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A common question in Brood War strategy forums from new players is "How many workers do I make?" And almost always, the reply is the same: "If you don't know when to stop producing workers, you're not ready to stop making workers." However, this is not a completely accurate response. It is possible to be a brand new player who knows exactly how many drones to make for whatever plan he's trying to achieve in his game. Brood War is not just a game about intuition; it's also highly mathematical and strategic in nature. Skilled players (most often Korean) have very precise worker counts and more units than the other player because they've planned their economy a lot better than guessing when they have enough workers.
A well-planned SCBW game has, well, a plan! A plan might be "I want to make 4 lurkers and 18 zerglings in the quickest way possible and then break down the terran's natural base and win the game right there." Or it might be "I want to survive into the late game so that I have 5 bases with 8 hatcheries, producing 2 ultralisks, 1 defiler, 1 lurker, 1 pair of scourge, and the rest zerglings and overlords non-stop." Economy management is how you get to the end goal of your plan. And good economy management is getting there in the most efficient way possible.
I'll start by breaking down the first example plan so you can get an idea of what economy management is. The first thing you need to do is get the numbers. Building times, how often larva pop out, and how many minerals and gas are mined by a single drone are the main numbers you need to know for this. You can jump into a game and work them out yourself, or you can go onto the StarCraft wikia and get some of the numbers there.
+ Show Spoiler [Some Data] +All times use in-game seconds. There are 0.65 game seconds in 1 real life second. Build times: Spawning Pool = 80 seconds Drone = 20 seconds Overlord = 40 seconds Lair = 100 seconds Hatchery = 120 seconds Larva Spawn Time = 20 seconds From http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78828 (my inspiration for this thread in some ways) How many drones do I need to maintain constant production of a ..... from 1 hatchery? Drone: 3 drones mining minerals Zergling: 3 drones mining minerals (duh, it costs 50 minerals just like the drone) Overlord: this unit is unique since you don't constantly produce it....you just need to start a new one when the old one pops out. 2 drones per overlord is good, if later in the game you need to make 2 overlords every round, then 4 drones, no more will be needed, ever. Hydralisk: 6 drones on minerals + 1 drone on gas ( remember, we are talking about 1 hathcery) Mutalisk: 4 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas. It should be noted that this combo gives you the same amount of minerals as gas, 100/100 for muta, and the same combo is used for lurker and ultralisk. Note, in zvz for muta/ling combo, it's 6 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas per hatchery, mainly because mutas are limited by gas, not larva, so you will have excess larva and no gas for the zergling. Scourge: 1 drone on mineral + 3 drones on gas. This unit is only constantly produced in the ling/scourge strategy in zvz. And for that 3 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas should maintain constant production of ling/scourge from 1 hatchery. Queen: Omitted from experiment due to lack of use. Lurker: 4 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas. This includes the hydralisk cost. Defiler: 3 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas, you get a little excess minerals, but 2 drones on minerals is not enough. Ultralisk: 4 drones on minerals + 3 drones on gas.
The example we'll be breaking down is Jaedong vs Dolphin. The replay is available here.
In this replay, Jaedong does a fairly standard 3 hatch muta build. What we'll be investigating is when and why he builds certain buildings to reach his checkpoints along the way, and we'll also see just how far along his economy management goes. Most people (that I know of) only follow a build order for the first ten minutes or so of a game. After that, they start to make it up as they go. While this isn't inherently terrible, you can be much more effective if you have precise knowledge of just how many workers you need to produce X amount of units from Y hatcheries, and so on. The game is a ZvT, and we'll be looking at the Zerg side of things, but the same concept applies to the other races.
Let's take a look at his build order. He goes for a standard 12 hatch opening, with the pool at 12 as well.
12 hatchery
12 pool
14 second hatchery
12 gas
16 overlord
17 zerglings
18 drone
@100 gas lair
22 second gas
One more pair of lings
24 Ling speed
25 overlord
4 more pairs of lings when the overlord finishes
@31 when lair finishes, he makes his spire.
He then drones until 34, and makes 3 overlords. At this stage he has 22 drones on minerals, and 6 on gas.
He makes one more drone with his remaining 1 supply, bringing him up to 35 with 3 overlords on the way.
Marines push out so he makes two sunken colonies at his natural, bringing him down to 22 mineral mining drones and 5 on gas, with 9 mutalisks on the way. He uses one of his gas mining drones to make one of the sunken colonies.
He then makes a hydralisk den at his main. Down to 21 on minerals, 5 on gas. He makes one more drone and two more mutalisk, back up to 22 on minerals and 6 on gas. He then makes an overlord and 2 pairs of lings.
He researches lurker aspect as soon as he has the gas for it. Then he makes two hydralisks and a queens nest, and 2 drones. 24 on minerals, 5 on gas. But he takes his 3rd so 22 on minerals.
Then 4 pairs of zerglings, and 2 more drones.
2 more hydralisk, 2 more pairs of zerglings
Hive the moment he has minerals for it. Lurker aspect finishes and he immediately morphs two lurkers, which is all he has gas for, with the third lurker morphing once he has gas.
Then 4 pairs of zerglings, and 2 more drones. He continues morphing lurkers as he gets gas
He gets two more hydras, his evo chamber and another hatchery in his main. At his third he starts making drones, while at his main he makes one more drone and an overlord and another hydralisk. He makes 3 more drones at his main and maynards over to his third. He starts his defiler mound when hive finishes and he has resources.
At this stage things start to get a bit messy, but he keeps his drone count at 42/43 for several minutes at this stage, replacing any he loses. This means he has 8 on gas and 33/34 on minerals.
Once he gets his fourth base up, he makes 8 more drones, bringing him up to 50/51. 3 on gas, so 38/39 on minerals.
The game ends shortly after this, as Jaedong loses his main.
And now we analyze just what happened.
For the first stage of the game, he's working hard on getting his total drone count to 23, give or take a couple drones depending on what buildings he places. For now we'll ignore the initial mutalisk part, other than a small aside:
The first 11 mutalisks and the build up to them are perfectly timed to be able to get the exact amount of mutas you want and not have more nor less drones than you need, with any excess larva being devoted to zerglings.
Carrying on, what can you produce with 23 drones? You have 6 drones on gas, and around 17 on minerals (again, that number varied slightly). You can produce a maximum of 2 lurkers at a time, and are limited by gas. That was what Jaedong was doing, and we have remaining 9 drones on minerals. We need to produce an overlord every round, which requires 2 drones mining minerals, so we have 7 drones left on minerals. With that, we can produce 2 sets of zerglings at a time and have an excess of minerals, which we need anyway for placing other buildings and hatcheries. Jaedong has the precise amount of drones he needs, no more, no less.
Later on he goes up to 38 drones, varying slightly depending on the situation. Now, he took one of his natural gas drones off to make a sunken. He may have made a mistake. I could be reading this wrong. However, that's 8 on gas, with 29 left mining minerals. And he's producing (per round, roughly): one defiler, one lurker, and sometimes a pair of scourge, with some upgrades consuming his excess gas. That leaves us with all the gas used up precisely, and 22 mineral mining drones. Subtract 4 for 2 overlords per round, and we have 18. With this, he's producing 5 pairs of zerglings, leaving 3 extra drones on minerals which earn minerals for extra hatcheries and nydus canals and such. Again, precise drone amounts, no more, no less.
And when he gets his next base, he increases his defiler production if I see correctly. Now, he's not producing exactly those units every round, but it's pretty close to it. He's good enough to know when he can vary it, but not good enough to spend his minerals and gas perfectly, so he does have a few hundred excess minerals near to the end. His gas usage is pretty accurate though. He adds on his natural gas drone at around 110 supply. Again, he may have made a mistake and was wondering the whole game why he didn't have enough gas, it is possible.
Why is this so useful?
Maximization. If you only produce the drones you need and the hatcheries you need to achieve your production goals, not only will you not float resources (looks so pro!) but you will be able to produce everything you need without running out of resources. Too often when I play without a definite build, I'll either never have enough resources, or I'll start floating resources massively. Not only that, when I float resources too high I have not maximized the size of my army somewhere down the line. That means a potential window of oppurtunity for my opponents.
This helps you when you're doing a particular build, because you'll be able to work out exactly how many drones you need to do whatever you want, and you'll also have a nice framework to know what units you can afford to purchase. This makes macro easier because you don't have to think too hard about what to produce, you just produce whatever you've already planned for. This also means you don't have too many lings and too much gas and not enough lurkers, because you're always producing roughly what you planned for.
This is also extremely useful for when you create a build, so that you can maximize the efficiency of the build. For example, here's a cheese/allin build I use often in ZvT which was created from scratch using my knowledge of building times and resource requirements.
Birdie's 2 hatch lurker rush
12 hatch and scout
11 gas
10 pool
drone up to 13
Move three drones onto gas the moment it completes.
@Spawning pool completion - Lair
Produce 2-4 lings (usually I produce 4).
Use one ling to sit outside the opponent's base in case of any early pushes, and the rest to chase away the scout. If possible, you want the scout out of your main and then keep your lings on the ramp so that it can't get back up.
16 - Overlord
@Lair 60% completion - Hydralisk Den
3 more drones
@Den and lair completion - Lurker Aspect
At this stage you don't need to produce any more drones. Make 4 hydralisks, and one more overlord, and use the rest of the larva and minerals on Zerglings. Make sure you stop production a few seconds before the lurker aspect completes so that you have enough minerals for the 4 lurkers to morph straight away. Continue ling production and overlord production.
@your next 100 gas, start ling speed.
Soon after, the lurkers complete and you attack his base with the lings in front and lurkers behind. Burrow the lurkers and watch the chaos ensue.
I hope this article was useful to you. If you think anything in it is incorrect, feel free to let me know. If it helped you at all or you want any advice, feel free also to let me know  I realize that nothing here is particularly new, but an article like this would have been useful to me when I was learning to play.
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I think if you're planning any kind of early game attack, most players will tell you "at one point you want to be cutting scvs/probes/drones" and will give you a specific timing for when you want to be cutting. For example, 2fac attacks sometimes require you to cut scvs at around the 20 or 22/26 supply count in order to have the necessary minerals for a tank or crucial upgrade. The same can be said for some midgame attacks that require you to have some extra minerals and supply for vultures or an additional factory.
Otherwise, you should still follow the general advice: keep making workers. Honestly, it's a lot easier to fix overproducing workers than it is to fix underproducing them, in my experience.
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On January 07 2013 13:09 Zergneedsfood wrote:
I think if you're planning any kind of early game attack, most players will tell you "at one point you want to be cutting scvs/probes/drones" and will give you a specific timing for when you want to be cutting. For example, 2fac attacks sometimes require you to cut scvs at around the 20 or 22/26 supply count in order to have the necessary minerals for a tank or crucial upgrade. The same can be said for some midgame attacks that require you to have some extra minerals and supply for vultures or an additional factory.
Otherwise, you should still follow the general advice: keep making workers. Honestly, it's a lot easier to fix overproducing workers than it is to fix underproducing them, in my experience.
This is generally true, though I have a devil of a time with overproducing in lategame situations. For so long I worked on always making workers that 0p9p8p became decently habitual, so now I keep doing it mindlessly sometimes in the lategame, only to find myself with a 200/200 army of maybe three control groups.
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jaedongs 3rd hatch was on 13 supply.
and he was on 2 drones in gas in his natural for more than 10 minutes, starting from the point where he makes his 2 sunkens (which are technically too late).
because of only having 5 drones in gas, every analysis u made after mutas is technically irrelevant.
actually i was irritated by the build (which also doesnt has the 4th hatch timing), so i had to check the replay to find out they played on Circuit Breaker and Dolphin played 14 cc.
iirc, the answer to the "how many workers should i make?" question was: "if u are asking this, it's better to not stop making workers."
the reason (imo) behind that answer is that every game technically has a different max amount of worker, based on your build, his build, the map and based on stuff already happened ingame. So it isnt possible to answer such kind of question with a definite answer. good people should know that each game is different, so they wouldnt ask this question (because they wouldnt get a good answer out of it).
if a "not good person" is asking this, then it most likely is about lategame, because otherwise he would have used build orders or the "amount of drones per unit" guide (there aren't really guide available for lategame).
if a "not good person" gets into lategame, he is already wondering what he should be doing (because of overmins), otherwise he wouldnt ask such question. Combined with the fact that lategame is extremly micro/multitask intensive, that answer is supposed to make it easier macro wise.
i dont really get what your goal is with this post... u want to tell us how economy management works? how to play with the fewest amount of drones possible? how jaedong does something for 10 minutes without noticing that he only had 5 drones in gas for a while?
"Why is this so useful?
Maximization. If you only produce the drones you need and the hatcheries you need to achieve your production goals, not only will you not float resources (looks so pro!) but you will be able to produce everything you need without running out of resources."
if u only have the same amount of income (drones) as u are able to spend (hatches), u will never get overmins by massing only army, which technically means u are all in. (well "production goals" can still be used for an amount of income bigger than u currently can use, but your whole post about having enough drones to just make units sounds all in)
the problem with this kind of approach in zerg economy is that every larva, zerg has to decide to go drones or units.
for early - midgame timing attacks / all ins, this "how many drones per unit i want to make" thingy posted is really good, because in timing attacks / all ins, time is against u and u also need to make sure your attack has a big impact by having the most amount of units possible at the attack timing.
for "defensive", economic playing in direction to lategame, your not playing against the time and you are more or less free to do what u want, given that u somehow have enough drones to get overmins with your current production of drones/units.
now depending on what u want, u have to ask yourself 2 questions:
1. "what has a better impact in the game right now, drones or units?"
2. "Do i have to make units so i dont die? Do i have time to make drones?"
the question seems similar, but there is a small difference in them.
the 1. question is about the theoretically "best" way to play. While the 2. question is more about my ingame abilities, my style of play (and about a way to solve question 1.)
let's look at 2 hatch muta vs terran 1 rax cc into fast +1 as an example.
normally, u can play 2 hatch muta vs bio in 2 ways, either agressively or defensively, and that means either a high amount of zerglings or a low amount of zerglings.
u could play with just enough drones with 2 hatch muta production (where u can use this "number of drones per production of unit" guide), or u play 2 hatch muta with as many drones as possible, given the situation, without dieing.
given the situation of a "normal" game, where i cant scout terrans main, im not sure what exactly his build is.
(after 1 rax cc) he could be going fast aca, and push with an early medic and firebat. he could be going 2 rax aca, and push slightly before mutas with a bigger force, or he could be going fast +1 where he has rather few amount of units until mutas are out.
yes i can technically scout it when i constantly check marine count, but if he hides behind depot/bunker at natural + ovi at natural cant see that much, its hard to guess it 100% correctly, so u have to pick a way of defending possible agression, which is either by a certain number of speedlings u feel most comfortable, or a certain number of sunkens.
i dont think anybody knows what the theoretically best way is, as it depends too hard on muta micro + multitask ability.
the solution to this is your "style of play", where u choose the variation which is most comfortable for u.
i mostly play the defensive version, while eonzerg mostly plays the agressive version, both variations work.
yes some decisions are restricted by the nature of zvt, but some decisions are based on "style of play".
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On January 07 2013 18:14 Bakuryu wrote:
jaedongs 3rd hatch was on 13 supply.
and he was on 2 drones in gas in his natural for more than 10 minutes, starting from the point where he makes his 2 sunkens (which are technically too late).
because of only having 5 drones in gas, every analysis u made after mutas is technically irrelevant.
actually i was irritated by the build (which also doesnt has the 4th hatch timing), so i had to check the replay to find out they played on Circuit Breaker and Dolphin played 14 cc.
Bah, I didn't even notice that. >.> I'll fix the article.
EDIT His third hatch was definitely 14 supply.
iirc, the answer to the "how many workers should i make?" question was: "if u are asking this, it's better to not stop making workers."
the reason (imo) behind that answer is that every game technically has a different max amount of worker, based on your build, his build, the map and based on stuff already happened ingame. So it isnt possible to answer such kind of question with a definite answer. good people should know that each game is different, so they wouldnt ask this question (because they wouldnt get a good answer out of it).
if a "not good person" is asking this, then it most likely is about lategame, because otherwise he would have used build orders or the "amount of drones per unit" guide (there aren't really guide available for lategame).
if a "not good person" gets into lategame, he is already wondering what he should be doing (because of overmins), otherwise he wouldnt ask such question. Combined with the fact that lategame is extremly micro/multitask intensive, that answer is supposed to make it easier macro wise.
The problem is that new players get it drilled into them that they need to make as many workers as possible, but they keep doing it and it causes them harm later on when they can cope with the micro and multitask but they're still making too many workers. It holds people back. Better to say "It depends on your build and the situation; tell us what builds you're usually doing and we'll tell you how many workers you need at each stage."
i dont really get what your goal is with this post... u want to tell us how economy management works? how to play with the fewest amount of drones possible? how jaedong does something for 10 minutes without noticing that he only had 5 drones in gas for a while?
How to play with the fewest amount of drones necessary. Not the fewest possible, but the fewest necessary to achieve whatever you're going for at each stage of the game.
"Why is this so useful?
Maximization. If you only produce the drones you need and the hatcheries you need to achieve your production goals, not only will you not float resources (looks so pro!) but you will be able to produce everything you need without running out of resources."
if u only have the same amount of income (drones) as u are able to spend (hatches), u will never get overmins by massing only army, which technically means u are all in. (well "production goals" can still be used for an amount of income bigger than u currently can use, but your whole post about having enough drones to just make units sounds all in)
It's about having enough resources for particular stages in the game to make enough army without having to worry about too many or too few resources. Over different stages of the game, Jaedong suddenly starts producing drones because he's in a military position to be able to increase his economy to the next stage. It's not allin, it's just stage-based play.
the problem with this kind of approach in zerg economy is that every larva, zerg has to decide to go drones or units.
for early - midgame timing attacks / all ins, this "how many drones per unit i want to make" thingy posted is really good, because in timing attacks / all ins, time is against u and u also need to make sure your attack has a big impact by having the most amount of units possible at the attack timing.
for "defensive", economic playing in direction to lategame, your not playing against the time and you are more or less free to do what u want, given that u somehow have enough drones to get overmins with your current production of drones/units.
now depending on what u want, u have to ask yourself 2 questions:
1. "what has a better impact in the game right now, drones or units?"
2. "Do i have to make units so i dont die? Do i have time to make drones?"
the question seems similar, but there is a small difference in them.
the 1. question is about the theoretically "best" way to play. While the 2. question is more about my ingame abilities, my style of play (and about a way to solve question 1.)
let's look at 2 hatch muta vs terran 1 rax cc into fast +1 as an example.
normally, u can play 2 hatch muta vs bio in 2 ways, either agressively or defensively, and that means either a high amount of zerglings or a low amount of zerglings.
u could play with just enough drones with 2 hatch muta production (where u can use this "number of drones per production of unit" guide), or u play 2 hatch muta with as many drones as possible, given the situation, without dieing.
given the situation of a "normal" game, where i cant scout terrans main, im not sure what exactly his build is.
(after 1 rax cc) he could be going fast aca, and push with an early medic and firebat. he could be going 2 rax aca, and push slightly before mutas with a bigger force, or he could be going fast +1 where he has rather few amount of units until mutas are out.
yes i can technically scout it when i constantly check marine count, but if he hides behind depot/bunker at natural + ovi at natural cant see that much, its hard to guess it 100% correctly, so u have to pick a way of defending possible agression, which is either by a certain number of speedlings u feel most comfortable, or a certain number of sunkens.
i dont think anybody knows what the theoretically best way is, as it depends too hard on muta micro + multitask ability.
the solution to this is your "style of play", where u choose the variation which is most comfortable for u.
i mostly play the defensive version, while eonzerg mostly plays the agressive version, both variations work.
yes some decisions are restricted by the nature of zvt, but some decisions are based on "style of play".
In the situation where you are playing defensively with your mutas and sunkens and so on while massing your economy, you're still eventually going to get to a stage where you have the economy to do your aggressive push. You can't win by turtling all day (usually xD), and you presumably have a goal you're trying to reach. Once you reach that goal you start the next part of your plan. In an allin, the goal is to get X units and then attack and win. In the 2hatch muta example, you're using your mutas to defend while you get enough economy to [...] which could be "make nonstop ultralisks from 4 hatcheries plus lings for whatever resources I have left" or "make lurker ling defiler from 6 hatcheries" or whatever. But if you make too many drones for "make lurker ling defiler from 6 hatcheries" then you'll have a smaller army than what you could have had if you had been more precise with your economy. You could have stopped drone production earlier, started fullscale army production, and hit earlier and with more units.
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Pretty interesting guide, even though I don't play Zerg so the particulars don't really apply -- but the approach as a whole might be somewhat relevant regardless of race.
Always nice to have a macro-management guide that doesn't start and end with "macro better".
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
This seems way too complicated for newbs. Compare your gigantic post to the one line advice of "keep making workers". Way easier to follow the one line of advice and honestly it will get them at least to C- or so, at which point they can come back to TL and figure out the complicated shit. Maybe it's more important for zerg since your worker management is different, but for protoss I still follow the "keep making workers" advice even at C+/B- level.
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actually i meant the 1st gas at 13... my bad
and because u fixed some parts of it, but not all, (drone counts) it looks strange now.
The problem is that new players get it drilled into them that they need to make as many workers as possible, but they keep doing it and it causes them harm later on when they can cope with the micro and multitask but they're still making too many workers. It holds people back. Better to say "It depends on your build and the situation; tell us what builds you're usually doing and we'll tell you how many workers you need at each stage."
people always take things they got told for granted, which is a general problem.
i have no idea about tvp, but a player who consistantly manages to get to lategame without having big disadvantages against various enemy builds is atleast B-/B lvl.
Ive seen many C-/C or lower people play either homebreed builds, or they play a macro oriented build, ok macro until the first time they attack/harass, then they focus on the attack big time and have 1k+ overmins, while mostly losing all units. i think telling people to make sure to constantly make worker is a big stepping stone for repeatable macro games.
u first have to be able to make workers constantly, before u can start stopping them at a certain point.
still, i think there is no perfect answer to "how many worker should i have", even if i know both builds and all that stuff.
probably somewhere around 70-80.
the way this thread sounds, is that jaedong somehow always got the right number of drones and that making more drones than necessary is a bad thing.
It's about having enough resources for particular stages in the game to make enough army without having to worry about too many or too few resources.
But if you make too many drones for "make lurker ling defiler from 6 hatcheries" then you'll have a smaller army than what you could have had if you had been more precise with your economy. You could have stopped drone production earlier, started fullscale army production, and hit earlier and with more units.
i dont get how u can have too many ressources, u can always make an extra hatch for extra lings.
...or i can attack with 8-10 fewer lings but have enough eco to expand again while attacking, so i dont have to commit.
if i have just enough drones (and theoretically no overmins) to support all my hatches, i will be stuck on the same amount of hatches until i start making drones again. if the enemy manages to surpass my eco while im still at massing units while having no overmins, im essentially all-in unless i can manage to use my army in a way to buy time to get enough economy to even it out (contain, harass, storm/lurker/mnm drops).
but other than that, im technically all-in, even if i have 8 hatches (on 4 base) making hydras vs 2 base protoss.
that problem changes a little near 200/200 supply, but as i said earlier, a big amount of people have already big problems in midgame.
regardless of race, everytime u stop making workers, u have to make it count, like inflicting similar amounts of damage, either by attacking or forcing him into defence.
many people just dont have the experience and general game knowledge to pull it off efficiently before the timebomb goes off... and then they are in an eco disadvantage.
hm... just to point out 2 things.
1. how do u know, that jaedong does the things he does because of the way he wants to (his style), or because he has to (nature of zvt, in order to survive/win games generally).
was making that group of lings before mutas a stylistic choice? or did he need to do it in order to not die?
2. generally and also in jaedongs game (unless im completely wrong), he always has more than necessary drones, otherwise he wouldn't be able to to place a hatch while making units.
another problem of this "enough drones to support X stuff", is that it is neglecting things that led up to it.
if i have drones enough for 3 hatches producing, and i want a 4th hatch, the most common thing is to make a 4 hatch eco while u still have 3 hatches, in order to get enough overmins fast enough to really use it.
But when i already have a 4 hatch eco, but the 4th hatch is still building, what do i do with my overmins after i macroed out of my 3 hatches?
yes there is technically a way of adding just enough drones that when the 4th hatch finishes (u will have slightly higher income than u need for 3 hatch), u have enough overmins to use the 4th hatch until u have made enough drones to support it. but still that would be like adding 3 drones in advance so u can get an extra hatch ready in like 3 minutes if u never change the stuff your building.
another thing that isnt integrated in that "enough drones to support x stuff" is the money needed for upgrades.
i hope u understand what im talking about...^^
btw, many people will come here, see the name jaedong, check jaedong's build, blindly copy the build (and won't notice the things jaedong did as a reaction), read u talking about how everything works out perfectly because of how he stops making workers, people will most likely randomly stop making workers and end up "all inning" because of that...
sry for the mess i posted  somehow needed to write the things i wanted to post
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How do hydras necessitate 6 on minerals if lurkers(with hydra cost) are 4 on minerals...and why are ultras and mutas both 4 on minerals and 3 on gas when one costs twice as much as the other? This data seems inaccurate
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On January 08 2013 01:27 traceurling wrote:
How do hydras necessitate 6 on minerals if lurkers(with hydra cost) are 4 on minerals...and why are ultras and mutas both 4 on minerals and 3 on gas when one costs twice as much as the other? This data seems inaccurate
Ultras and mutas need the same workers because they need the same mineral/gas ratio (even through you get twice as much mutas then ultras).
For Hydras you need more drones on minerals than for Lurkers because they are mineral intesive, while Lurkers need a lot of gas to morph.
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United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
On January 08 2013 01:27 traceurling wrote:
How do hydras necessitate 6 on minerals if lurkers(with hydra cost) are 4 on minerals...and why are ultras and mutas both 4 on minerals and 3 on gas when one costs twice as much as the other? This data seems inaccurate
Time it takes to build is different. The info is relevant if you want to build 1 by 1, not in a cyclical manner. Ultras take longer to morph than mutas.
Top credits for the effort on this guide, I'm sure it helped out more people than the thread has replies. It's just not something really applicable to new players who get thrown off by something like a drop. I wouldn't worry about worker management until you are at least C territory. All the way up to C you can win by just massing hard and attacking at certain timings. As long as you are able to use your army efficiently you can win your opponent simply by overwhelming him, granted you have the apm to block harassment.
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Well the thing is larva spawns at a constant rate so every 13 seconds or however long it takes for larva to spawn you'll build that unit, build times don't affect it
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2. generally and also in jaedongs game (unless im completely wrong), he always has more than necessary drones, otherwise he wouldn't be able to to place a hatch while making units.
another problem of this "enough drones to support X stuff", is that it is neglecting things that led up to it.
if i have drones enough for 3 hatches producing, and i want a 4th hatch, the most common thing is to make a 4 hatch eco while u still have 3 hatches, in order to get enough overmins fast enough to really use it.
But when i already have a 4 hatch eco, but the 4th hatch is still building, what do i do with my overmins after i macroed out of my 3 hatches?
This is a good point, but the guide still applies for that. I'm not saying you should reach a certain point and stop doing any sort of economy improvement at all, but rather that you need a certain amount of workers to achieve certain goals. Jaedong always had a few extra drones so that he had enough for his upgrades and expansions. But when he reached certain goals in economy, he stopped producing extra drones so that he could maximize his army at that stage, and use the army to secure his next base. The extra drones gave him enough minerals for the next base, then once that was up he started making drones again to reach the next stage in his economic plan. And the plan can change on the fly.
I'm probably going to rewrite some of it to explain the idea of stage-based gameplay a lot better, so that people have a direct path to apply the theories in the article to their gameplay.
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EPT
