EPTAnyway the build also works well on other 1v1 maps like Heartbreak Ridge. But yeah, agree with OneOther and MiniRoman. It's just one build and it's entirely map dependent or player dependent (ie you know how your opponent always plays).
[Q] PvP 3 gate goon - Page 2
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
Anyway the build also works well on other 1v1 maps like Heartbreak Ridge. But yeah, agree with OneOther and MiniRoman. It's just one build and it's entirely map dependent or player dependent (ie you know how your opponent always plays). | ||
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
1. on playing 3gate goon from 2 gate being more efficient. This is a good point, 3gate goon is ambiguous and can mean either 1gate to 3gate or 2gate to 3gate(really 1gate to 2gate to 3gate, ha). If by more efficient you mean more goons more quickly then yes. Of course, faster 2nd gate means more goons, but that typically means showing your opponent the 2nd gate which gives them a clear indication that they need enough units to beat off 2gate. 2. on 2 gate nexus - a 2gate to nexus build with probes cut in the right places will =/> a 1gate to 3gate goon production because of travel distance. But, if 2gate expo goes for constant probes+expo=few units then sure 3gate wins. - vs a 2gate goon build you can typically scout that and know to produce more goon/probes and expand later. - vs 1gate to 4gate goon can be close. Make sure to drag probes off from expand to fight as well. -vs 1base reaver play can be close. If one simply masses goons on 5gate after expo then the unit advantage is certainly there. But your opponent can go midgame dt after all so you might want robo after 2gates which cuts down on units. You also have to watch out for reaver harass and reavers splash raping goons in chokes. 3. on 3 gate goon expand will soft counter a 2/3 gate reaver push - This is like the above. Dt counter...pre-ruled out. Assumes no tech to weaken unit count. Possible issues with reaver harass and splash rape. 4. on gate/gate/robo or gate/robo/gate gate/robo/gate can give enough units to have = number of units as a 1gate to 3gate goon build due to travel distance, only worry is just before reaver pops where they might outnumber. 4gate outnumbers it though. And 2gate build can outnumber it also, and that is the case where you can typically scout them and will want to mirror with gate/gate/robo as well if on a non-ramp map at least. Do your build well, scout and react well, and roll the dice well. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/Andro.html Not the best B- in the world. He's my friend so, yeah we're just trying to get better now. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
my iccup rank isn't really relevant in this discussion so idk why ur asking | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On June 14 2010 08:31 kineSiS- wrote: o-o Cause you're the one who assumed that person was not a B- or at least was a shitty player. And Starcraft HAS ALWAYS depended on someone making mistakes... -.- ...i am almost starting to think that this is a hopeless cause but my point is that how good a build is should not be dependent on your opponent making a mistake. for example, 3 gate goon doesn't all of sudden become a better build than it was just because your opponent showed you his dt tech and you can adapt. that doesn't prove anything. you can't say that it's a great build because your opponent makes mistakes of showing you his build/strategy. i'll give you another example. let's say that a zerg player experiments with three hatch before spawning pool build and the terran tries to rush with scv/marines. he completely messes up and loses all his marines to your drone micro. however, you cannot conclude that the three hatch build is safe against marine/scv rushes because your opponent obviously screwed up. i guess he's a "B- player" but that doesn't mean he's any good. (he's not even a real B- player in my eyes) or at least he wasn't in that particular game. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
that's the most odd and ugliest smiley i've ever seen lol | ||
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Severedevil
United States4834 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On June 14 2010 13:18 kineSiS- wrote: Chess. Similar to the Giucco Piano there is this other build, it is something along the lines of the Markov. This is designed to play almost solely on the mistakes of the opponent. Giucco piano is the same but forcing. Which is better? Are you trolling me? if not, what's your problem man? I just wrote an entire paragraph explaining to you why depending on the opponent's mistakes doesn't work when discussing the merits of a particular build (its strengths/weaknesses). and that's your response? EDIT: like I'm sitting here trying to figure out what you are arguing. You are saying that 3 gate goons isn't vulnerable to DT tech because you can stop goon production and get cannons when you know he's going DTs. I am arguing that doesn't mean the build isn't vulnerable to DT tech because your opponent is supposed to hide his tech/strategy so that he can either kill or damage you. An opponent's potential mistakes don't cover up the holes in a build. And in your last three posts, all you have been saying is "SC is about opponent's mistakes." Well, no shit. But that's irrelevant when we are discussing the strengths/weaknesses and vulnerabilities of a particular build. | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
Also I would like to ask, why you would assume I am saying this build is invulnerable, it isn't but if you have decent game sense you should know when it's DT tech. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
If I could tell that my opponent was going DTs every time, why would 3 gate be considered weak against DTs? You answered your question. I didn't assume shit, stop saying I am assuming. You said multiple times that it's not vulnerable to DT because you can tell when he's going DTs and stop goon production/get cannons. And I disagreed. That's what the discussion has been about for..the last two pages. Your opponent should not be making it obvious that he's going DTs. For the last time, I will say it again. Just because your opponent makes it transparent that he's teching DTs and you can adjust doesn't mean it's not vulnerable to DTs. That's your opponent being bad, and is not relevant when discussing a build's weaknesses and vulnerabilities. At this point, I am forced to conclude that: 1) You don't have a grasp of what you are trying to say.and/or you are completely lost. A reasonable guess because you state that I am assuming something and in the very next sentence you answer your question. 2) You are really bad at StarCraft. 3) Your opponents are really bad at StarCraft. 4) You are a troll. 5) All of the above. Game sense huh? Would you like to play a BO5 and teach me a little bit of your game sense? If you don't have the balls to play, stop acting like you are good at this game. It's a more likely possiblity that your opponent sucks and can't hide what he's doing. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4834 Posts
It might indeed be viable to scramble out a cannon as soon as you're pretty sure the opponent is going DTs, when you open 3 gate goon, but then you're contained until obs while your opponent expands, and you don't have Reavers so it's pretty easy for him to defend his new expo with cannons + units while he techs storm... | ||
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