Okay, so I scouted a Protoss playing a weird tech rush, quickly acquiring the Arbiter technology. The first game the Protoss acquired a quick third and I failed to counter. THe second game the Protoss went arbiters after 2 bases only and didn't even have a third. I also quickly got goliaths and Science vessels, but when I ultimately pushed I got owned and GGed. Apparently I know that I do not have feel yet becaues Ih ave only been playing one or two weeks and my macro is sub par. Second of all my micro is horrible and I seem to always fail my pushes. Please help me.

REPLAY:
Game: 1
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=28433

Game: 2
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=28432

seRapH

United States9773 Posts

January 09 2010 02:55 GMT

all right, i'm going to watch it now, but fast arbiters, especially off 2 bases, is a very viable build, and one of my personal favorites. i'm guessing either your upgrades weren't up in time, too late of a push, or just a bad push.

kineSiS-

Korea (South)1068 Posts

January 09 2010 02:57 GMT

Thank you very much.

RebirthOfLeGenD

USA5860 Posts

January 09 2010 03:38 GMT

From the little I know about PvT I would say you need to scan and scout better to recognize the build. Once you realizes hes fast teching arbs you need to do a timing push against it. The goal of your timing push is to capitalize on a time when he has little units. Since he is teching he needs more probes on gas and to spend less money on units/gateways. This will make him find himself having just a handful of units that he wants to use with his arbiter. When you attack you want to hurt his army before the arbiter is out because the arb can cause a lot of damage. I wouldn't say to rush for science vessels, just keep enough scans so that when you are pushing him if hes stalling for the arb you won't get cloak fucked.

If you can kill/damage a lot of his army during that timing push you will be ahead because he sacrificed eco and gateway count for the arb rush that can only really be effective with a decent sized army which you are aiming to cut down to a manageable size.

Just play defensively after the push and macro while teching to vessels and push out. Your army should be able to crush him if you were macroing well. When you get higher APM and better multitask you can try vulture harassing while your macro/teching as well in order to make it hard for the Protoss to establish his third.

Tazan_0

United States63 Posts

January 09 2010 03:49 GMT

Im not very talented, however I do have a very basic understanding of tvp. When scouting 2 base arbs, you essentially have two options. The first thing you can do is go for a deep push at the nat, and force a commitment, forcing his goons into ur tanks, so when he recalls he wont have many goons. Or you can secure a thrid of your own, get two arms, and wait until you have an up advantage, which you should have, because protoss cant get arbs off 2 base and ups at the same time. Always get turrets, always be careful, only push with the advantage.

seRapH

United States9773 Posts

January 09 2010 03:51 GMT

Game 1 vs BC.GiR
What I'm seeing is an FD push, which wasnt bad on either side, except you lifted your barracks slightly early, the probe could have snuck in and scouted you out.
the thing about your build is, you left no detection in your build. you got turrets only once he got dts, you got acad/scan only after he got arbiters. you got siege and speed only when you wanted to push. and you were sorely lacking in upgrades. i suggest going for a double armory build, and getting your upgrades up. when they're 80% done get your science facility (assuming you already have starport). but make sure you get an acad or ebay early to deal with dts. or reavers, considering how little of his build you scouted.

you seem to need to keep an eye on supply, you got capped multiple times, and your scv saturation was very sub-par in your nat. plus, you need to get scans a lot faster, they would have helped your pushes (even if he didnt have arbs) and adaptation by soooo much. imagine how the game would have turned out if you scanned his tech.

as for the pushes and micro, on python close positions, you want to keep your vultures laying mines everywhere, to make it inconvenient for the toss to break your inevitable push. if you had speed this would have been a lot easier. as for tanks, siege ones in front, bring back ones to front and siege those, then unsiege the back, etc. this makes your pushes a lot safer and faster.

after your initial push, where you could have won if you had scan b/c he wasted his first arbiter (actually, if you brought another scv and built a turret closer to the back of the push that would have worked too), he didnt have any working arbiters for a while, which is prime time to push AGAIN, or at least to annoy him by sending vultures to his expos and crap. also, a vulture drop in his main at any point up until he got mined out would have screwed him over completely.

so during your second push you decided it would be a good idea to stop making units. wrong. if you had, you could have brought back the game, purely because he tried to rambo your push. also, you had emp, you had arbiters right in front of you. once during the 2nd push, once right after. that 2nd emp could have prevented a recall. especially since it flew RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.

its sad watching buildings burn down

for your 3rd push, you emp'd the goons 3 times. same set of goons. emp'd thrice. and you still didnt get all of them. i understand emping once, but 3 times? that 1) overkill 2) taking emps away from arbiters that ask for it. like that arbiter that recalls a tiny army that kills off your entire main. that might be worth it.

also, as a side note, using a tank or two to defend expos is pretty worth it.

*yawn* i'm going to sleep. i watched the same rep twice to make sure i didnt miss anything, but i'll still watch the 2nd game tm.

kineSiS-

Korea (South)1068 Posts

January 09 2010 05:29 GMT

http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=28450

http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=28451

2 new games.

kineSiS-

Korea (South)1068 Posts

January 09 2010 05:57 GMT

I think what I really need to learn is several BO. Recently I've learned the 9MIN push, but now I am perfecting it. So I believe that my new BO will be a FD to Expand to a slow push, if fail will transition to a double armory build and if Python 3rd will be island.

Marksman

Malaysia523 Posts

January 09 2010 08:00 GMT

On January 09 2010 14:57 kineSiS- wrote:
I think what I really need to learn is several BO. Recently I've learned the 9MIN push, but now I am perfecting it. So I believe that my new BO will be a FD to Expand to a slow push, if fail will transition to a double armory build and if Python 3rd will be island.

If you put your expansion on an island, it's asking to be dropped since Protoss is sure to get observers. A shuttle with 4 zealots is enough to bring it down at the start. Python is a map where the Flash build isn't very suitable with the difficult third. FD to expand is another build, usually considered 4/5/6 factory push. Flash build double expands and doesn't push until much later.

Here's a tip to finding 2 base arbiters. Check for Dark Templars. If he opens with Dark templars instead of say reavers and you do not find a third, its pretty close to 2 base arbiters (Unless its 2 base carriers lol)