EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 10
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Jubinell
333 Posts
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On June 14 2011 12:37 Jubinell wrote: I am not able to share vision and set allied settings in iccup games. These options are grayed out (I used to be able to do them like 1 year ago). Any idea why? You can't share vision or ally when on one on one mode. It's not just iccup games, the entire mode is like that. You have to play melee if you want to share vision or ally. | ||
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
On June 14 2011 06:14 jello_biafra wrote: Yeah I was aware that gas to the right or below was less efficient and requires 4 workers, what I was wondering was why 95% of the time a gas above the CC works perfectly but in some maps, at some positions (3 o'clock on Zodiac is another one I recall I think) the SCVs decide to take a different route, I'll try and get some screenshots to illustrate. I just think it's really weird because the physical setup is the exact same in each case but the SCVs act differently. Screenshots aren't perfect but they show the gist of it Normal gas ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Q7bSH.jpg) Fucked up gas ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hNc8s.jpg) Okay I did some testing and it turns out they both mine at the same rate, it's only the animation that's different, weird. That's good. The path of the SCV once it leaves the refinery doesn't matter. The important thing is how quickly they can enter the refinery. If there's always one SCV ready to go into the refinery as soon as the previous one leaves, then you will have maximum efficiency in your gas mining. On June 14 2011 13:10 lyAsakura wrote: You can't share vision or ally when on one on one mode. It's not just iccup games, the entire mode is like that. You have to play melee if you want to share vision or ally. Part of the reason one on one mode is used is because, thanks to the inability to change ally settings, allied mines are impossible. There are also ways you can abuse shared vision, but they're not as effective. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On June 14 2011 14:34 DTK-m2 wrote: That's good. The path of the SCV once it leaves the refinery doesn't matter. The important thing is how quickly they can enter the refinery. If there's always one SCV ready to go into the refinery as soon as the previous one leaves, then you will have maximum efficiency in your gas mining. Yeah that's true, I should have noticed lol. It was just something that's been bugging me for years and I wanted to finally get to the bottom of it  | ||
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hpty603
United States262 Posts
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
On June 15 2011 16:10 hpty603 wrote: Q: What's a good way to quickly lay down spider mines? Is it just shift-clicking or should I select an individual in a group, tell it to lay one down, and repeat Haha, hey you were in the channel earlier. sMi.shox ended up hosting a game for us, but I think you went afk. Anyways, I usually select small groups of vultures, and lay mines with them. It's all about magic boxes, which you can find on liquipedia. When you have 12 vultures, that's usually too many for the magic box to work, and if you left click a spot to lay mines there, they will all try to lay mines at that one spot, which of course will result in only one vulture laying only one mine. However, if you have two or three vultures, and you click a spot, they will all maintain their original formation relative to each other, move close to that spot, and then lay separate mines, which will be placed based upon how they were originally lined up. So if I have 12 vultures and I just want them to lay a bunch of mines, I'll bring them all to where I want the mines to be, keep my left hand on the i-key, and select small groups of vultures at a time to lay mines. This is where your apm comes in, of course, because if you're fast you can have all twelve lay mines in a second or two. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
If I make a hotkey group (like, say, 3 wraiths and one marine) and I put the marine in a bunker, when I move my wraiths will they stack? Or will the rine come out of the bunker? ty | ||
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On June 16 2011 02:45 djbhINDI wrote: question: If I make a hotkey group (like, say, 3 wraiths and one marine) and I put the marine in a bunker, when I move my wraiths will they stack? Or will the rine come out of the bunker? ty the rine won't be in the control group if you put it in the bunker the marine isn't changed, it disappears when it goes into the bunker and the bunker is changed. same thing happens when the marine comes out - the game creates another marine and the bunker is changed again.. atleast thats how I think it works... because of that, and since you can't group units with a building, the rine just disappears from the control group | ||
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simansh
257 Posts
Why do high level zergs take another nat/main as their third instead of something closer to their nat? And also why do many zergs favor 3 hatch muta over 3 hatch lurker in zvt? In my opinion 3 hatch lurker is a lot more safe and guarantees you your third. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
On June 16 2011 02:53 lyAsakura wrote: the rine won't be in the control group if you put it in the bunker the marine isn't changed, it disappears when it goes into the bunker and the bunker is changed. same thing happens when the marine comes out - the game creates another marine and the bunker is changed again.. atleast thats how I think it works... because of that, and since you can't group units with a building, the rine just disappears from the control group Thanks, did not know that. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
On June 16 2011 03:13 simansh wrote: Q: Why do high level zergs take another nat/main as their third instead of something closer to their nat? And also why do many zergs favor 3 hatch muta over 3 hatch lurker in zvt? In my opinion 3 hatch lurker is a lot more safe and guarantees you your third. I think your question is why Zergs put down another hatchery in their nat/main? It's not a base, it's a production facility - it's like asking why a toss player puts down 2 gateways instead of taking another expansion. The reason that zergs go for muta is because muta are more flexible, harass becomes more of an option, and it's easier economically to first support muta-ling. Then they usually transition into lurker build while taking 3rd/4th base. | ||
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simansh
257 Posts
I think your question is why Zergs put down another hatchery in their nat/main? It's not a base, it's a production facility - it's like asking why a toss player puts down 2 gateways instead of taking another expansion. Well that doesn't explain why they take another main/nat as their third. It's not just for macro, you need the gas and minerals too. But it becomes a lot harder to defend in my eyes, so that confuses me. On the 3 hatch muta thing, what if the mutas dont do any damage? If a terran does a 9 minute push your mutas will be forced on the defensive anyways. And even if you get to fly in their base, there will be turrets and marines up. So i thought why not focus on defending with lurkers and getting faster tech/ eco? | ||
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
On June 16 2011 03:13 simansh wrote: Q: Why do high level zergs take another nat/main as their third instead of something closer to their nat? And also why do many zergs favor 3 hatch muta over 3 hatch lurker in zvt? In my opinion 3 hatch lurker is a lot more safe and guarantees you your third. Usually it's because they are gunning for a 4 gas strategy like ultras. Other cases would be python where the corner gasses are ridiculously open. 3h muta forces terran to stay in his base for a while because of the threat of mutas. Even if zerg doesn't actually do much harass the possibility forces T to stay in. I'm sure a zerg player can explain better though | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On June 16 2011 03:13 simansh wrote: Q: Why do high level zergs take another nat/main as their third instead of something closer to their nat? And also why do many zergs favor 3 hatch muta over 3 hatch lurker in zvt? In my opinion 3 hatch lurker is a lot more safe and guarantees you your third. Terran and protoss use their entire army to defend their expansions, and rely on good scouting to make sure their army will be in the correct location. Zergs rely more on static defense in the mid game, because their army can't fight a protoss or terran head to head yet. Because you will be able to generate new troops at an expo (a luxury that terrans and tosses don't have), you don't need to send troops down there often. By placing it so far away, you force the opponent to take a longer time marching there, if they are successful, then they won't be in position to destroy everything else, and by having your opponent move as far away as possible, you set yourself up for some nice backstab/muta harass opportunities. Also, because you are defending it with sunkens and lurkers, you would build the same amount whether you are at a natural or a "normal" third, but at the natural, you can take the main with no additional defense required. The best answer I can give for the second one is map control. 3 hatch lurker has very little offensive potential, and you are committing to turtle until defilers are out. If terran decides to take 4 bases, you can't do much to stop them, and if they decide to do the standard 2 tank 1 vessel mid game push, you can't slow it down, and it will likely be bombarding your natural before defilers are out. At least with mutaliks you can stall the push, and you have scourge to snipe those very valuable early vessels. Oh and there will be almost no economic damage to your opponent with lurkers, but (at pro levels) almost guarantied damage with mutas. | ||
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djbhINDI
United States372 Posts
On June 16 2011 04:00 simansh wrote: Well that doesn't explain why they take another main/nat as their third. It's not just for macro, you need the gas and minerals too. But it becomes a lot harder to defend in my eyes, so that confuses me. On the 3 hatch muta thing, what if the mutas dont do any damage? If a terran does a 9 minute push your mutas will be forced on the defensive anyways. And even if you get to fly in their base, there will be turrets and marines up. So i thought why not focus on defending with lurkers and getting faster tech/ eco? ohhh, now I get what you were asking. Yeah, the reason for that is a) Map Control b) they'll need it if they want to go ultras c) well, money d) Terran (as well as P) have to stay in their main to defend against mutas, which can move a lot faster and suit the current aggressive metagame more for zerg, so they can't move out as fast. This is why they can threaten the terran player and keep them in their main WHILE they get lurkers - if they go lurkers first, Terran can take expos as lurkers aren't as quick/flexible as mutas. Also, quick lurkers give you no air attack capability (except for unmorphed hydras, which are not as good as spore colonies or scourge) and the terran can abuse Sci Vessels | ||
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NationInArms
United States1553 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On June 16 2011 09:49 NationInArms wrote: Q: How should a Terran defend his third on Fighting Spirit(the base that has two ramps) against Protoss? I usually put Supply Depots to block the ramp, set up 3 tanks, and a few turrets to prevent drops. I also put a few mines, maybe 5, in front of the ramp also. However, the Protoss always sends in Zealots first to drag the mines and then uses dragoons to take out the Supply Depots and rushes in with zealots... The best way is to just block it like you would your main, 2 Supply Depots and float your Barracks over to complete the block, have a few tanks spread out in the base, build a few turrets and lay a bunch of mines on the outside of the wall and prepare to repair it like mad if a big attack comes. Alternatively you can just place a turret at the top of the ramp, lay a lot of mines around the top of the ramp, on the ramp and some at the bottom and place a few tanks in the base, behind the gas, behind the minerals, in the middle of all the SCVs etc. and have a few vultures sitting at the top of the ramp to rape any zealots that try and take out all the mines. Edit: Holy shit post #5000! | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On June 16 2011 09:49 NationInArms wrote: Q: How should a Terran defend his third on Fighting Spirit(the base that has two ramps) against Protoss? I usually put Supply Depots to block the ramp, set up 3 tanks, and a few turrets to prevent drops. I also put a few mines, maybe 5, in front of the ramp also. However, the Protoss always sends in Zealots first to drag the mines and then uses dragoons to take out the Supply Depots and rushes in with zealots... I have the same doubt but its related to the terran 4th, it just seems impossible to take it on a map like FS against because i just can`t make my army sit there otherwise toss will attack my main and nat. Any suggestions? | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Except the Protoss AI zealot rushes me hardcore. I can usually fend off the main part of the wave with a complete wall-off of 4 marines + 1 Siege tank in time (maybe two if I work on my macro). But the AI is pretty dumb and once he kills off my force, he focuses down my Barracks instead of going for my mineral line. If a player Zealot rushes, how can I hold it off with my current build order? Do I deviate and make more marines? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Iloveoov_Build | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On June 16 2011 14:04 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm learning Terran with the basic opener of ILooveoov (Factory expand). Except the Protoss AI zealot rushes me hardcore. I can usually fend off the main part of the wave with a complete wall-off of 4 marines + 1 Siege tank in time (maybe two if I work on my macro). But the AI is pretty dumb and once he kills off my force, he focuses down my Barracks instead of going for my mineral line. If a player Zealot rushes, how can I hold it off with my current build order? Do I deviate and make more marines? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Iloveoov_Build I would advise against practising against the AI, a human opponent is very unlikely to do the 3 Gate Zealot build that they do (you can also hold off the AI's Zealots with a single Marine behind your wall, they'll just freak out in their attempt to reach it lol) If a human does do that build though then you probably want to adapt your build into 2 fact vutls, or drop them with vultures or even 3 fact vult, or wait till you have a decent number of tanks before lifting your rax and floating the CC out to expo. If a Protoss goes 3 Gate Zealot like that and you have your wall up then you're in a really good position, just delay your expo and take advantage of their lack of Dragoons with Vultures. You should upload a rep so we can see the state of your play and then we can help you more. | ||
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