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I have a question about using carriers in PvT. I've actually never tried them before in a game. I've always used arbiters for late game or High templars with zealot bombs.
I've never tried carriers cuz sometimes I feel like it is not the most effective way to play. But now I don't care, I want to use carriers and have this incredibly difficult skill!
So when you rush carriers, do you go with 2 base or 3? How soon do you start getting the tech for carriers? What do we cut and how do we maintain map control while we mass carriers? When do I move out? What is the critical number of carriers?
I've watched enough pros to understand that I use the carriers to pick off tanks first and then send my ground army in. Any of you carrier specialists have any other tips?
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many ways to use them
if you find an opportunity where you can spend a lot of minerals on a slow return
3 carriers with full interceptors start being quite effective they can kill 1 tank quite fast, if you surprise T with them he could lose quite a lot over that
many carriers are strong, but depends on your game how many you want... you can play with 6 carriers and keep make mostly ground and keep them alive, you can use them with your ground army or not, you can split 4 carriers there 6 carriers there sometimes.. you can do carriers + few arbiters..
upgrades are great, you could start the upgrades before starting to make carrier tech. It matters quite a lot how much your attack is upgraded compared to T's armor in particular, recommend using 2 cybernetic when you can
you could do a fast carrier off 2 bases, it's risky, or fast carrier off 3 bases with a reaver first for example (which give you potential to delay/stop the T trying to attack you without spending that much money which you put into early carriers), or you can do carriers after you are at 200/200 banking some resources build the infrastructure and start 6 carriers after next engagement.. or few carriers before 200/200..
you can play carriers with an intention of trying to boost their numbers to a winning mass carrier army, or not
you can hide them until you have 6 or the T sees them, or you can play them right away try to deny a base or something. I guess even a single carrier if you really taking a long fight to the T somewhere can deal good damage, it's just uncertain since it cost you a lot to get first single carrier
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Thanks man. It's not a cheese strat right? Sometimes I feel like carriers would only work against far inferior players. Especially at the low mmr level. I don't want to create bad habits. Even the pros don't usually carrier unless the map is crossing field.
How come pros don't go for carrier more since it is such a powerful unit?because they can die by a mid game push? Or is it cuz carriers are easily countered by mass gol?
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Getting back into Brood War, I am looking for resources related to builds (I play P). I come from an era where replays where harder to come by, and your best resource was to carefully watch Korean VODs and try to reverse engineer the build. I imagine that there are better resources now, at least replay packs or something (or FPVODs from Afreeca)?
Looking for:
Forge FE into some sort of zealot timing for PvZ (+1 speedlot with a few sairs would be my comfort). I know there's a lot of early game deviations you can do with your nexus / gateway / canon timing after you scout the Z, if there's a good resource for that great, if not I'll try to watch some pro games. I feel the least comfortable in this matchup right now. I will have to practice my sim-city on each of the ladder maps, I know there's a Liquipedia thread for that, is that the sim-city that pros use as well or is that a bit dated / inaccurate?
PvT I think I want to get a polished 12 Nexus, and a 1 gate FE, pick depending on the map. I feel the most comfortable in this matchup historically. If my goon control is not good enough to hold off FD / 2 fact, I'll practice until it's good enough, I don't want to sacrifice econ for more goons early (at least for now).
PvP. I want some sort of safe expansion build on a map with an easily held natural (say, destination), but I'll generally prefer to one base 2 gate goon + reaver and push my opponent.
Thanks!
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What maps favor Mech in TvZ?
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Maps without islands, a limited base count and without a huge open middle are good for mech, i.e. maps like Andromeda or Benzene are terrible for mech.
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Any Iccup maps or modern maps you can name that favor Mech off the top of your head? Thanks.
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On December 27 2017 22:49 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Any Iccup maps or modern maps you can name that favor Mech off the top of your head? Thanks.
Destination (a bit), Katrina, Chupung-ryeong at the top of my head
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On December 26 2017 12:39 Golgotha wrote:
Thanks man. It's not a cheese strat right? Sometimes I feel like carriers would only work against far inferior players. Especially at the low mmr level. I don't want to create bad habits. Even the pros don't usually carrier unless the map is crossing field.
How come pros don't go for carrier more since it is such a powerful unit?because they can die by a mid game push? Or is it cuz carriers are easily countered by mass gol?
i think if you do it very early like 2 base carriers its like a cheese gambly strat but can win
if you do it with 3 base with reaver before on crossposition i think its valid "standard"
or if you do it more late game near 200/200 or after I think its a valid way to make some late game plays
when it catches your opponent off guard it can be really winning and it may happen against a good T i think
I think its just difficult to determine sometimes that it's worth doing it "for sure" and also yes if the Terran replies on point and can match with large goliath production he can effectively counter it but then its a complicated battle with storms carriers goons and stuff usually or you would only go to mass carrier if your economy is bigger and you think you can just push that air win to the T i would say
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hey ProMeTheus112 thanks. I got another Toss question. What maps should we veto in the current map pool? So far I have only vetoed CB and FS since it's boring to me now. I really like Longinus. I have also done well on Jade and Tau. Are there any maps that toss is weak on?
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err well I havent vetoed any I don't think any of those maps is bad for P or P weak on it,
longinus for example I love it too, it can give an advantage to a T who does a big early push because if they get to the high ground you can be in real trouble, it's not the easiest map for P to take a third safely perhaps. but neither for T I guess, and the early game bit harder for T potentially. so P not weak on it, I wouldnt veto it I love that map
all the others I think are great though i have very little experience of Jade think its cool too
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haha, I was hoping to negate any small advantage tesagi might have =P
I noticed that in Jade, tanks can shoot from the low ground in their base and basically cover the choke that leads from natural to third. kinda suicidal to try and break through there I noticed. I like maps that have wide open areas that allow for easily flanking. maps where you can scoot back little by little in order to delay the tank push.
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yeah, i guess on jade the middle is really wide and there is also a high ground and then a high ground again before your nat, so you can defend easier as P because its long distance also you can do a high ground defense twice
it's harder to attack T on it unless very early, overall I think its still nice and different, and I think if T takes more bases it's not necessarily a map that is easy for T late game because there is lot of distances to cover?
if I would veto maps it would be FS/CB too just to play the others more often but not even doing that either^^
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Difficult maps are part of the experience of broodwar; dont run from them. Besides, if your a bad player (like say below C+), losses are due to yourself, not the map. Dont fall into excuse making.
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Does anyone have any recommendations for playing the ZvP opener where you fake a 3 hatch bust, but build up to 5 hatch with drones behind. The way I have been doing it I get 6 hydras with speed and range by 27 supply and then try to drone, add 2 more hatches, and then Lair, and fill in the usual tech after that.
My issue is that, more often than not, as I try to snipe the forward forge and gateway with the 6 ranged hydras he gets enough zealots and just kills that force and proceeds to stream zealots across the map, that either kills me or forces too many panic hydras and I fall way behind in workers. This seems doubly bad as the toss also isn't forced to build too many extra cannons.
Is this a response that the toss is reacting with more zealots than usual or is it a timing issue on my part? Should I do something differently if the toss sees the hydra den?
(This is overpool against a standard ffe, not the gate first expand)
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On December 30 2017 07:14 sheaRZerg wrote:
Does anyone have any recommendations for playing the ZvP opener where you fake a 3 hatch bust, but build up to 5 hatch with drones behind. The way I have been doing it I get 6 hydras with speed and range by 27 supply and then try to drone, add 2 more hatches, and then Lair, and fill in the usual tech after that.
My issue is that, more often than not, as I try to snipe the forward forge and gateway with the 6 ranged hydras he gets enough zealots and just kills that force and proceeds to stream zealots across the map, that either kills me or forces too many panic hydras and I fall way behind in workers. This seems doubly bad as the toss also isn't forced to build too many extra cannons.
Is this a response that the toss is reacting with more zealots than usual or is it a timing issue on my part? Should I do something differently if the toss sees the hydra den?
(This is overpool against a standard ffe, not the gate first expand)
to me it sounds like your fake is a bit too late
a ffe toss should not have enough zealots to fight the 6 hidras + 6 lings
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PvZ-
when you see Zerg going 3 hatch on 2 bases or 3 hatch on 3 bases, with a quick hydra den and no spire, is it okay to get the Citadel first and then stargate? Faster citadel for faster archives and storm. Or is it always better to get SG asap to scout with the sair and THEN react? I am wondering if sometimes it is optimal to delay the SG. If so, how would you do it and when.
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Against hydra den no lair it's always better not to get SG asap, speedlots are better (preferably not +1 because they come later and hydras can snipe the forge before you can fight anyway)
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Norway28915 Posts
To me it sounds like shearzerg is running into protosses who don't open stargate. The hydra fake is a very bad idea against a 3-4 gate speed zealot opening. If they open stargate you should always be able to handle the production from one gateway with 6 hydra+6 lings.
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@golgoltha, never delay sg, its good against anything z does. most zergs will delay den til ur probe is dead, sometimes cancelling lair
versus 3hh u need to see the drone count, if z starts droning u should stop cannoning. in general u want to see drone count anyway
~16 on minerals is generally allin 3hh, anything more is most likely an eco 3hat. if z puts more than 3 on gas theyre teching
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EPT
