2 fact are definitely the best aggressive builds in tvz imo.


The best is to go 8 rax, then follow it with 2 fact speed vultures, expo then go 6 fact.


anyone who wants to get 90% tvz win ratio in iccup, just practice the 5rax +1 build.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Afreeca Starleague
10:00
Ro24 Group A
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Afreeca ASL 9559
StarCastTV_EN135
LiquipediaDiscussion
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #75
CranKy Ducklings115
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech118
MindelVK 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9342
Bisu 3674
Flash 3146
Horang2 2636
Hyuk 970
Jaedong 931
BeSt 511
Larva 351
Zeus 304
Stork 231
[ Show more ]
Pusan 226
Leta 100
Dewaltoss 78
Killer 71
NotJumperer 53
PianO 51
ToSsGirL 50
Nal_rA 34
Shinee 32
Backho 29
Bale 23
yabsab 23
Hm[arnc] 19
GoRush 16
soO 11
Movie 10
ForGG 9
Noble 7
Terrorterran 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe285
canceldota103
League of Legends
Reynor95
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1769
zeus468
edward70
Other Games
ceh9682
shoxiejesuss245
Happy238
Fuzer 207
crisheroes179
Livibee124
Sick117
Mew2King69
ViBE37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick622
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 170
lovetv 12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 40
• StrangeGG 27
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 41m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 41m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 41m
Afreeca Starleague
23h 41m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 23h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Platinum Heroes Events
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
6 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.