EPTI understand FD could be defended with 3~4 dragoon micro, but what do you do against a strong fd like this? I seem to get owned by this build.
I think I lost every match when terran went strong FD and i went 1gate expo.
Replay
Fighting spirit FD/strong FD woes.
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AimlessKitty
Canada54 Posts
I understand FD could be defended with 3~4 dragoon micro, but what do you do against a strong fd like this? I seem to get owned by this build. I think I lost every match when terran went strong FD and i went 1gate expo. Replay | ||
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FyRe_DragOn
Canada2056 Posts
However, your 1gate expo could also use some work. Of primary concern is the fact that you went robo super fast after the nexus, instead of getting a 2nd gate. nexus >> gateway >> robotics is a much safer opening than nexus >> robotics >> gateway because it gives you double dragoon pump at a key timing (like when the strong FD is at your natural) instead of a single dragoon reinforcing when u go robotics first. The only time id suggest going robotics first is if you know for sure he went siege expand and cant pressure you at all, and you want to do some aggression of your own with fast reavers. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
I like to think of it as, "If he hasn't taken his natural yet, since I will (or already have) the economic advantage, I should strengthen my unit count until he tries to take the economic lead back". I often try to put up as many gates as possible right after i throw down my nexus (after the second gate though, goon production gets higher priority until my natural is up and running, by which point I start teching as well). | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
strong fd = attack at ~5:30 with marines and 2 tanks and no second factory. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
You should retreat to ramp and get reaver and speedlots. then bust out when ready. Or put pylon wall in front of natural and hold ground with your goons behind it (If you are pumping outgoons rapidly). But yeah, the correct answer is don't play 1 gate expo unless you are dead sure that he is fast expoing. Just because he was at cross position != you don't scout. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
8pylon 10gate 11 assimilator 13/14 cybernetics core 15 gate-> scout with probe. Get goon range and then goons as with goon range u can kill an FD very easily. I think there is a guide on TL for this exact BO. I'll go find it quick for ya. edit: ok heres the guide it has a collection of good BOs. I would switch between the 2 versions of 10/15 gate that are in that guide and also learn some of the other BOs in there. [G] PvT Guide | ||
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
On April 04 2010 21:13 3FFA wrote: SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT! Please also learn 10/15 gate as that is a very standard BO. Generally I do the aggressive version of it instead of liquipedia's which is: 8pylon 10gate 11 assimilator 13/14 cybernetics core 15 gate-> scout with probe. Get goon range and then goons as with goon range u can kill an FD very easily. I think there is a guide on TL for this exact BO. I'll go find it quick for ya. edit: ok heres the guide it has a collection of good BOs. I would switch between the 2 versions of 10/15 gate that are in that guide and also learn some of the other BOs in there. [G] PvT Guide 10/15 is only standard on maps without ramps because with a ramp, 10/15 is extremely easy for terrans to counter | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom251 Posts
I much prefer to get a robo and obs otherwise. The micro requires practice, so I would get a partner and play a few openings against him. Also i hotkey my core so I know when range will finish. Remember timings. Roughly the tank is done when the second goon reaches his nat. I would also advise pulling back when you make the nex so that proxy facts are defended against. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 04 2010 21:37 dhe95 wrote: 10/15 is only standard on maps without ramps because with a ramp, 10/15 is extremely easy for terrans to counter And without a ramp its pretty devastating. | ||
Aesop
Hungary11305 Posts
2 Gate Fast Obs @ about 7 dragoons (~40 supply), stop goons, dual expand Switch into macro mode Should have enough goons against any early aggression, early obs to keep tracks of the Terran, and the dual expand makes you catch up in economy pretty quickly. I do not have enough experience with this build to be aware of how map dependent the build is, you might have to try that yourself. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 04 2010 22:53 Aesop wrote: I have had some success with what (e.g.) Nony did in his TSL playoff games against Horror (check the replay); it worked really well on a map like Tornado where you have two easily accessible expansions. 2 Gate Fast Obs @ about 7 dragoons (~40 supply), stop goons, dual expand Switch into macro mode Should have enough goons against any early aggression, early obs to keep tracks of the Terran, and the dual expand makes you catch up in economy pretty quickly. I do not have enough experience with this build to be aware of how map dependent the build is, you might have to try that yourself. what maps would u say this would work on besides tornado? | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
On April 04 2010 22:53 Aesop wrote: I have had some success with what (e.g.) Nony did in his TSL playoff games against Horror (check the replay); it worked really well on a map like Tornado where you have two easily accessible expansions. 2 Gate Fast Obs @ about 7 dragoons (~40 supply), stop goons, dual expand Switch into macro mode Should have enough goons against any early aggression, early obs to keep tracks of the Terran, and the dual expand makes you catch up in economy pretty quickly. I do not have enough experience with this build to be aware of how map dependent the build is, you might have to try that yourself. That build opens a timing window to 2 base timing attacks (4 fact for that expansion timing) which normally would not exist; it's quite terrible in all but a few odd situations. 12 Nexus is strictly better in accomplishing the purposes of the above build (being safe vs random allins) while still ending up better against everything else than 1 gate expand. 1 gate expand is useful to learn when you need to play someone repeatedly or in a tournament (i,e when you are afraid of proxy bbs) but you will experience the biggest jump in results (from using 1 or 2 gate safe openings) by simply 12 Nexus'ing. | ||
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neVern
United States115 Posts
On April 04 2010 21:13 3FFA wrote: SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT! Please also learn 10/15 gate as that is a very standard BO. Generally I do the aggressive version of it instead of liquipedia's which is: 8pylon 10gate 11 assimilator 13/14 cybernetics core 15 gate-> scout with probe. Get goon range and then goons as with goon range u can kill an FD very easily. I think there is a guide on TL for this exact BO. I'll go find it quick for ya. edit: ok heres the guide it has a collection of good BOs. I would switch between the 2 versions of 10/15 gate that are in that guide and also learn some of the other BOs in there. [G] PvT Guide Give me a link to a pro game played in 2010 where a Protoss has used a 10/15 gate pvt plz | ||
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Papvin
Denmark610 Posts
On April 05 2010 00:59 neVern wrote: Give me a link to a pro game played in 2010 where a Protoss has used a 10/15 gate pvt plz Half of the pvt's on Judgement day, but that still doesn't justify going 10/15 on a map with a ramp to main, which is just stupid. | ||
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
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shinjin
United States398 Posts
On April 05 2010 01:29 FlameSworD wrote: just sac your natural vs 2 fact and go reaver + 2-3 gates "sacing" your natural vs 2 fact would be a horrendous idea he would then easily set up at your natural, good luck getting past 1 base after that and it would be easy matter to predict a reaver drop, all he would need is like 3 tanks and a couple vults back at home plus some turrets and your reaver would do absolutely no damage, and hell probably have this because he started 2 factory...going 4-5 gates off 1 base pretty much means your all in, an going all in vs terran when you are contained and have a tiny ramp to go down...just doesn't seem like a good idea and for the record, i thought that Strong FD soft countered 1 gate expo 12 nexus? especially on fighting spirit it should be more safe | ||
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