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Scout rush vs Corsair rush against Z - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-03-09 21:34:21
March 09 2005 21:33 GMT
#41
and mora mentioned the zerg having to build a second hydra to defend against scouts?

another hydra vs an opening that doesnt do any damage when a second hydra is made
hmm.. who's ahead?

we can agree that a star opening cant do any damage to a prepared zerg (inside the zerg base).. but scout has no applications after the opening... Well it does, but the corsair does it better -_-


Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
March 09 2005 21:35 GMT
#42
personally i think 1gate star is a bad opening all around.. i just cant stand being so passive
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
March 09 2005 21:39 GMT
#43
Yep I'll agree with that. From my Zerg perspective Sair Toss is the easiest opening to walk all over.
Moderator
IcarusFalls
Profile Joined October 2003
Canada94 Posts
March 09 2005 23:45 GMT
#44
yup my zerg perspective too.. i like NEVER lose when they open with that.. and VERY rarely has a protoss been able to get past the 15 min mark against me... but then again sair to reaver or sair to zeal rush can really catch a zerg off guard... that's really all this strat is for.. catching the zerg off guard
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
March 10 2005 02:32 GMT
#45
ok guys well lets assume the protoss player is actually good : P im still more interested in weather a scout is stronger on maps where the zerg has no expansion that has a gas natural... what do you guys think of MAPS WITH NO GAS NATURAL and using scouts.
Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
March 10 2005 03:02 GMT
#46
thats pretty irrelevant

for the toss its only a 25 gas difference (the goal of a 1gate star is a secure expansion anyway)

for zerg the proper counter isnt exactly gas-heavy
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Naib
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Hungary4843 Posts
March 10 2005 03:23 GMT
#47
I like the way of Nal_rA using scouts...they are sooo cool Only good for surprise tactic, ofcorz
Complete the cycle!
uhjoo
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)1740 Posts
March 10 2005 03:31 GMT
#48
On March 10 2005 11:32 MyLostTemple wrote:
ok guys well lets assume the protoss player is actually good : P im still more interested in weather a scout is stronger on maps where the zerg has no expansion that has a gas natural... what do you guys think of MAPS WITH NO GAS NATURAL and using scouts.


it's probably less effective, b/c most zergs with no gas nats go ling lurk, or even 3/4 hatch hydra or ling hydra so even if you "surprise" them with scouts, they'll probably already have a den and some hydra.
i want bubbles the warrior monkey back
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
March 10 2005 16:04 GMT
#49
On March 10 2005 05:26 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2005 23:40 Teroru wrote:
On March 09 2005 20:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
as a zerg player who knows 1gate star is coming (overlord sacrifice? and if they're retarded they dont even make a goon... come on)

i think making only 1 hydra is retarded, and making spores is even worse


How exactly do u counter sairs and/or scout without making a hydra or a spore?

Most zerg players make drones when they see a stargate opening. So either they make 1-4 hydra or a spore at their choke.

1 hatch scourge? xDDDD


only one hydra

this means i think that going 2hatch spire when i know they're going 1gate star is retarded

reading comprehension is strong


If you have an expansion and a main base and you know that scouts move faster than upupgraded hydras, than u need 2 hydras minimum per base. that's 4 hydralisks. And that's just to protect your mineral line. If you have a single overlord that is outside your mineral range, the scout will kill the overlord before dieing. Even vs 2 hydralisks.

A corsair on the other hand cannot kill even a single overlord if even a single hydra is attacking it.

And if im going scout, its usually with the intention of urging you to go hydra. It is much easier to adapt to a zergs play when you are forcing them into a situation. Sair does not force anything. Scouts do.

But on the whole, i am not a big fan 1stargate opening. However, i do feel that 9 times out of 10, if you ARE going to make a starport as fast tech, that a scout is better. Map and positions and the zerg opening build are also obviously important.

Thansk to Chill for coming to save me. Chill and Steve, you are both some of my greatest bnet friends, so pls do not quabble.
Happiness only real when shared.
Famouzze
Profile Joined June 2004
971 Posts
March 10 2005 18:11 GMT
#50
briefly, scout is better if either he's unaware of the stargate or the stargate comes really fast, which forces him to go spore rather than hydra. so if he went spore and you went scout you can own his drones, works really well. sair is better if he has hydra or muta fast enough rather than spore, since obviously spore > sair.
Calixtus
Profile Joined January 2019
Singapore4 Posts
January 16 2019 16:01 GMT
#51
If I buy over Blizzard, I will implement several changes. First, Infested Terran Splash Damage Range is increased to that of Reaver's Scarab. Second, Sunken Colonies be returned to 400 HP and 1 Armour. Third, Ultralisks gain base 3 Armour. I have my reasons for this, if anyone wishes to know, just reply here.

Infested Terrans also do full damage while under the Dark Swarm, instead of just Splash Damage.

One more thing: Zealots be returned to 80 HP and 80 Shields. And the Scourge should be slightly faster in speed, while the Sunken Colony's attack should be unaffected by Dark Swarm.

Perhaps have the Attack Upgrade of the Ultralisks be +4? Also, when a Scourge hits, the Unit automatically dies, instead of having a delay in the death animation. The Devourers have an Attack Range of 7, and the Scout has a Ground Attack value of 10, while gaining Detector for a Range of 6, after Researching Apial Sensors, at a cost of 200 Minerals and 200 Vespene Gas. The Scout's Sight Range is increased from 10 to 12 too with the Upgrade. Finally, the Overlord's Evolution, Antennae, costs 100 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas.

How about Spawn Broodlings costing 125 Energy? And of course lifting the object limiter for the Valkyrie.

User was temp banned for this post.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 16:18:05
January 16 2019 16:17 GMT
#52
So you bumped an almost 15 year old thread to tell us your E level wizened and drastic changes to this game that are never going to happen.

JFL.

At least the thread was a fun read back in time.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
January 16 2019 17:07 GMT
#53
Hahahaha what a bump!
aokces
Profile Joined October 2006
United States309 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 17:33:18
January 16 2019 17:21 GMT
#54
With the power of MPQ editing you can make all (most) of those changes come true!
Overall the Scout is just underused because it's slow and expensive, and with PvZ you need a "scout" ASAP since zerglings are denying all of your scouting probes.

Since we're talking about scout vs corsairs, here's my buff that will never see the light of day:

I would make it a true "scout" by making it only cost 1 supply, cost 75/100. Half stats and build time.
Ground attack halved (4 +1) changed to concussive. Air attack reduced (6x2 +2).
Starts with speed and give it an upgrade that gives its ground attacks splash damage.

But I also feel bad for zerg so give hydras +1 air range with the range upgrade (yes the hydra can actually have separate ground/air attacks like the goliath). While I'm fantasizing zerg buffs I'd also like 125 energy broodlings to be cloaked, have 5 armor, and the number created is double the supply of the unit killed. Which wouldn't really change anything but would be cooler.
y2k
Profile Joined January 2019
31 Posts
January 16 2019 17:30 GMT
#55
I can get behind your change aokces, although as you said it's never going to see the light of the day and I do think that is fair, because cmon BW is just awesome as is <3 Yeah sure maybe some races have advantages over others in general but that can all be balanced with different means i.e. maps. As for the thread bump... Let's not talk about that, but you really can see what race he is playing :D
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 17:36:08
January 16 2019 17:35 GMT
#56
I thought scouts should have came with speed for quite some time. Jaeyun mentioned that the speed upgrade should have came via the cybernetics core and that makes more sense. Imagine being able to one shot drones with a 5 +1 scout timing that doesn't take ages to build because of the fleet beacon/speed upgrade and time and cost? I do a scout opening after gateway expand vs zerg but it comes a bit too slow. 6 of them with speed and +1 attack usually comes right before 9 minutes.
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
January 16 2019 18:01 GMT
#57


famous game of a scout opening for all the immediate naysayers; no doubt its less efficient than a sair opening, but one should never dismiss the power of novelty.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
kaspa84
Profile Joined July 2016
Brazil169 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-16 18:22:08
January 16 2019 18:20 GMT
#58
Interesting people commenting sair vs scout pre Bisu revolution...

But it seems to me that scout is good if Z skips Hydras, like some Jangbi vs Crazy-Hydra on the last proleague (hybrid one).

Edit: Agree with above about speed upgrade.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
January 21 2019 23:05 GMT
#59
How about giving it some way to have or use detection? Adding a stargate detector in SC2 was great cause you were no longer forced down a tech path just for seeing invisible units. I think this change would have very interesting results.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28659 Posts
January 22 2019 17:09 GMT
#60
On January 17 2019 02:35 EndingLife wrote:
I thought scouts should have came with speed for quite some time. Jaeyun mentioned that the speed upgrade should have came via the cybernetics core and that makes more sense. Imagine being able to one shot drones with a 5 +1 scout timing that doesn't take ages to build because of the fleet beacon/speed upgrade and time and cost? I do a scout opening after gateway expand vs zerg but it comes a bit too slow. 6 of them with speed and +1 attack usually comes right before 9 minutes.


why would you attack with 6 scouts? 7 is the magic number. (oneshotting overlord is way better than oneshotting drones)
Moderator
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