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Fakie
Canada62 Posts
( I watch Korean commentaries becuase I CAN! =)) so please help a newbie out and could anyone just tell/explain to me the metagame of Zerg vs anyrace? to be more specific, I watch alot of Jaedong becuase he is m favorite player. I saw that he goes muta/scourgae to counter corsairs and eventually into lurkers. that's what I'm looking for. thanks everyone.! | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
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hellbound
United Kingdom2242 Posts
 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60601 | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
"As you can see, he has built a Reaver, and Reavers have to have Scarabs built in them in order to attack." People would go "What the hell are you telling us this for?", but I digress. The second reason is that there already is a wealth of guides and videos explaining the basic how-to information on playing - you just have to be able to find it. It's not very difficult, actually, and putting effort into the research you want first shows that you are willing to do the work required to... ...wait, why am I writing this? Short version: Search function, go! | ||
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willkill4
5 Posts
Meta is mid-game. BO is the opening. As zerg, it's usually best to open b4. Which is to say, 11 pool. And then, instead of castling king side, castle queen side and instead of blitzing build your defenses (drones are the best defense) with your bishops pointing at their base but instead of charging sit and wait for them to make a mistake and have a nice build up of gas, and then when everything looks sort of stalemateish throw zerglings in groups of three every which way until they use their storms up (or vs terran, threaten drops constantly so they waste resources and apm on building turrets and placing mines) and then kill them with ultras or even easier guardian zergling hydra. seriously though, zerg is super easy at low levels. you can beat a guy with 230 apm using 160 yourself, but that's because you get 3 for 1 clicks when you make units and have more time to think about where to attack and when. they have to click on every single barracks, gate, or factory to make a unit and you can hotkey 6 hatcheries (or 2 with four surrounding each lategame ... f2, f3, f4 ) and press s h . so obvioulsy the goal is to overwhelm their apm limits, make them defend everywhere at once, while never seriously threatening. you'll be cruising at 146 apm a-moving zerglings here and there and they'll be frantically darting around the map. when you get to a higher level, obviously none of this applies. a good 180 apm toss will destroy anything in his way. but that's at like b level which i think you're short of.... since you don't know what meta game is.  User was warned for this post | ||
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O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
i agree with ninazerg | ||
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mansa
Philippines336 Posts
 Metagame first. Anyways the current style that most Zerg I've been playing against nowadays is 3 hatch spire to 5 hatch hydra to lurker contain. And I think that this build is still being used by progamers | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
On July 10 2011 00:33 mansa wrote: Ummmmm,I just want to say that please read Metagame first. Anyways the current style that most Zerg I've been playing against nowadays is 3 hatch spire to 5 hatch hydra to lurker contain. And I think that this build is still being used by progamersconsider 5 hatch hydra if you want to be more macro oriented. the main difference between this and lair tech first is that you use hydras to counter everything (initially), just the amount, what you do with them, and when you take your fourth changes really. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Zyferous
United States270 Posts
ZvZ: 9 Pool Speedling ZvP: 3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra ZvT: 3 Hatch Muta Learn these first, and practice your basics before delving into the more obscure parts of the metagame. As Day[9] has said, learning to play standard is the key to playing starcraft well. | ||
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willkill4
5 Posts
Ah well. Good look to you mate. Hopefully you took nothing of what I said too seriously? But I meant that part about frantic zerglings running amok to try to force them into panic. | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
On July 10 2011 13:06 willkill4 wrote: I'm not quite sure why I was warned, I may have been drunk but I don't understand reading it over today. A little silly, to be sure, but relevant I think. I'm learning zerg myself, and what I've learned so far is pretty much what I described. Ah well. Good look to you mate. Hopefully you took nothing of what I said too seriously? But I meant that part about frantic zerglings running amok to try to force them into panic. Most of your tips were off the mark (11 pool?, z easy to play at low levels?, 180 apm toss = b?). Generally you don't want to give advice to someone unless you really know what you're talking about edit: I didn't mean that 180 apm meant you couldn't become b level, in his post it sounded like if a toss had 180 apm he was probably b, which is wrong | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
On July 10 2011 13:39 0mgVitaminE wrote: Most of your tips were off the mark (11 pool?, z easy to play at low levels?, 180 apm toss = b?). Generally you don't want to give advice to someone unless you really know what you're talking about To be fair B protoss is possible at low apm's, it's just really rare to see that. Although saying once a protoss hits B he's unstoppable is probably what got him warned as that is a complete lie. Also the chess analogy is really unclear and guardian/hydra/ling is not a good unit composition most of the time... | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 09 2011 19:18 willkill4 wrote: Muta/scourge to counter corsairs is not meta game. That's a BO. Meta is mid-game. BO is the opening. As zerg, it's usually best to open b4. Which is to say, 11 pool. And then, instead of castling king side, castle queen side and instead of blitzing build your defenses (drones are the best defense) with your bishops pointing at their base but instead of charging sit and wait for them to make a mistake and have a nice build up of gas, and then when everything looks sort of stalemateish throw zerglings in groups of three every which way until they use their storms up (or vs terran, threaten drops constantly so they waste resources and apm on building turrets and placing mines) and then kill them with ultras or even easier guardian zergling hydra. seriously though, zerg is super easy at low levels. you can beat a guy with 230 apm using 160 yourself, but that's because you get 3 for 1 clicks when you make units and have more time to think about where to attack and when. they have to click on every single barracks, gate, or factory to make a unit and you can hotkey 6 hatcheries (or 2 with four surrounding each lategame ... f2, f3, f4 ) and press s h . so obvioulsy the goal is to overwhelm their apm limits, make them defend everywhere at once, while never seriously threatening. you'll be cruising at 146 apm a-moving zerglings here and there and they'll be frantically darting around the map. when you get to a higher level, obviously none of this applies. a good 180 apm toss will destroy anything in his way. but that's at like b level which i think you're short of.... since you don't know what meta game is. User was warned for this post Please ignore essentially EVERY part of this person's post, it's utterly terrible. And don't expect to have 160APM yourself early on. | ||
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willkill4
5 Posts
Still don't get the warning, but meh. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On July 11 2011 17:54 willkill4 wrote: Can't disagree with you guys. What i wrote was most likely mostly wrong. I was simply trying to get into the match-up itself and ignoring build orders. And when i wrote 11 pool i meant 9 pool. But ya, summarily told to shut up and rightfully so since I was drunk and do indeed suck with zerg. Still don't get the warning, but meh. Probably cause your post was so bad it gave everyone who read it cancer. With its outrageously stupid comments about how APM is going to win him games when he's just starting out and dumb comments about B level play and all that other shit On July 10 2011 04:03 Zyferous wrote: Three standards: ZvZ: 9 Pool Speedling ZvP: 3 Base Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra ZvT: 3 Hatch Muta Learn these first, and practice your basics before delving into the more obscure parts of the metagame. As Day[9] has said, learning to play standard is the key to playing starcraft well. Honestly this is the post id follow, 3 good standard BO's for each MU(you could prob do 12pool in ZvZ though if you arent comfortable with your ling micro) Just go play some iccup/fish/brain games and practice them and expect to lose alot. Read over the basics on TL wiki and try to put them into practice in a real game | ||
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willkill4
5 Posts
I don't want to be too defensive, and I get that there's not much to defend about my post, but I wasn't trying to express to him that APM will win him games. At low levels (D/D +) I think a zerg with a lower APM can play on equal ground (esp. against toss) as his/her opponent. In a sense, I was saying the exact opposite of 'APM=wins'. Harassing with zerglings mid-late game inflates the zerg players' perceived APM, and forces an opponent that probably has only 120-150 APM (again, d/d+) to work a lot harder than the zerg does. The OP asked about metagame. Build-orders are everywhere; I was simply trying to tell him one of the things that has helped me learn zerg at low levels. The stuff about chess was obviously half-kidding, and the stuff at the end was intended to say 'but don't think this suicide zergling strategy is sound, it's simply a way to learn aggression and succeed at lower skill levels', Cheers | ||
Chill
Calgary25997 Posts
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Soluhwin
United States1287 Posts
On July 20 2011 13:17 Chill wrote: FUCK I'm guessing this is because the OP accidently hit auto-replace and then replaced 'strategy' with 'meta-game'. Seriously, why is this a concept so hard to understand? strategy is how you play, meta-game would be like scouting based on previous games played against your current opponent. | ||
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On July 20 2011 14:27 xxpack09 wrote: da hell is chill bumping a terrible thread like this for? He's just searching through shit with metagame in it. | ||
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