EPTI will try your ideas on ICCup!
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Captain Mayhem
Sweden774 Posts
 No ideas to give you, but I'll provide some moral support! | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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Johnranger-123
United Kingdom341 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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SkylineSC
United States564 Posts
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Khyrandor
Czech Republic158 Posts
don't remember anything more | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
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Dasher
United States71 Posts
Replay of NUKES! | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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ryuu_
United States1266 Posts
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
then stasis + invisible army gogo gg | ||
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Puosu
6985 Posts
On December 24 2009 02:32 GrandInquisitor wrote: Sair/goon PvT !! Asuka-jr[so] style gogogo | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
Whenever I try this, I get drop before hive, and do hydra/lurk drops. Focus on ranged attack/carapace upgrades. Spire is only for making scourge against obs/shuttles. | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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Scourge
Romania14 Posts
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
i think that idea has alot of potential if you can pull it off also the proxy hatch build, yea ive lost to that before when i get home ill see if i can dig up the rep | ||
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Shhhhhh
Romania81 Posts
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
PvP - stick with pure goon/reaver through the entire game and get Dark Archons to feedback opposing High Templars when your opponent gets them. Reavers should eat up everything without storm to stop them. ZvP - get +1 armor mutas and mass a muta/ling army off a 5 hatch opening. Get speed + drop quickly and basically harass and contain your opponents army by dropping their main with lings and attacking everywhere with mutas. Tech straight to ultras. ZvT - dual lair drop action off a 3 hatch opening. Basically instead of containing your opponent with muta harass you contain him by dropping lings in his main whenever he moves out. Either tech lurkers and transition into a normal midgame or tech straight to ultras. TvZ - use battlecruisers and yamato cannon to kill ultralisks instead of science vessels. Probably stall with mines. ZvT - how well does 12 pool 12 gas 12 expand into 2 hatch mutas work compared to the standard 12 expand 11 pool 10 gas? | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
All ling 3 hatch build with +1 attack or carapace. Observers/DT's/Sair in PvP. You snipe their obs and play like it's a PvZ. ^_^ | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
Tech to dark archon + speed shuttle Mind control drone Make Hive, defilers Win with darkswarm + zealots + maelstorm | ||
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
REVERSE SIM-CITY! Build your first pylon, forge, gateway, and two cannons at the Z's natural. Put a Nexus there if you want, or just put a second gateway where the Nexus would be. | ||
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Johnranger-123
United Kingdom341 Posts
As you dont play Terran I dunno if it will get that late into game, but should be cool anyway. | ||
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Leath
Canada1724 Posts
PvT Shuttle Galore version one What inspired me to do it was the Protoss recall ability. It seems to be a huge burden for the terran. So, why not get 3-4 shuttles and make a massing drop earlier on? I find it works really well in close air positons, like Gaia 6 vs 7, or in python if youre sharing the island base. I dont have the BO, but normally I start with 1 gate expo, 2 gate robo expo, 1 gate robo expo, and then mass an army from 4 gates initially while building shuttles. Needless to say, citadel and speed zealots are not so necessary, I prefer larger army since Im spending a lot in shuttles. Eventually you can support 6 gates of zealots/dragoons. Easy to take island expos and great mobility for counter attacks. Best to drop when Terran moved out. In sum: "Expo into mass shuttle, zealot/goon drop" PvT Shuttle Galore version two This one I saw Sonic_be doing. He goes for 1 base reaver drop, except instead of dropping the reaver first, he drops 4 zealots to kill some of the terran army. When the reaver comes it is pretty much over for the terran who went 1 base expo. (I love this guy) Though i think his build can be perfected to get the 4 zealots at the time the shuttles is ready. In sum: "One Gate robo, 4 zealots drop, into mass reaver/shuttle speed drops" TvP fake 1 barracks factory (LOL) This: Wont work in one on one in iccup because you cant share vision. But this Korean guy is sooooooo hilarious. Hahaha He made 3 racks, then build the factory, lifted 2 rax, shared vision for a seocnd then removed it. Opponent cant see lifted building under fog, so all he sees is 1 rax, 1 fac. In sum: "3 Rax, scv, mnm rush" | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Rabbet
Canada404 Posts
Go a standard mech opening, get a third gas and forth if you can(Destination works well for this), sim city like crazy and turtle like mad. Tanks, turrets and mines everywhere. When your third is secured and he has tried a couple waves to take down a base switch into +1 armor upgraded valkaries. Get a control group of them then go rape his overlords. I guess the trick is to actually secure the bases first and hold them, and in most cases this is a win TvZ anyway, I would just like to see how a zerg could come back from having his overlords destroyed over and over. | ||
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SOB_Maj_Brian
United States522 Posts
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
Go Forge Fast Expansion into Sair/ Reaver and transition into 3 base Sair/Carriers. Go into his main and snipe his hive and high tech. Bonus points if you never build more than one gateway. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
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TeH_Mentalist
Korea (South)244 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On December 24 2009 02:53 randomKo_Orean wrote: I have no idea how I am going to pull this off -.-;; trick is to get drone in his base before hi cannons up, then even if you can't kill him with ur initial lings from pool just keep building them, and at the same time put up a hatchery inside his base. While he will block it if he's clever there are several mistakes he can make, since you keep making zerglings threatening him from outside his base, he can't pull alot of units to attack the hatchery u're making inside his base so make it close to him! time 2 drones to arrive at ur inside-protoss base hatchery when it finishes (need 7pool for that i think) use mineral glitch to get them in there and attack with your zerglings at the same time to draw fire, runby if you can. Then if protoss doesn't play too well you got 2 sunkens and hatchery in enemy base  | ||
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Zvi
Israel29 Posts
Go all in mutalisks vs a meching terran. Get quick armor upgrades. Saw jaedong once win a game like this against endless goliaths. Probably due to many map artifacts. | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
Try it against Zerg too. Just do it after you get enough gols against mutas. Oh, and a strategy that actually works really well against people who haven't faced it before. Korhal cannon rush, except on collosseum. + Show Spoiler + Against another toss (maybe against terrran), make forge in base at 9 supply (cut probes), go behind their mineral line with probe, lock yourself in with a pylon and make another pylon on the other side. Put your probe next to the blocking pylon and warp in a cannon. If he's about to kill your pylon, just spam build on the spot where your pylon is, and as soon as the old pylon dies, a new pylon warps in. Gets owned if he glitches probes through though. | ||
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IPS.Mardow.
Germany713 Posts
Standard 3hatch bo vs m&m until lair, then go mutas AND lurkers at the same time^^ Might rock if u get earlier 2nd gas :p | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
Only works if you spawn at 12 o'clock on Destination. Use against Terran for best results. I send out the first probe that makes in the Nexus to build the pylon. Immediately after making pylon send the probe into their main and do the best you can to hide it (most Terrans wall in). Even if spotted it can still be effective. In this game he spotted it right away and was attacking the buildings with 3 scvs and still managed to get zealots out in time. This was a D ranked game so dunno how well it works against someone who knows what they're doing. Picture for epicness: ![[image loading]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/huskythehusky/wat.jpg) | ||
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sleeepy
Canada777 Posts
I don't know how, but please try to find a way to make it work. I'm guessing just mass MnM and use ghosts to lockdown everything. | ||
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MrMoose
Canada176 Posts
TvP - Ghost/vulture The premise is that the only things that ghosts can't lockdown are zealots and templar, which vultures own anyway. I figure Siege expand opening into 4/5 fac vulture and rush to ghost/cloak/lockdown tech and pumping ghosts out of like 3 rax. Mines to clear out lockdowned goons/reavers etc. 1 science vessel is a good choice for detection when you attack. Easy transition to goliath/ghost vs. carriers. I tried this build out once and won because my opponent went for carriers...it requires much apm to lockdown everything, and i was having some troubles with that - gl! | ||
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WheelOfTime
Canada331 Posts
It works when I play D/D+ tosses (my T offrace is prolly C-/C?). General Build goes: Siege expand (NO FD, I repeat, NO FD because you don't want P to get early obs) Transition into deep 3-6 depending on the game flow, build enough m&m not to die to the toss army. Build less tanks / get natural gas early, and build 2-3 starports. Research optical flare. Push out when you have 6-9 wraiths, scan observers and blind them, pick off shuttle/reaver/HTs as you would with mutas with your cloaked wraiths. Without splashing reavers/HTs, pure goons/zealots will melt to your mm and tanks, especially if with added wraith DPS. Denying scouting is the hardest part I've found... turrets all around base wastes too much minerals. Try ninja'ing the starports somewhere on the map where the toss wouldn't scout them, and when he sees your low rax/fact count he'll just think you're totally noob. TRY IT vs higher rank tosses please k thx. | ||
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
Go 1 base MnM; the P will either respond with either fast templar or reaver tech (if he FEs just kill him). If he goes templar, go SK terran ish and irradiate all of his HTs before engaging his army. If he goes reaver, get ghosts and use lockdown to neutralize them. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4987 Posts
I'd like to see optical flare used in: TvP (scan/optical flare/mines/wraith(/emp-nuke)) and TvZ ( optical flare/mines/wraith(/ghost)) PvZ goon/reaver/obs/sair(dweb) PvZ hallucinated archons/units instead of storm. ZvT Ensnare/Hydra(/ling) vs MM | ||
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
although it is a viable cheese (see movie vs jaedong) but a very entertaining build is the 5 gate goon strat. How about it? Even if you can't kill the other guy right away (in which case you should usually be screwed) don't give up and instead go goon temp (a build that is almost obsolete XD) | ||
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SirGlinG
Sweden933 Posts
- Parasite detect on neutral units. - Placing 1/2 lurkers behind the opponents third /second expo before the opponent has expanded, use stop lurkers. Boom, attack workers when he's filled up with workers. It will probably never work, especially if mutas are used, but with lucky placement it could be quite effective early game. As a small slow drop attack but without upgrading drop. | ||
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
Basically SK-TERRAN, but you delay your second starport, get faster 3rd base and get Nukes, i've done it a couple of times, you can launch the nuke right as defilers are poping out :D, so the idea is to use the nuke instead of tanks :D | ||
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invy
Bosnia-Herzegovina41 Posts
I am interested in Ling - Scourge - Spore combination. Since almost everyone will go muta, you go heavy scourge (cheaper) to eliminate or force mutas to run. Scourges are cheap, you can also kill overlords to mess up supply and delay the other zerg. The idea of the build is to harrass him with scourge until you have enough lings to overrun him. The goal is to run into base and kill the drones, assassin like style. Building scourge will mean that you have extra minerals to spend for zerglings. Make 2 spores to protect mineral lines. Queen comes to mind if the game is long enough: slow group of mutas and: - secondary: try to kill them with scourge - primary: use the time when they are slowed to kill the drones in his base with zerglings. Then you can build mutas yourself or finish him off with scourge/zergling combination. Since you need to get Evo Chamber earlier, +1 melee might be doable. At least 2 hatcheries are needed to produce enough units. Worth a try I think. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
this sounds really hard to do and it's OK if you don't do it. | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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Amarxist
United States371 Posts
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
On December 24 2009 09:48 invy wrote: ZvZ idea I am interested in Ling - Scourge - Spore combination. Since almost everyone will go muta, you go heavy scourge (cheaper) to eliminate or force mutas to run. Scourges are cheap, you can also kill overlords to mess up supply and delay the other zerg. The idea of the build is to harrass him with scourge until you have enough lings to overrun him. The goal is to run into base and kill the drones, assassin like style. Building scourge will mean that you have extra minerals to spend for zerglings. Make 2 spores to protect mineral lines. Queen comes to mind if the game is long enough: slow group of mutas and: - secondary: try to kill them with scourge - primary: use the time when they are slowed to kill the drones in his base with zerglings. Then you can build mutas yourself or finish him off with scourge/zergling combination. Since you need to get Evo Chamber earlier, +1 melee might be doable. At least 2 hatcheries are needed to produce enough units. Worth a try I think. Didn't Yarnc actually do something like this v type-b?w | ||
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Elaeli
Germany62 Posts
9 hat 9 pool 9 gas 9 over hat, over and pool finish at same time, build zerglings until 18/18 speed @ 100 gas, take drones off attack with 1,5 groups lings, speed finishes when your last lings are halfway to his base. drone up, 2 base hydra or muta from there | ||
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Flyingsnow
Japan208 Posts
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
Use scans to find observers and cloaked wraiths to snipe them. Tosses almost never get cannons before their 3rd expansion and rely solely on observers for detection. Combine cloaked wraiths with vulture mines for contain, map control, and expansion. Good number of probe kills before the toss becomes smart and sends more than 1 observer. The cloak should ideally finish around the time ur scans have about 80 energy...im guessing you should throw up acad as soon as you start the starport. You can prolly do this best if you transition from a facport build and make it seem like the wraiths are a counter to reavers. I think combined with vultures, this build will cripple the toss econ until he gets cannons. If he does get cannons, then he's still gonna have to deal with being contained and wasting 450-750 minerals on cannons, which makes up for the wraiths in minerals... The problem is finding the minerals and the gas for tanks hahahah so wraiths will have to be cut after the 6th wraith or something like that. | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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GW.Methos
United States249 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Harem
United States11390 Posts
On December 24 2009 10:11 win8282 wrote: Didn't Yarnc actually do something like this v type-b?w 3hat ling/scourge builds like this used to be the standard zvz until muta micro greatly improved and made them pretty obsolete at the progamer level though there are still some games where you can see a greater emphasis on scourge. At low level zvz, it's perfectly fine to do as scourge are imba then. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1903 Posts
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
TvP: m&m + ghosts and (maybe) 1 or 2 vessels. The idea: - Secure your natural earlyish either by a push or by some siege expo opening maybe. - get 2 gas fairly fast. itll naturally stockpile since you are going m&m. the idea is basically like bio TvZ except u use all the gas you would on 2 starport 1fact on ghosts instead!! How to deal with HTs and Reavers - ghosts snipe HTs/shuttles/reavers from long range. - lockdown shuttle with cloak before battle, stuff like that. - Scan + kill obs fast and kill HTs/reavers - use EMP to hit HTs. - maybe flare obs constantly to force him to spend more gas on obs! equals less HTs/reavers. You can actually get an insane amount of ghosts, it's quite fun. | ||
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natturner
342 Posts
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DeViOuS
United States22 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Been working on this kind of a build, interested to see how it'd go. | ||
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FoBuLouS
United States570 Posts
rush to arbiter and have corsairs to to kill overlords while you have a big mass of invisibility raping shit. COULD start off with corsair reaver and then transition into this. Recall to deal with campers and stasis to deal with clumps of ultras. Play PvZ like PvT excepts with lots of corsairs. Sounds very gas demanding. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
mind control a drone and make zerglings while attacking nat looooool | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Bond(i2)
Canada926 Posts
Overpool speedling, make 6-8 lings (This is assuming he went FE; make him get atleast 2 cannons). Make 2nd hat as normal and as soon as his probe is dead put drones back on gas and go for a fast den. Upgrade range and use your speedlings to stop him from scouting. Get ~6-7 hydra, then upgrade to lair immediately. Use hydra to kill his forge, he will make mad cannons at front then tech to spire and muta his main. Dunno, havent tried it on B and up but, it seems to work vs B- and below. Can you give it a shot at higher levels perhaps?? | ||
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
REVERSE SIM CITY! Build your first pylon, forge, gateway, and two cannons at the Z's natural. Put a Nexus there if you want, or just put a second gateway where the Nexus would be This was in one of the replays here on Blue storm and Toss ended up winning http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=1201 | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
P.S Chill stop eating chips and play some more matches | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
6gate Super early gate, send 2-3 probes with your initial zealot to get drone kills. | ||
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BentoBox
Canada303 Posts
Open with a 2 port wraith and tech cloak. Then make a bunch of medics (no rines), and tech Optic flare. Go to your opponent's base with your cloaked wraiths and medics and start harrassing. Every time your opponent brings an observer/overlord to uncloak you, Optic Flare it! Repeat till you've won! Or better yet, tech nukes, and rush with medics to make sure they wont uncover your cloaked ghost once he fires the nuke :D. Just hope they don't have ground detectors, hehe. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
zvt/zvp, playing standard with hydra/muta/lurker depending on mu/map/your style, but getting ensnare and queens same time as 3rd gas with the sole purpose of hiding a queen near his main/nat (and third if applicable) to regularly and repeatedly on intervals of 75 mana to ensnare his miners. pvz fast fleet beacon (after 2nd or 3rd base) combined with 5+ sairs for fast dweb to fuck up his lurker/hydra in battle (desti/hbr z tend to be more aggressiev with hydra) and/or to fuck up the mass lurker/sunk/spore at an expo when z is turtling (fighting spirit, 3/9 of desti). pvz, focus on mcing a drone sometime to either make a lot of drone to make offensive sunks on his creep, or to be used in securing expos through mass sunk/spore/lurk and make z taste his own medicine. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On December 24 2009 05:05 JohnBall wrote: A ridiculous PvZ idea: Go Forge Fast Expansion into Sair/ Reaver and transition into 3 base Sair/Carriers. Go into his main and snipe his hive and high tech. Bonus points if you never build more than one gateway. Is that supposed to be a joke? ._. That's how sair/reaver was basically always played until Bisu standardized reaver opening into fast normal ground, or so. A lot of arcadia and azalea pvzs played out like this. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
Works probably well on Colosseum or on maps that have back naturals. But watch out for DT Rushes, 4 gates won't be a problem if you have Bisu probes. I tried this way back with my friends but the only reason it worked was because of their bad decision making and control. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
So I would be really impressed if this feat could be pulled off on iccup. So there ya go - Try to win ZvP on Iccup with drones + scourge only (might add a defiler if he is too heavy on cannons). | ||
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Splendour
Bulgaria129 Posts
4 hatchery before gas -> double gas -> sunken up -> lair -> evo(+1 carapace) + ling speed -> more sunkens -> spire. Harass with mutas untill +1 armor is done then attack with mutas and gazillion lings, try to snipe firebats | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
Open with sair-river with getting 2 rivers before shuttle, then get a third and forth defending with rivers and zeals/goons. The goal is to split the map and defend well until zerg runs out of resources. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On December 24 2009 18:23 CanT.ThinK.oF wrote: ZvT 4 hatchery before gas -> double gas -> sunken up -> lair -> evo(+1 carapace) + ling speed -> more sunkens -> spire. Harass with mutas untill +1 armor is done then attack with mutas and gazillion lings, try to snipe firebats But, crazy zerg basically accomplishes everything you mention, firebat sniping with mutas, mass lings with fast ups, except it gets muta out much sooner (and thus in a better position to actually do some damage and secure some map control to setup good flanks and secure a 3rd base/gas), and just overall seems a lot less all-in and at the same time more viable. On December 24 2009 18:32 arbiter_md wrote: PvZ on small map like Blue Storm, or Destination: Open with sair-river with getting 2 rivers before shuttle, then get a third and forth defending with rivers and zeals/goons. The goal is to split the map and defend well until zerg runs out of resources. But a normal sair/reaver -> ground opening accomplishes this while initiating harass a lot sooner which forces zerg to focus on defending which is what enables to p to expo so relatively easily. Reaver with some zlots and goons are no problem to attack/kill for zerg with hydralisks, especially with some lings to waste the initial scarabs. Also, reaver/sair is less viable in general on small maps like that where z can so easily defend and block sair/shuttle movement. Bluestorm in general gets split evenly in almost every zvp through standard ground-play as is. | ||
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Cheeseball
Australia208 Posts
On certain maps only, like desti and HBR, overpool and mine out the back mineral and avoid their simcity | ||
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
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invy
Bosnia-Herzegovina41 Posts
On December 24 2009 10:11 win8282 wrote: Didn't Yarnc actually do something like this v type-b?w I didn't see that game. I found this series Yarnc v type-b: http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake#p/search/1/9xSRLi5m5iA Maybe its the second game, but its short version. | ||
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
i was going to tell you to do this, then i realized i could do it myself. : ] | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On December 24 2009 19:05 jodogohoo wrote: i was going to tell you to do this, then i realized i could do it myself. : ] Nice 4pools build | ||
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win8282
Korea (South)454 Posts
I jut remembered thi ridiculous build that has been tried once by Nal_ra. In PvP go 2 stargate corsairs + dt + obs. snipe obs with sair and kill shit with dts. | ||
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sYz-Adrenaline
United States1850 Posts
how about pvp sair/dt x) | ||
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
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qoou
Norway145 Posts
ZvT: Drop 3-4 defilers in T base and plague all of his clustered supplies. TvZ: Versus expanding, small army (lurker) Z: Research stim -> optical flare -> range and move out with m&m. Find, scan and blind lurkers to limit their effectiveness. Cool for run-by or surround tactics | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
On December 24 2009 18:32 Nightmarjoo wrote: But a normal sair/reaver -> ground opening accomplishes this while initiating harass a lot sooner which forces zerg to focus on defending which is what enables to p to expo so relatively easily. Reaver with some zlots and goons are no problem to attack/kill for zerg with hydralisks, especially with some lings to waste the initial scarabs. Also, reaver/sair is less viable in general on small maps like that where z can so easily defend and block sair/shuttle movement. Bluestorm in general gets split evenly in almost every zvp through standard ground-play as is. As far as I've seen the standard sair-reaver get's the third quite late. I think if you get two reavers, slow shuttle and secure the third with one reaver and some ground army, while the rest defends the natural you should be safe. In the standard sair-reaver, you go speed shuttle, start harrasing and get the third much later. Actually something similar I've seen Stork doing in his game vs Zero. The game from here doesn't look to me like standard sair-reaver. The game from here is rather standard sair-reaver to me. And the third is quite late comparte to the first game. My idea is to get an easy and safe strategy for low level pvz. | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
On December 24 2009 22:35 dhe95 wrote: PvZ: 2 gate scouts Would like to see that too. Imagine it to work well with pure Zeal/DT ground army (since overlords get squished quickly) and to transition well into carriers. Also allows drone killing from air. The two question marks (apart from the build time) are how well scouts defend against scourge and how hydras are handled. | ||
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Kurai
Canada167 Posts
my friend did it once to try to get fast upgrades. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
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LordWeird
United States3411 Posts
On December 25 2009 03:12 Zoler wrote: rofl I did all these already.. I feel like I messed around too much I'd love to see your rep of a 5fac pure vulture. Plz provide. Thank you sir. | ||
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Aim Here
Scotland672 Posts
Pure cheese 8-worker rush. Have no econ at all, have you and your teamie rushing to one of the two enemy mains, so that you have 8 workers attacking 4 or whatever. Then repeat against his teamie (or not, depending on whether he's actually managed to build actual real units by this time).. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On December 25 2009 03:21 LordWeird wrote: I'd love to see your rep of a 5fac pure vulture. Plz provide. Thank you sir. Well that can be a problem it's probably somewhere in one of my 50 autoreplay folders  Mass vult is so fun haha, but I think I made some tanks in the beginning to survive. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On December 24 2009 19:05 jodogohoo wrote: i was going to tell you to do this, then i realized i could do it myself. : ] Don't forget to type TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE the whole game... Or when you're about to die say "oh, I guess this doesn't work on this map." | ||
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Slugbreath
Sweden201 Posts
The Stove: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94911 | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Duckvillelol
Australia1240 Posts
On December 25 2009 04:54 Slugbreath wrote: I want to see how well the Stove actually works. The Stove: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94911 Read the thread properly, it actually has posts about it. | ||
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Infested Terran
80 Posts
The idea is that you make lots of lings - but opponent does the same. Then make an evo and start making carapace - then make 4->6 spores. And tech to ultras!!! When hive is done add spores if needed. When you have +3 ultra carapace and around 7ultras+many lings attack. You trade your lings vs his lings.. mutas attack your ultras but pityful 9damage does not much vs your 4 carapace ultras - try to kill his drones. Then switch to mutas and win; while continuing harass with ultras XD | ||
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Neivler
Norway911 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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YejinYejin
United States1053 Posts
I believe that if you send out your fifth or sixth probe, you have enough eco, and you're fast enough for at least an overpool. 9 pool might be a bit too fast, but only if they don't hesitate at all and try an immediate runby. Once you have the entire sim-city set up, they need to build sunkens to break it. Then you build another pylon, forge, and gateway at your natural, plus a Nexus. Add two cannons when they break the sim-city at their base, and just play as normal. Their natural is already delayed a lot, so they need to waste maybe 400 or 500 minerals to even it out. Considering they need one or two sunkens (depending on the range), that's 250 minerals in lings, or just 10 lings more than they would have originally built. I think it's worth it. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
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Hudic
Slovenia10 Posts
And i always wondered if you could go somekind of very fast defiler tech in ZvZ like 2 base defiler with lots of spores to support you. then quickly reaserch plague and make either hydras or prefered mutas since it would be easier to have mutas and making scourge while in lair -> plague time... and then transfer to mutas And what about sair/dt in PvP make like 5 sairs and obs with speed kill his obs and let the dts have fun | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
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DeathSpank
United States1029 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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daz
Canada643 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
On December 25 2009 04:50 Chef wrote: Don't forget to type TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE the whole game... Or when you're about to die say "oh, I guess this doesn't work on this map." ![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/27217.jpg) | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
TvZ +1 armor marines vanilla style (no medic, no academy) depot > barrack > refinery > ebay 2 scvs on refinery > get 100 gas then take off upgrade +1 armor as soon as ebay is done move out with 6-8 marines and sit at zerg's choke, force zerg to sunken add barracks and depots as you go along, rally to zerg's choke outside of their vision should have 3 barracks pumping marines return scvs to gas when minerals are well saturated attack when +1 armor is done (this should be well before mutas or lurkers) add academy (research range/stim and get medics if fails) add 2-3 more barracks if you succeed in breaking, or expand if you fail since you have an ebay already, you can turret up for muta harass if game still progressing, transition into regular TvZ bio edit: this is mainly for sunken breaking without medics (since marines with +1 armor can withstand 3 hits instead of 2) | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
On December 26 2009 14:52 Not_Computer wrote: I was gonna keep this for myself but I suck so much I can't pull it off. TvZ +1 armor marines vanilla style (no medic, no academy) depot > barrack > refinery > ebay 2 scvs on refinery > get 100 gas then take off upgrade +1 armor as soon as ebay is done move out with 6-8 marines and sit at zerg's choke, force zerg to sunken add barracks and depots as you go along, rally to zerg's choke outside of their vision should have 3 barracks pumping marines return scvs to gas when minerals are well saturated attack when +1 armor is done (this should be well before mutas or lurkers) add academy (research range/stim and get medics if fails) add 2-3 more barracks if you succeed in breaking, or expand if you fail since you have an ebay already, you can turret up for muta harass if game still progressing, transition into regular TvZ bio edit: this is mainly for sunken breaking without medics (since marines with +1 armor can withstand 3 hits instead of 2) whats the point if they cant stim.. | ||
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Achromic
773 Posts
I dont know if this has been said or not but... Try for TvT SK Terran | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
After securing a 2nd or possibly a 3rd, try going for a 2+ dropship full of MnM with stim (range not too necessary) in order to destroy P's tech in the main. This should be attempted before Arbiters come out, preferably. PvAnything Simultaneous storm drops on every mining base to attempt to kill every worker the opponent has. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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mmgoose
769 Posts
pure vultures + ghosts. go | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
[Kinda Allin] Burrow and Speed-Ling Rush Get gas before pool aka. 9 gas 8 pool (u gonna need a lotta gas early). As soon as pool pops get speed then gas. Make only lings and kill off all of his drones. How it is executed Send your initial 6 lings to his base as normal to harass and put pressure. Make a few more drones after, these are the last ones that you will make. You will be too far behind to be able to catch up in Muta count. This strategy is desigend to catch your opponent off guard and kill enough drones that he'll not be able to make any mutas, or like 1 or 2, and by then you'll have spores. I got the idea from that Boxer vid of demonstrating correct zergling micro, same idea. Pressure them, burrow some lings right outside of their base, lure their lings out of their base and run in + kill. The best part of getting burrow is not oly being able to set ambushes, it is being able to harass their mineral line, then burrow, fight them in their base, get out of ovie sight range, then hide. If you keep on running lings into their base and hiding them, it works well. Another thing you need to do is throw down another hatch in your main and take drones offa gas. | ||
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bITt.mAN
Switzerland3693 Posts
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Lurgee
Australia252 Posts
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PobTheCad
Australia893 Posts
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
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ZBiR
Poland1092 Posts
1 base 3 fact pure vult (1 addon for upgrades, but no tanks, stop mining gas after you have mined enough) You may have to cut scvs some for this to work, but the idea is to hit them before they have a reaver, needs good vult micro. | ||
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EsX_Raptor
United States2801 Posts
TvZ m&m + ghost drop @ using flare to blind ovis and nuking the zerg's main or expos. | ||
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arcticStorm
United States295 Posts
After getting science facility, stop marine production, go for ghost firebat medic vessel army. Blind overlords, irradiate lurkers, lockdown everything else, and NUKE. Edit: sorry being idiot...lockdown doesn't work on bio units TT | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On December 27 2009 09:17 arcticStorm wrote: TvZ After getting science facility, stop marine production, go for ghost firebat medic vessel army. Blind overlords, irradiate lurkers, lockdown everything else, and NUKE. you realize thats not possible? you would need like 2 double gas expos to support that huge gas-intensive army. plus, LOCKDOWN DOESN'T WORK VS ZERG, THEY DON'T HAVE MECHANICAL UNITS. | ||
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t_co
United States702 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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GTR
51446 Posts
and not the fancy pants new way, the real way. | ||
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lt.dunbar
United States29 Posts
go 2 hatch lurkers with fast queens nest when lurkers pop don't attack just contain the terran build queens and broodling any tanks he builds to break the contain double expo and tech to ultras asap | ||
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Re-Play-
Dominican Republic825 Posts
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arcticStorm
United States295 Posts
On December 27 2009 10:39 lt.dunbar wrote: try this in ZvT go 2 hatch lurkers with fast queens nest when lurkers pop don't attack just contain the terran build queens and broodling any tanks he builds to break the contain double expo and tech to ultras asap ensnare + scourge science vessels at the same time would be nice too | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
really did it versus someone. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
i did it on andromeda, was pretty fun. would get raped if they are good with vultures i either went 1 zealot -> 2 goon or 1 zealot -> 2 goon -> 2 goon -> + 3 gate and cita im not sure the exact order btw i know i got 2 - 4 goons to stop early vulture, and the natural choke wasnt huge | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
Get well soon!:D | ||
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xhuwin
United States476 Posts
7 Firebat 1 medic drop in the minline -- just because incinerating probes is that much fun. Maybe work it in with that ghost + mm idea? You need the starport for the scifac anyway, might as well do stimmed fb drops. pvt / pvz / maybe pvt, unlikely: hallucination timing attack. i don't know the specifics. just make it work! pvp: dt harass into dark archon, mc the shuttle if they go reavers | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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bobobby999
United States23 Posts
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KwarK
United States42649 Posts
On December 27 2009 10:19 GTR wrote: the stove and not the fancy pants new way, the real way. But scout into dt is so bad! Dt into scout actually works... sometimes. | ||
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
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Ya Jae Moon
United States31 Posts
Late game unit composition of Ultra-Hydra with defilers. Would be so sexy. | ||
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SaveYourSavior
United States1071 Posts
TvP nuke anywhere (empty spot or their base or just cancel) and as soon as the nuclear launch is detected do a fast push while they are distracted | ||
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2minutevictory
United States89 Posts
Then take both of your gas and tech to templar archives as soon as possible. get 1 dt, then make 7 gateways, cut probes, and mass speedzeals/archon. Then go for the kill. The archons can disarm mines and take a billion hits while the zealots destroy everything else. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
Sad that the vult idea didn't work. I do this build often but I want to see someone else's impressions. PvT, start off standard up til core, and only make goon if you haven't killed the scout. Don't bother faking range and plop down a citadel and a second gateway. Now, this can work whether the scv sees it or not. If he sees it, all the better. Kill scv after he sees citadel FAST, then plop down a bunch of gateways. You should have around 3 or 4 in total. Now, stop gas mining once you have 150 gas after citadel, then cut probes once citadel's done. Upgrade zeal speed and mass zealots. You can play around with this build a bit and try to alter the timings but that's the general idea. Rush into their newly planted expansion and destroy everything. If they had a wall, they'd likely have lifted the rax and used it as a scout. If not, get under it asap so it can't land, If it does, get as many zeals through as possible and batter on a supply depot and kill it fast. Will own any Terran that's unprepared. Oh, and when running to their base, send 1 zealot ahead of the rest to clear mines. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On December 28 2009 03:31 Xiphos wrote: PvAnything, Hallucinate Carriers for a bluff. Yeah and the Terran EMPs you as a routine defense and gets surprised your army vanished. | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
u 12 pool then use spores defend against muta, +1 ground armor mass lings and pwn him PVT use DA mc his scv and nuke him | ||
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ThePsiTooz
New Zealand27 Posts
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Au
Japan19 Posts
Proxy Stargate(use 3rd pylon) and harass with 2-3Scouts and transition into corsair/goon. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
do the valkonic build but with ghosts and nukes to bust in instead of siege tanks. drop his main with a cloaked ghost and double nuke for teh lulz, use valkyries to clear his OLs. ok actually don't try the second part of that. This would have a lot of problems with early lurkers before you get enough vessels but your opponent shouldn't make them that early unless he reads your fake mech intentions really early... so you'd have to hide that really well, or just go real mech and pwn him if he does get early lurkers. Ghosts also have more range than lurkers so they can kill one or two, and they're sort of like goliaths against mutas. | ||
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Traveler
United States451 Posts
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
. | ||
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
Or go 10 rax at nat -> proxy bunker at other dudes nat -> 14cc -> 4 port wraith with no ground army | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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UFO
582 Posts
2 muta groups, with +1 cara atack . Economic build , meant to outmacro opponent. Starting of 5 hatch , getting all your eco like for 5 hatch mass hydra , so around 42 drones , except making +2 extractors early - and then making 2 groups of +1 armor muta atack on main or nat , destroying w/e possible and worth it. It can kill opponent right off but its not necessary , nor the whole aim of this build Defending counter-atacks with sim city and sunkens. Follow up with Lurker tech and mass hydralurker + queens ( they do good vs many zealots that protoss will mass, esnared zealots lurkers or trying to run away , yeah ). Midgame control / expanding - into ultrahydra/ultraling. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
i was just thinking, though, ghosts/goliaths/vult mines/vessel/tanks tvz that seems pretty sexy i would also like to see a 1 fact expand into a 2 fact+addon 6 rax deep 6 where you transition into ghosts... so getting the starport and science facility with extra money.... would be like tank, marine, ghost, medic, 1-2 science vess. possibly too gas heavy, but hey, that just means more marines, right? | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
On December 29 2009 14:30 Traveler wrote: That Muta/Ling build that he did would get eaten alive by Sair/DT... if I don't scout a hydra den anywhere I'm putting down a second stargate and just pumping sairs and dts all game... It only gets eaten if P gets +1 attack early. Otherwise +1 armor mutas and scourge > no upgrade sairs. That gives you a window to kill all of P's sairs before he catches up in upgrades. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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[AhunGrY]MelOn
United States357 Posts
academy before supply depot into pumping firebat medic from proxy 1/2 rax. maybe save up to 3bat/1medic (similar to that factory before supply depot) TVZ: 2rax 1 fac firebat heavy bio army and sieged tanks to bust a 3hatch zerg's nat, turret the contain for antimuta PVZ: skip stargate, 5 gate goon add 2 forge and get 1/1/1 upgrades, push with pure goons when upgrades are done (or 1/2/1 upgrades +2 shield doesn't need any tech) PVZ 2 gate at nat FE and put up a battery if he goes pool first or just FE and do some damage if he 12hatches | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
defense matrix on spider mine | ||
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bluemanrocks
United States304 Posts
On December 30 2009 10:55 randomKo_Orean wrote: Once I get through all these projects, I'll start updating the OP with more, but for now be content with updated project 18 (PvT probe rush). So be patient. And word of encouragement would be nice, I am doing all these strategy for your entertainment too. ;D well im unimaginative and have nothing to add strat/suggestion-wise, but upon reading this i guess ill chime in that this is one my favorite threads EVER in the strategy section, and perhaps all of tl. i love the idea of this, and if i were anywhere close to good i would jump on this idea like cosby on jello jokes. seriously, tl needs more threads like this. //appreciation. | ||
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ShinyGerbil
Canada519 Posts
it's basically this: lose to uw)antimage. think you could see if it works and get back to me? /troll anyways, i was wondering if in tvz you could load 1-2 scvs in with a drop, and use them to build depots to wall off. for example on destination, if you drop the nat i'm pretty sure you can build 2 depots on either side behind the mineral line and wall your marines in. depending on the timing, it could be nice. | ||
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WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
pretty fun actually. | ||
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Seiche
United States23 Posts
http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=13369 | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
The thing to note, though, is that you need a fairly long choke to pull it off without sunks hitting your wall. Edit: Also, thanks a lot randomKo_Orean, for this thread, and for the tests. It's a really fun read :D | ||
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
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G3nXsiS
United States656 Posts
Sit at 3 bases, get adequate tanks and anti-air (turrets, goliaths). Build only 4 factories and 2 with machine shop. Spend the rest on 2-4 starports. If you need to, you can also produce wraiths to ward off dropships. This strat sacrifices alot of map control and requires some nice suprise timing. Good luck hopefully you can pull it off. | ||
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BraveNewWorld
United States229 Posts
If they spot your probe count, then that's OK. or...alternatively... TvZ, do a 4SCV/4Rax rush, send out your fifth scv immediately when it's done warping to like mid of map or something, build rax, while rax is bulding build scvs, stop scv prod. at 7, then once rax is 3/4 way done send 2~3 scvs to opponent's base and do a boxer-esque bunker rush. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On December 31 2009 09:32 BraveNewWorld wrote: TvZ, do a 4SCV/4Rax rush, send out your fifth scv immediately when it's done warping to like mid of map or something, build rax, while rax is bulding build scvs, stop scv prod. at 7, then once rax is 3/4 way done send 2~3 scvs to opponent's base and do a boxer-esque bunker rush. Would you even be able to afford a bunker doing this? On December 30 2009 18:02 ShinyGerbil wrote: anyways, i was wondering if in tvz you could load 1-2 scvs in with a drop, and use them to build depots to wall off. for example on destination, if you drop the nat i'm pretty sure you can build 2 depots on either side behind the mineral line and wall your marines in. depending on the timing, it could be nice. I remember doing this on Lost Temple when dropping the 6 o'clock natural (not the fixed Lost Temple, the original shitty one), although I have no doubt that OP could actually make it work in a proper game far better than I did. I've always loved doing cute building blocks and pylon tricks (powering cannons up a cliff, through a wall, whatever) | ||
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Diminished
28 Posts
Obviously will only work at very low levels... | ||
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nicoaldo
Argentina939 Posts
Shauni beat IdrA using this build (he went normal 10 gate i think, but still its viable) | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Kleander
United States334 Posts
I would assume it would start with a 3hatch mutie build then instead of switching to lurkers, you try and mass up as many muties as possible (careful of the vessels) and prop up a queens nest, and infest his command centers with an all in mutie bomb aimed directly at his CC go go randomKo_Orean hwaiting! | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On December 27 2009 13:45 Floophead_III wrote: I'd like to see a hydra/queen build vs a mech terran. I've experimented with it in the past and had actually very impressive results, but I'm not a terribly good zerg player so I'd like to see your success with it. Basically the idea is instead of spire get a queens nest. Gol heavy builds will melt to hydras anyways, and if they go tank heavy you just slow them up with your hydra while your queen energy builds, then broodling the hell out of their tanks, especially so that they splash themselves. It's also a much faster hive so if they're going very gol heavy you can hive quickly and try to get out some defilers which make gols useless. Yes I know I said queen, but try it you'll be surprised =D has this been overlooked? i've tried hydraqueen before and it can work wonders if timed right. granted, the past few games i've used this the queens popped way late but once you get it down i'm sure it'll be a viable alternative. | ||
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t_co
United States702 Posts
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
Make a reaver and a shuttle. Load the shuttle with the reaver and a probe. Map needs to be like destination or something, where you can fly the shuttle directly ontop of the rap going from main to natural, without the shuttle being detected. Pylon off the ramp. Proceed to watch SCV's struggle to escape from main -> natural, then lol as your reaver racks up 50 kills. | ||
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
On January 02 2010 06:18 Adeny wrote: This idea is GLORIOUS, have at it: Make a reaver and a shuttle. Load the shuttle with the reaver and a probe. Map needs to be like destination or something, where you can fly the shuttle directly ontop of the rap going from main to natural, without the shuttle being detected. Pylon off the ramp. Proceed to watch SCV's struggle to escape from main -> natural, then lol as your reaver racks up 50 kills. Nice idea but there is few problems with this idea: first you need to drop probe first then run shuttle with reaver to min line then drop rvr to make scv's run, then pick it up run to the wall then drop again...and your probe should live up until he lifted his rax to get scv's thru and build stuff to this actually work. Not really doable. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
Instead of getting siege upgrade and tanks, get vult upgrades instead (mines and then speed). I'd imagine this would require a much higher micro ability, and would get owned bad if he got ovie speed really fast for no reason, but I'm curious to see what would happen if a player of your ability tried to pull it off. | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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Rainbow
United States249 Posts
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Adeny
Norway1233 Posts
On January 02 2010 07:10 IceCube wrote: Nice idea but there is few problems with this idea: first you need to drop probe first then run shuttle with reaver to min line then drop rvr to make scv's run, then pick it up run to the wall then drop again...and your probe should live up until he lifted his rax to get scv's thru and build stuff to this actually work. Not really doable. What are you talking about? That's pretty incoherent there... What do you mean lifted his rax? Who the hell keeps his barracks on his wall after he has already expanded? the barracks will obviously be floated out to shield for tanks. So what's left is a barracks-thick opening that you fill with pylons, it's not that hard. | ||
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On January 02 2010 13:50 Xeris wrote: luke are you fucking joking me lol? i'm going to castrate you if you lose your game on sunday, seriously. loollololololollololol | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
pvz -> fe with early gas. then skip stargate and build two archives instead to get maelstrom and storm at the same time. i "designed" this to counter mutas, and at my level it seems to work. | ||
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Neobick
Sweden208 Posts
1 rax fast expand with double ebay, fast upgrade marines and Push out for a sunken break when 2-2? | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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MidnightGladius
China1214 Posts
I know you probably have more than enough projects backlogged, so I'll save my suggestions for later. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
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zergnewb
United States816 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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yoden
United States64 Posts
For project 21, I see crap like this all the time. Another variation is to 12 hat, then mine it out later (usually, P will assume you're gonna leave it alone eventually). Get zergling speed and deny scout. Then run in with a control group of zerglings and pwn the main. This works especially well if the P didn't make much zealots or dragoons, and you can follow it up with quick lurkers if it doesn't beat them. I'm pretty sure with the right combination of the different mineral mining strategies and normal play a D+ player could beat me something like 90% of the time (I'm D+ also). | ||
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stoned_rabbit
United States324 Posts
but yeah, if you want a real challenge. tvz go 3cc scv and do a scv runby. there was a replay of someone doing this in the "cheese/funny/mass/owned" thread. shits funny. | ||
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QuakerOats
United States1024 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/28223.jpg) | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
It's good lol | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
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Impervious
Canada4199 Posts
12 pool 11 gas into 1 hatch Lurker vs a bio build (preferably a 1 rax expand). Make no more than 6 Lurkers. Keep getting gas. Only make lings as needed. The extra drones from the 12 pool will be needed. While the attack is going on, put down a queens nest, evo chamber (armor upgrade), nat hatchery plus the gas (if it isn't down yet), then get your hive. Make some extra drones at this point. When the hive is up, get ultra den, and pump ultraling, from 2 hatch. You should be able to get a few ultras, plus the extra carapace or speed for ultras, +1 carapace, speed and crack for lings. I'm not sure which order you would have to get the upgrades though. Hopefully, the lurkers would delay the terran long enough to get this army. Should be a huge WTF moment for the T when he sees that army. | ||
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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KwarK
United States42649 Posts
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
3 Hatch before pool into lurkers. Focus on controlling the center of the map throughout the entire midgame using a lot of lurks, lings and 6-8 Queens to defend against the first tank push. Delay your hive slightly so you can focus on making a huge midgame army and queens. Take your 4th as soon as defilers come out. Transition to hydra-lurker and always keep your Queen count to at least 6-8. | ||
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DoX.)
Singapore6164 Posts
On December 31 2009 12:50 Diminished wrote: TvP, "Reverse Cheese": Tired of being manner pyloned and gas stolen by those noob cheesy protosses? Turn back the tables! Send your ~7th scv out, find the opponents base, and gas steal them! If that turns out well, then also try to put a manner supply depot into their min line. (This is unlikely to work, so maybe build it in a manner position at nat?) Obviously will only work at very low levels... This will prompt the toss to do the much feared computer toss 2 gate zealots | ||
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Faceroll
Sweden12 Posts
Force the Terran to stay inside his base with an early lurker contain. Take over the command center in the middle, lift it off and get it somewhere you can protect it. Grab your third expansion and fast tech to defilers while he breaks your contain with tanks and you are massing infested terrans. Then, pinch attack when he's crossing the middle. Throw in all your lurkers/lings from one side, but save your dark swarm. When his units are busy fighting them and he is retreating to get out of range of lurkers, dark swarm and run in with all your infested terrans from behind. Add scourge to take out science vessels for the ultimate suicide strategy. If the game goes on longer, practice drops with infested terrans to take out all his workers on the mineral lines. If they are protected, destroy his factories and starports. The explosions do enough damage to take them out quickly. Challenges: - being able to hold him in his base/nat for long enough to get dark swarm - microing your suicide squads well enough to make sure they don't all die on the same target - and obviously, not having your infested command center sniped somehow | ||
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Impervious
Canada4199 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
just spent like 4+ hours watching the reps | ||
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BraveNewWorld
United States229 Posts
On December 24 2009 02:26 randomKo_Orean wrote: Project 18: PvT + Show Spoiler + First Impression:lol Result: almost, but not quite - but I still managed to crawl back into the game and won. Replay: ![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/27407.jpg) Note: Not the highest level, but I managed to win after losing my 4 initial probes, vulture/tank harasses, and losing my nat. MY FUCKING HERO!!! | ||
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gnr9292
90 Posts
against go traditional 3 hatch muta produce some lurkers to get to hive and to secure 3 or 4 gas than just pure hydra+(defiler)plague vs bio | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
I am disappointed to not see my idea in any of the projects. Hydra/queen vs mech t. It does require your opponent doing something specific, but play on desti and you'll see it unless they're being silly. And if you really don't want to do that, try using a dark archon lategame pvt to snipe out vessels the way they snipe hts in pvp. No emp would be devastating, the range on feedback is stupid high too and dark archons don't die that easily so tank splash probably won't kill it in battle. I think it's viable, and it's only 250/200 so it's almost 0 investment. If they don't make vessels, well you've probably already won so no worries =P | ||
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ultramagnetics
Poland215 Posts
On January 07 2010 14:27 exeexe wrote: Is this a good defence against mutalisk harashment? On mineral line have an arbiter. Arbiter will make it impossible for mutalisk to shoot on probes. Have 2 archons proxied, then if the mutalisk begins to kill the arbiter just recall the 2 archons and good bye mutalisk GG. The thing is you could have spent too many ressouces (units energy etc) for the defence, so lets say what you have to say Quote from different thread. try this please. | ||
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prodiG
Canada2016 Posts
turtle or something to dark archons and arbiters mind control scv tech to siege tanks recall sieged tanks into mineral lines GO! | ||
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NeoOmega
United States495 Posts
You could start w/ a standard 3 hatch muta into lurker, but get spine upgrades instead of melee. Mass hyrdalisk off thee bases while using excess gas to build lurkers and a few queens. Use ensare to hold off any mid-game pushes and in the late game use defilers mainly for plague. Nooby Zero Clutter and BGH games have taught me that hydras supported by queens and defilers can rip apart marines supported by medics and Vessels. The smart terran response would be to trade vessels for tanks and that shit causes problems. This build leaves has three major issues that need answering. 1) Do you have enough gas in the midgame to build mutas. get all 3 hydra upgrades, build queens, upgrade ensare, and have sufficient lurkers to hold the terran back? 2) Is spawn broodling a viable counter to mass tank? (150 energy -.-) 3) Do you need the hands of christ to micro all those spellcasters? | ||
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CoOl]1st[
United States243 Posts
PvZ -> incorporate like 3++ shuttle play like mass drops in opponents main? TvZ -> FE to mm/BC PUSH:D ZvP-> 2 base defiler/crackling push really fast like >10 minutes if possbile? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
Reasonably standard game, but off two or three bases, get 2 dropships and use them for +1 M&M drops, like an Arbiter recall. (Aim to kill expansions or tech/production centers. 14 stimmed marines have ridiculous DPS.) | ||
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old times sake
165 Posts
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
against protoss | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
it works!! | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
I'll think of something for you | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
Go into a DT build, get a dark archon and a shuttle. Mind control an SCV and steal it away. Tech to factories and start pumping tanks. Meanwhile tech to arbiters. Keep Terran busy and recall a shitton of sieged tanks on his main. :D | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On January 07 2010 01:46 Faceroll wrote: Play ZvT on Holy World. Force the Terran to stay inside his base with an early lurker contain. Take over the command center in the middle, lift it off and get it somewhere you can protect it. Grab your third expansion and fast tech to defilers while he breaks your contain with tanks and you are massing infested terrans. Then, pinch attack when he's crossing the middle. Throw in all your lurkers/lings from one side, but save your dark swarm. When his units are busy fighting them and he is retreating to get out of range of lurkers, dark swarm and run in with all your infested terrans from behind. Add scourge to take out science vessels for the ultimate suicide strategy. If the game goes on longer, practice drops with infested terrans to take out all his workers on the mineral lines. If they are protected, destroy his factories and starports. The explosions do enough damage to take them out quickly. Challenges: - being able to hold him in his base/nat for long enough to get dark swarm - microing your suicide squads well enough to make sure they don't all die on the same target - and obviously, not having your infested command center sniped somehow Rofl Try it try it!! | ||
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SaetZero
United States855 Posts
some kind of Econ or Fast tech opening (e.g. 12 hatch (probably this)or 3 hatch before pool) power drones like a boss, sunken up to defend first push if it comes, early dual evo chambers +1 (melee)/+1 lurkerling push? about 24 lings and 6-9 lurkers? skip the spire until the push is underway for faster push think something like that is feasible? | ||
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btx0
Germany184 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] + The point is harrassing before stim is done. - 12 Pool - 11 Gas - 12 Hatch - Lair (no ling speed) - Spire when Lair is done - Fast second gas - Take drones off gas once you have 600 - Expand to third gas - Put drones in gas again - Expand to mineral only - Add enough mutas to keep terran in his base otherwise pump drones - Get lurker tech - 5th hatch - Only make a few lurkers to defend and/or: - Do this neat tactic where you burrow lurkers on the lowground outside terran's nat and harrass with muta/lurker - Transition into late game Not sure about a lot of things, but that's what I remember from the game. | ||
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The_Protagonist_
United States40 Posts
On certain maps where you can get 3 base and turtle easy or 2 base and get an island. works great on lost temple Open up standard siege FE. Get 2 facs and continue pumping tanks. get 3rd base as soon as possible safely. 3rd base has to have gas though. make 2-3 starports, start making BCs and when u hit 5-6 move out and pick off on expo and run back out. make sure ur not scouted and lose ur BC's. i like to upgrade yamato, and make sure you upgrade attack and armor. the people i used this against used corsairs and they barely scratch you. if they go mass goons abuse terrain and make more tanks. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
ZvT. Get burrow really early in the game. If Terran tries to do 1 rax FE, you can delay his expo with burrowed ling on that expo spot until he gets detection. If T tries to sunken break, you can burrow lings right around sunkens, so when his marines come into range to attack the sunkens, your lings will pop out and kill them. If he goes mech vulture harrass, instead of losing your drones, just burrow them. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On January 08 2010 08:54 AzureEye wrote: I have an idea. ZvT. Get burrow really early in the game. If Terran tries to do 1 rax FE, you can delay his expo with burrowed ling on that expo spot until he gets detection. If T tries to sunken break, you can burrow lings right around sunkens, so when his marines come into range to attack the sunkens, your lings will pop out and kill them. If he goes mech vulture harrass, instead of losing your drones, just burrow them. Hmm. Maybe do this on a 2player map, except get gas on 9, do a 9drone scout, and burrow the scouting drone to block the expansion? (Do something like 9gas, 9 overlord, scout, and hatch-before-pool if the opponent isn't rushing. Since the opponent's failed 1 rax expo will take too long to transition into aggression, the goal should be to take economic advantage early.) | ||
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RaptorX
Germany646 Posts
GOD | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
recall around a group of 12 siege tanks (thats max) seriously this is the strongest thing in the game, after nukes | ||
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
I'm not sure what opening would be optimal but maybe something like 12 pool 12 gas 12 expo 2 lings to chase scout, pump drones first 100 gas lair, second 100 gas ling speed den at 60% lair, lurker aspect at 100% once ling speed pops, stop drone production and pump lings next 100 gas after lurker aspect goes into queen's nest you might need to double gas. you won't be making a third hatchery anytime soon so you won't need that many minerals. hive when queen's nest finishes, defiler's mound when hive finishes maybe throw in a third hatch somewhere here if you have the money to spare contain him outside his nat, you have super early (even by 2 hatch standards) lurkers + lings so he shouldn't be able to do shit if he FE'd. he's pretty much stuck until he gets vessels, but you should have defilers out to dark swarm rape his nat before that. then it's 2 base vs 1 base with T contained at his ramp; you should burrow lurkers near the ramp so you rape all his scvs transferring back to the main. Maybe drone up/expand/get a spire for scourge at this point since you already have a huge advantage. Or you could try to break his ramp if the situation allows it. possible counters: fast spider mines could be annoying, but you could use suicide lings to detonate them or mine drag under dark swarm. mech - you'll probably get blown to hell by tanks fast starport and drops - would be a problem since you have no scourge... keep overlords around and a group of ~8 lings in main to intercept drops maybe... boxer nukes you - runnnn........ | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
-Build 1 drone. -When ready, take 2 drones and go to T main. -There, harass any worker who is building depot or rax. Delay him as much as you can. When you get 200 min, pool. -Don't build anything until pool is done -When done, you should have 100 min so ---> 4 lings and keep rushing. In BS your drones should be in main around 0:58 | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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exeexe
Denmark937 Posts
for more information: The idea is that the first wave can be hard to pull off but once you get to that point you can just steamroll your enemy. | ||
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TurboDreams
United States427 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On January 08 2010 13:00 exeexe wrote: try the 19zealotdrop for more information: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcZkDhK49Gg The idea is that the first wave can be hard to pull off but once you get to that point you can just steamroll your enemy. 9 shuttles= 18 zealots hm... i think i'd take the zealots. | ||
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Infested Terran
80 Posts
On January 06 2010 16:55 DoX.) wrote: This will prompt the toss to do the much feared computer toss 2 gate zealots This sounds pretty interesting actually, but Iif it is of any benefit. The main issue is that the terran assimilator has low hps and can be killed quick. In addition, in order to steal the gas quick, you need to sent the scv early - thus economy gets harmed. Im not sure if this stops the protoss cheese in any way; nor whether it forces him to zeal+expand. I see two approaches. 1) EXP! You steal the gas, wall and expand. Im not sure how long will your gas steal last (let's say you sacrifice your scouting scv to nearly complete it), because the building is weak. With a wall, the expansion CC could be made before tank, right? But this way you dont have a scouting SCV (it died) and 2 zealots block his base / come to you. Will your tank be enough to stop zeal+goon harass? If you both expand, do you get any edge? Are his reavers/dts really stopped in any way? 2) ATTACK! Some sort of a 2factory push - I wonder if stealing the gas limits the numbers of goons the protoss can produce. Are zealots really that easier to kill? | ||
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exeexe
Denmark937 Posts
On January 08 2010 13:35 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: 9 shuttles= 18 zealots hm... i think i'd take the zealots. Thats actually not the drawback, the drawback is that you need somewhere between 2-4 robofacilities. | ||
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lepape
Canada557 Posts
Shuttles could be necessary to hide them. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10495 Posts
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
Nal_rA style one-base +1 weapons rush. Go forge first in-base, assimilator, and then add gateways. Pull probes off gas after you hit 100. Probably shouldn't try this on a two-player map... PvP Hmm. Mid-game Dark Archons to feedback high templar and combo maelstrom/psionic storm on the zealots. Snipe shuttles with mind control if you want. Edit: Crap, someone beat me to this one. TvP TvZ-style offensive science vessel use to irradiate high templar. Alternatively, offensive optical flare to 'snipe' observers. TvZ Not sure which stupid idea to go with for this match-up.. Maybe mass offensive eraser. Irradiate four or five science vessels at a time, enough to make them untouchable by scourge, then hover over their rallies/army/drones/overlord clumps repeatedly for megadeth. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On January 08 2010 16:00 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote: PvZ Nal_rA style one-base +1 weapons rush. Go forge first in-base, assimilator, and then add gateways. Pull probes off gas after you hit 100. Probably shouldn't try this on a two-player map... This one is fun, and pretty easy to pull off, but it's not clear that you're gaining much over a Forge FE. Your +1 is faster, but you could just go gas/forge-->+1 (&appropriate cannon numbers for their ling timing) with your forge at your nat instead, and then you'd have a defended second expansion whenever you decide to put down the nexus. | ||
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m8
Germany32 Posts
+1 Attack Ling rush Get an early evo and research +1 Attack with the first 100 gas, then get speed, a second hatch and pump lings until the +1 is finished. Attack shortly before (2 hatch spire) or shortly after (1hatch) the opponent's mutas hatch. I had a decent amount of succes with it. Ironically this build seems to die to lings or i am doing it wrong. | ||
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RaptorX
Germany646 Posts
On January 08 2010 13:35 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: 9 shuttles= 18 zealots hm... i think i'd take the zealots. did you watch the whole video? the point was that sending 18 zealots in to the tanks makes you lose a lot of money because most of the zealots die. When he went with the shuttle he saved tons of money, he had virtually no losses compared with sending them straight to the tanks specially because of the mines. Interesting concept but I dont think is practically possible because by the time you have so many shuttles terran already overran you. | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
Put a Pylon down at your natural except follow it with a Gateway + Zealot instead of a Forge + Cannon. Keep building Zealots and harass with them. When the Zerg deflects it and goes for a counter build a Shield Battery next to your Gateway and block your remaining choke with Zealots. Then expand and play normally or put up your Nexus while you harass with the initial Zealots if you think you can get away with it. If this is completely un-viable just find someway to effectively use the Shield Battery (maybe a rush with a proxy Shield Battery?). Thank you for your time Have a nice day. | ||
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yoden
United States64 Posts
On January 12 2010 02:38 Deviation wrote: PvZ Shield Battery FE Put a Pylon down at your natural except follow it with a Gateway + Zealot instead of a Forge + Cannon. Keep building Zealots and harass with them. When the Zerg deflects it and goes for a counter build a Shield Battery next to your Gateway and block your remaining choke with Zealots. Then expand and play normally or put up your Nexus while you harass with the initial Zealots if you think you can get away with it. If this is completely un-viable just find someway to effectively use the Shield Battery (maybe a rush with a proxy Shield Battery?). Thank you for your time Have a nice day. Check out Movie vs Firefist this VOD. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Everyone knows M&M is generally in TvZ backed up by tanks and vessels. How viable would it be to swap the tanks for the more mobile Wraiths? I'm only thinking of this idea due to the way the Nighthawk and Banshee work in Staracraft 2. Think it's worth giving it a try? It allows you to leave your push momentarily to do some damange to his drones and come back. Also if he goes for Lurker ling and has no air atall. You can kill the lurkers before they have a chance to get near your army. | ||
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wut_wut3
United States221 Posts
4-5pool but make 1-2 drones afterwards @100%pool 6lings hide in somewhere in the map build drones and make your build look like a 9pool make 4 lings and wait for him to move out with his lings which he will probably do because you only have 4 make a sunken use 1st 6lings to attack his drones or pool tech to lair and make your 2nd hatch | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
On January 12 2010 03:31 yoden wrote: Check out Movie vs Firefist this VOD. I am now a Movie fan. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 12 2010 07:59 randomKo_Orean wrote: I think you are on the wrong topic, but I can still give you some answer. Wraiths gets eaten up by hydralisks and scourges, which are infinitely cheaper than wraith, while tanks are more efficient at killing, nearly everything and doesn't die as easily. Not only that, 1) wraith micro is harder and 2) they cost the same. Most people would sacrifice the mobility for easier micro/fuckton more damage (Tanks), and hence you'll rarely see wraith with your MM force. Wraith does too little damage output for justifiably go against a lurker/ling allin army. I meant you should try out out. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) Open siege expand, lay down a second fact with shop, pump tanks. rush science vessels and emp. while building sci facility get a dropship. throughout this time just keep making tanks. make two science vessels when you can. with the first, use an alternate pathing to get the tanks to an elevatorish position to get into the protoss main. maybe use a vulture or something to distract the dragoons and try to lead them away from his base. elevator tanks into protoss main, emp the nexus, and try to snipe it. with 2nd science vessel try to do the same thing to protoss natural. follow up by macroing up to 4/5fact and push for a third to take a huge economic advantage. this probably won't work on a map like python, but i imagine it could be used on desti or hbr. maybe even moonglaive. | ||
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yoden
United States64 Posts
On January 12 2010 12:23 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: Crazy thought i had today: vs Open siege expand, lay down a second fact with shop, pump tanks. rush science vessels and emp. while building sci facility get a dropship. throughout this time just keep making tanks. make two science vessels when you can. with the first, use an alternate pathing to get the tanks to an elevatorish position to get into the protoss main. maybe use a vulture or something to distract the dragoons and try to lead them away from his base. elevator tanks into protoss main, emp the nexus, and try to snipe it. with 2nd science vessel try to do the same thing to protoss natural. follow up by macroing up to 4/5fact and push for a third to take a huge economic advantage. this probably won't work on a map like python, but i imagine it could be used on desti or hbr. maybe even moonglaive. As a protoss player, I hate you :X This looks great; if you don't stop the vessel/drop it seems reaaaly hard to deal with. I think it would be easy for the P to lose one nex or the other. OTOH, it's still gonna take 6-7 shots from both tanks to take down a nexus, which seems like a lot when I'm not in game trying to defend it. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On January 12 2010 12:23 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: Crazy thought i had today: vs Open siege expand, lay down a second fact with shop, pump tanks. rush science vessels and emp. while building sci facility get a dropship. throughout this time just keep making tanks. make two science vessels when you can. with the first, use an alternate pathing to get the tanks to an elevatorish position to get into the protoss main. maybe use a vulture or something to distract the dragoons and try to lead them away from his base. elevator tanks into protoss main, emp the nexus, and try to snipe it. with 2nd science vessel try to do the same thing to protoss natural. follow up by macroing up to 4/5fact and push for a third to take a huge economic advantage. this probably won't work on a map like python, but i imagine it could be used on desti or hbr. maybe even moonglaive. ok, thinking this build out a bit more, and realized that you could die to a speedlot all-in very easily. so don't. wall off the nat or something. and since you'll have a lot of excess mins, use them for an ebay and turret around to stop the observers, dts, and reavers. you dont need those vultures anyways. since you'll have such a late armory/upgrades (due to gas being used for tanks/tech), you won't be able to push out after your third. so if it fails, then even if you take your third you could still lose easily. you should probably send tanks to the loading areas for both the main and the nat, if you may have the tanks to spare. a friend suggested firebats instead of emp, claiming that stim+2bats can take out the shields pronto. i'll test this later, and will try to formulate a fb/tank drop rush. | ||
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goswser
United States3519 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
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GuYuTe-
United States550 Posts
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GuYuTe-
United States550 Posts
When doing this build it's really important to deny scouting, and I actually prefer to do 2 hatch in base. | ||
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Return
Ivory Coast856 Posts
1hat lurkers with queen support^_^ Ensnare the marines and medics trying to micro their way out of your lurker rush~ EDIT: To clarify, this is a ZvT build^^ | ||
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julealgon
Brazil120 Posts
I've watched a lot of those replays and they were awesome! I would like to propose a strategy for you to try in TvP. (I saw your 2-port wraith m&m vP and the ghost lockdown one btw). I will list general things I would love to see assuming you could employ them much better than I would be able to. ------------------------ Extended Bio TvP: + Show Spoiler + - Open up UpMagic style, barracks then ebay and academy as fast as possible, going +1 armor and marine range + bunker to block initial dragoon/zealot attacks, expanding before factory this way. - Alternatively to upgrading range to defend, get flare first and use it from 2 barrack's medics on as many initial goons as possible (preferably at all of them). I think this is possible (timing wise) but I'm not 100% sure. The academy needs to start as soon as the barracks finish. (I would personally like seeing this opening as it's much cooler XD). - Make just one factory and all tanks just from this one. Have a max of 3 tanks with your m&m at all times, no more than that, defending them with defense matrix when needed, and focus instead on teching quickly to ghosts and lockdown to stop important targets, like shuttles/reavers, carriers, arbiters, and if none of those are present, use it on goons. When teching, make sure to have two ebays constantly upgrading (time the second one to finish as soon as the science facility finishes), and prioritize armor if a choice has to be made. - Do not research EMP and use all the vessels' energy to dmatrix targets being attacked during battle. Protecting tanks and ghosts is a must here, and targeting the ones being focus fired on is preferable. Get all dropships and vessels from a single starport also (meaning there wont be many of them most of the time, yes). - As soon as you have 3 tanks with your army, starting making only vultures (only making tanks to replenish the dead ones). Upgrade only mines for the vultures and use them (mines) as a scouting tool for preemptively countering drops and recalls. Do not use them offensively at all (this hurts m&m quite a lot anyways). - Use bunkers extensively to counter templar abuse during attacks and inside bases, and make various firebats with the marines to counter mass zealots near the tanks and to take out shields faster (maybe you realized yourself how effective they were in that wraith game). This is very important to counter what happened in some of your attacks in the wraith m&m replay for example. When attacking, order some nearby SCVs to build 1-2 bunkers and a turret to stabilish a position, sieging the tanks alongside and holding a ghost or 2 in that position. Position the tanks in a way that they are always somewhat protected by firebats either from a bunker or on the ground. Bring the SCVs in the medics group maybe? - Drop m&m with a SCV and a pre-cloaked ghost on expansions (this could be done on more than 1 base simultaneously, although it would require quite a bit of micro). Use the scv as soon as it lands to build a bunker on a difficult to reach location, stim, and nuke the entrance of the base to stall units coming to defend as soon as you suspect them. Most likely, the opponent will not suspect the location of the nuke and you will end up killing everything and the expansion itself. (you could try the firebat drop here and blend the two projects). When doing this, scan and flare any nearby observers. Alternatively, use a vessel alongside 2 dropships and bring a tank, more ghosts for lockdown and maybe 1 more scv for a fast turret with the bunker, or 2 tanks, building a small but mixed and efficient task force. Use this same approach to instantly block an important but unpopulated choke point on the map. - Mid to late game, whenever only medics are left (happens a lot after a lost battle), and there is no way to save them, waste all their energy flaring every unit near them, or when you see an open opportunity use the flare ability (like on nearby observers/shuttles/arbs, since making them unusable is better than actually killing them because of the supply cap). ------------------------- This is what I would personally love to see as a dream strategy, and should make a very cool game both to watch and play, even if some aspects are missing. It is somewhat of a mix of some already played strategies and some new approaches, and I'm sure you could make it work from what I saw you playing. Any comments and suggestions from anyone will be very appreciated. Kudos for granting us this incredible chance of seeing unused strategies being employed by a good player! Juliano | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On January 13 2010 01:06 GuYuTe- wrote: ZvP 2 hatch hydra. Pressure with fast hydras. upgrade both hatcheries to lair and research both drop upgrades for super fast hydra drop in main. When doing this build it's really important to deny scouting, and I actually prefer to do 2 hatch in base. Can you afford the gas for all those upgrades without taking both geysers? | ||
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KwarK
United States42649 Posts
On January 12 2010 03:53 wut_wut3 wrote: zvz hidden 4-5pool 4-5pool but make 1-2 drones afterwards @100%pool 6lings hide in somewhere in the map build drones and make your build look like a 9pool make 4 lings and wait for him to move out with his lings which he will probably do because you only have 4 make a sunken use 1st 6lings to attack his drones or pool tech to lair and make your 2nd hatch To make your build look like 9 pool you'd need as many drones as a 9 pool has. That means you'd have the same number of larva left to spend on zerglings as a 9 pool does. Going 5 pool doesn't give you any extra larva to spend. You're not getting more zerglings than you would otherwise. You're just getting them earlier. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On January 14 2010 05:47 KwarK wrote: To make your build look like 9 pool you'd need as many drones as a 9 pool has. That means you'd have the same number of larva left to spend on zerglings as a 9 pool does. Going 5 pool doesn't give you any extra larva to spend. You're not getting more zerglings than you would otherwise. You're just getting them earlier. Doesn't 5pool give you fewer larva than 9pool? I was under the impression it burned some. Anyway, you can do this sort of hide-the-lings backstab trick with a 9pool or overpool; I believe Calm did during his MSL run. | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1240 Posts
 Brave! And that you were going to try these projects in proleague!?Project 7: Spoiler if you haven't watched Khan vs Ace, be warned: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Letters_and_Numbers
Canada28 Posts
Maybe start with forge fast expand, getting only cannons for defense (pretty much turtling) until you have a few reavers and a couple scouts. Hopefully, shield batteries along with some of the strongest attacks in the game will keep unit losses to a minimum. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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GuYuTe-
United States550 Posts
On January 14 2010 05:34 Severedevil wrote: Can you afford the gas for all those upgrades without taking both geysers? Now that you mention it you're probably right, it would prob be better to just expo and do this. I just remember doing it as a super cheese when I played mainly 2v2s. I remember it always working best if you could drone whore as much as possible off 2 hatch in base first, with an early gas. You upgrade one lair and when it's like halfway done you upgrade other hatch to lair and in the first lair you get drop grades and second you get speed and I had it timed to where they finish at almost identical times, and if you can have like 9 dras pressuring/nipping at FE and then all of a sudden you're dropping in their main. I'm sure a good FE toss would crush it, but hey, it's fun The no 9th probe is a strong rush strat though. I actually stole that from some old school Tillerman build order, and to my astonishment it's significantly faster and puts more pressure than a 10/12 gate...or even 9/11 gate. Try it on a 2 player map against Z some time. The z will shit his pants when you have 3 lots on his nat RIGHT when or even before his hatch pops. It's a really good Bloodbath build too And if you're feeling totally balls-to-the-wallish you can pull all but 4 probes for a game ending rush against a zerg who doesn't have excellent micro. | ||
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iMarshall
Norway190 Posts
On December 24 2009 02:26 randomKo_Orean wrote: Project 23: TvP + Show Spoiler + First Impression: Wait what? Firebat drop? Really? Results pending I didn't read through all the posts to see if someone commented this already, but what I've tried a couple of times at D/D+ level is bringing a fast dropship with 6 firebats and 2 medics, and sometimes even 2 dropships if he has expanded (one for each nexus). The nexus' shields just melt to the firebats, and it doesn't take too long to bring it down afterward either. With a little luck and good execution you should be able to bring down (both) his nexuses in a matter of seconds, and then you can go for the probes who also die SO quickly, btw. Please try! P.S. Stim is very important. | ||
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old times sake
165 Posts
On January 14 2010 18:35 iMarshall wrote: I didn't read through all the posts to see if someone commented this already, but what I've tried a couple of times at D/D+ level is bringing a fast dropship with 6 firebats and 2 medics, and sometimes even 2 dropships if he has expanded (one for each nexus). The nexus' shields just melt to the firebats, and it doesn't take too long to bring it down afterward either. With a little luck and good execution you should be able to bring down (both) his nexuses in a matter of seconds, and then you can go for the probes who also die SO quickly, btw. Please try! P.S. Stim is very important. i did a race to see which mix of bats/marines (out of 6 units) was fastest: 1st place: 2 marines 4 bats (2nd test this got 2nd place) 2nd place: 1 marine 5 bats 3rd place: 3 marines 3 bats (2nd test this got 1st place) note that all three of the above happened almost simultaneously, so really they are all about equal and it just depends on whether you want bats or marines in their base. 4th place: 6 bats 5th place: 4 marines 2 bats (still pretty close to 6 bats speed, less than 20 hp difference on the nexus) *note that 5 bats + 1 scv or 4 bats + 2 scvs also is damn near the same as these, insignificantly behind 6th place: 5 marines 1 bat (3 more volleys behind 5th) 7th place: 6 marines (2 more volleys behind 6th) So IMO you can just do 4 marines 2 bats if that's easier for you, or 3 marines 3 bats. This is assuming you want to always have 2 medics in the dropship anyways. Bottom line you don't need to do 6 bats. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
Keep it up! | ||
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airtown
United States410 Posts
10 hatch speedling rush | ||
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GeMicles
Canada307 Posts
PvP - the uber manner pylon - manner pylon the shit out of the toss main base and harass then with your first zealots. and by manner pylonig the shit out of their base, i mean investing about 2000 minerals worth of pylons in the mineral line of your opponent. pisses them off and this can stop them from mining for a while. And here is a strategy my korean friend used against me: he researched burrow before ling speed for a ZvP and send his first 12 lings into my base. after my zealots (i didn't for Forge FE because i was trying to stove him) started chasing the lings, he split them into 2 groups and burrowed 1 while the other group kept having surprise buttsecks with my probe line. after i had my zealots change target to the lings completely raping my mineral lines, he burrowed those and unburrowed the other group of lings, which had a gangbang around my pylon powering both my gate and my core. he continued to do this under a shitload of lurkers came into my base where i only had an unpowered forge, gate, and a cyber core. These are just a few crazy strategies i've tried and have had people use against me. | ||
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yoden
United States64 Posts
On January 18 2010 03:54 GeMicles wrote: And here is a strategy my korean friend used against me: he researched burrow before ling speed for a ZvP and send his first 12 lings into my base. after my zealots (i didn't for Forge FE because i was trying to stove him) started chasing the lings, he split them into 2 groups and burrowed 1 while the other group kept having surprise buttsecks with my probe line. after i had my zealots change target to the lings completely raping my mineral lines, he burrowed those and unburrowed the other group of lings, which had a gangbang around my pylon powering both my gate and my core. he continued to do this under a shitload of lurkers came into my base where i only had an unpowered forge, gate, and a cyber core. These are just a few crazy strategies i've tried and have had people use against me. There's a VOD of someone (Boxer offracing?) doing this on LT... but I can't find it. | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
Go for a Mutalisk intensive build as we sometimes see in pro-games where the Zerg pretty much goes all-in Mutalisks. The difference is that you're going to sacrifice a couple of Mutalisks to get a Queen + Ensnare. Now focus on picking off the Terrans M&M ball with Mutalisks + Ensnare. Put any excess minerals into lings to aid your Muta+Queen combo. If you take the advantage and force the Terran to abandon his natural go for an Infested CC before he can float it to safety. I see this as being played extremely aggressively but not necessarily all-in (unless you want to). | ||
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Jlab
United States217 Posts
HOWEVER - This is more of a tactic and not a strategy. Just a little something to help advantage, but not to base a game around.. | ||
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TeH_Mentalist
Korea (South)244 Posts
On January 18 2010 07:16 Jlab wrote: Actually 4 or 5 firebats can tear apart an opponents miners. HOWEVER - This is more of a tactic and not a strategy. Just a little something to help advantage, but not to base a game around.. Thats what happened in one of my very first PvT games. I tried to fight the firebats with my probes and lost them all. THEN the observers laughed at me for being a noob but I didn't know any better | ||
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Loffeman
Sweden105 Posts
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jakel
36 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
I guess this is a variation of the 5 hatch hydra build. I made it up at WGF to beat Xeris_Cheese. So you start off getting 3 hatcheries and a lair. Instead of making a spire after lair is done, get a 4th hatch before lair is done and then get a 5th hatch soon after lair is done. Add a hydra den then a spire after your 5th hatch. By getting the hatcheries faster, you'll be able to get a better economy. Because you have so much larva, you could use a few on hydras which will protect your overlords from corsair. You'll also be able to do a muta switch later in the game. I'm wondering if it's better than the standard 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build. This build perfectly counter's Cheese's pvz build. I could get enough hydras to stop early zealot pressure. Afterward I could mass up hydras and break his natural because he doesn't have enough gas to get storm fast enough. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Loffeman
Sweden105 Posts
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KwarK
United States42649 Posts
On January 18 2010 12:29 jakel wrote: how do you watch these replays? Download the rep files and move them to C: Program Files/Starcraft/Maps/Replays/ the replay you downloaded Then just run bw and it'll appear in your maps folder (subfolder replays). | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
I don't think it works on 2 players maps because the OL will get there pretty early, but on a map like outsider where the OL might need to travel to twice the distance due to missing you the first time or a 4 player map, I can see it working. Still situational, but if you get it to work that'd be sexy. | ||
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dyren
United States260 Posts
I personally want to see a PvZ with mass archon. FE into fast high templars, turtle on 3 bases defending with your storms and morphing archons. Push out with 12 archons .. or something. (or some variation) | ||
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Yogurt
United States4258 Posts
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tYsopz
Norway215 Posts
Can imagine it will be hard to pull off against someone off equal skill. I'm not sure on the observer vs wraith timing on this one. If observers are done much earlier than scan, this might be impossible to pull off against a competent opponent. | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
Go for quick Scouts off of one or two bases. Build Shield Batteries in a proxy location near your opponents base. Continually harass with your Scouts, whenever they run out of shields fall back to your Batteries and recharge. Assuming you're playing against a Terran opponent he will be forced to invest in Turrets and/or Goliaths. Take this opportunity to expand. If you're hating on Scouts try this same type of strategy with 2-3 base Carriers instead. I think the important thing is having the optimal number of Shield Batteries to be able to provide a steady supply of Shields to your Scouts/Carriers. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
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julealgon
Brazil120 Posts
And as I said earlier, I would love to hear anyone's opinion on it too. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Sanku
Canada90 Posts
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exeexe
Denmark937 Posts
you never build arbiters - is gonna save you stargate(s), arbitor tribunal, stasis tech, recall tech, and eventually arbiters Instead heres what you gonna do. You build dark archons and mindcontrol their arbiters once they arrive on the battlefield. One thing to note. Dont mindcontrol if there are a lot of goons beneath it. Wait till its going for a recall or something so its not protected by Anti air. Remember dont create dark archons when you see the first arbiter. Have them before time cause you need 150 in energy. | ||
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selboN
United States2523 Posts
On January 23 2010 03:34 exeexe wrote: pvp you never build arbiters - is gonna save you stargate(s), arbitor tribunal, stasis tech, recall tech, and eventually arbiters Instead heres what you gonna do. You build dark archons and mindcontrol their arbiters once they arrive on the battlefield. One thing to note. Dont mindcontrol if there are a lot of goons beneath it. Wait till its going for a recall or something so its not protected by Anti air. Remember dont create dark archons when you see the first arbiter. Have them before time cause you need 150 in energy. So basically go mind control late game in PvP? Yeah... not exciting, at all. | ||
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DaBears57
United States300 Posts
Open standard with 1 Gate Core, with 1 zealot before core. Manner pylon -> shield battery (with the shield battery most likely behind his mineral line), rally 1st zeal to his main. I think if he doesn't go zeal before core, you will be able to inflict quite a bit of damage with the zealot + shield battery backup. | ||
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feuxfollets
United States61 Posts
Instead of going for Ultra/Ling/Defiler vs Bio, go for Hydra/Ling/Defiler. The idea is to use Plague to turn T's units into 1hp stuff that then get raped by a Hydra ball. Hydras are not very gas intensive and since you're not making Lurkers, Ultras, or Scourge, you should be able to get a lot more Defilers than usual. Since you have a ton of hydras roaming around, T cannot snipe your Defilers with Vessels as easily. This should allow you to pull off much more Plagues than normal. Open standard 2 or 3 hatch muta into lurkers but get +1 missile attack instead of +1 melee attack. Once hive finishes, get a Defiler Mound (possibly two depending on timing) and research Consume + Plague. Use the standard Defilers, Lurkers, and Lings to hold of the T push while securing a fourth. At this point, upgrade Hydralisk Range + Speed and stop morphing lurkers. Once Plague finishes, use Plague on the T ball and a-move it with Hydralisks to kill it. Make sure to protect your Defilers from getting sniped by Vessels, which shouldn't be too hard with all your Hydras roaming around. When T starts building a vessel cloud, you could consider researching drop tech to hide Defilers in Overlords. Hydras should kill Plagued M&M with ease and T typically only has 3-4 Tanks with his first push which shouldn't really cause problems. | ||
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RodrigoX
United States645 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
TvP on 2 player map ~ Send out your 5th or 6th scv, and build a 7 or 8rax as close as possible to their base but so they cannot scout it. Follow up with another SCV (8th) and steal their gas with this one. Get a supply depot when you can. Plop a bunker in range of their gateway and start pumping marines. When the bunker goes down build only 4 marines and then get your own refinery. Then transition into 2fact tank/vult contain if you haven't killed them already. Another idea would be (PvP 2 Player Map) ~ Since most protosses place their first pylon near their nexus, send out a 5 or 6 probe and place 2 or 3 strategic pylons that would prevent any gateway from going up within the pylon's range. Follow up with your own proxy gateways and manner pylons, etc. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
Another idea would be (PvP 2 Player Map) ~ Since most protosses place their first pylon near their nexus, send out a 5 or 6 probe and place 2 or 3 strategic pylons that would prevent any gateway from going up within the pylon's range. Follow up with your own proxy gateways and manner pylons, etc. I can't see this working well at all. You will have to use a lot of money to block all possible gateway locations when he can just build 1 more pylon in comparison to your numerous ones you made. Since you are sending out such an early probe his eco will be way better and he should have no trouble defending. If anything, go manner pylons > proxy gates like bisu vs pokju | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
On January 25 2010 15:29 Grobyc wrote: That's true, but its success can be pretty situational. an example was where this one protoss spawned at the 12 oclock on Python and he put his first pylon between his gas and nexus. Two pylons would definitely have blocked all possible locations, and in the delay between him dropping another pylon it means his gateway would still be slower than my proxy.I can't see this working well at all. You will have to use a lot of money to block all possible gateway locations when he can just build 1 more pylon in comparison to your numerous ones you made. Since you are sending out such an early probe his eco will be way better and he should have no trouble defending. If anything, go manner pylons > proxy gates like bisu vs pokju Does seem kinda silly though. | ||
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
Many thanks~ | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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m8
Germany32 Posts
On January 08 2010 19:24 m8 wrote: ZvZ +1 Attack Ling rush Get an early evo and research +1 Attack with the first 100 gas, then get speed, a second hatch and pump lings until the +1 is finished. Attack shortly before (2 hatch spire) or shortly after (1hatch) the opponent's mutas hatch. I had a decent amount of succes with it. Ironically this build seems to die to lings or i am doing it wrong. Try this one plz. | ||
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KwarK
United States42649 Posts
On January 25 2010 15:29 Grobyc wrote: I can't see this working well at all. You will have to use a lot of money to block all possible gateway locations when he can just build 1 more pylon in comparison to your numerous ones you made. Since you are sending out such an early probe his eco will be way better and he should have no trouble defending. If anything, go manner pylons > proxy gates like bisu vs pokju They just FE lol. | ||
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Pavo
Poland71 Posts
Go 1 gate tech to corsair without speedlots -> make cannon on the other side of his clif and than: 1) expand after templar archives or 2) do the dt and mine minerals to enter his main Worked on D+ two seasons ago, here's the replay: http://netwars.pl/download.php?numer=136016 | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Alchemyst
United States36 Posts
So open up with a wall in with depot and a rax, and go early gas. Then get a factory and shop. Also get an academy and flare as soon as money allows, instead of 2 fact. Set mines at places, blinding them. Hopefully blind mines can take out clusters of tanks. Expo soon and start transitioning into Mech. I don't play T, so I'm not too sure on the timings. But I want to see blinded mines. :D | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17254 Posts
1 base 2 gate zealots -> natural stomp. Gotta punish this greedy zergs nowadays, especially that they're using only ovies to scout, the bigger distance from bases, the greater chance for success (more time needed for zerg to scout you out). Edit: I can see it's already pending (as PvP though). New idea then: TvP: No wall (yes, you heared me right), bio build -> dropship play (tanks or vults, your choice) out of 1-2 facts and 1 port. Need around 3-4 raxes. Possible to do with just 1 base (if you apply right amount of pressure with your bio units, your dropship should arrive at his base shortly before reaver/ht is completed). Hard to pull off but the effects are priceless. | ||
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Ya Jae Moon
United States31 Posts
Wraith build where you keep up a fleet of wraiths throughout the game in order to pick off high templar, like ZvP. Push after the snipe. | ||
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jakel
36 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
FBH used battlecruisers tvz FBh has done pure vultures TvP 4pool zvz has been done numerous times(Kwanro vs Calm is the first one that comes to mind). It's just ridiculous you wouldn't do my suggestion but would do those. It makes no sense. Also, my build was different from Zero's. What's with this | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
PvZ: - Get a sneaky third, preferably near the enemy base, but it shouldn't be the Zerg's 3rd or 4th and it should be away from the muta path. - tech as usual, get sairs, storms, hold bridges -- make sure that you are contained by hydralisks and he is pumping hydras. - mass gateways at third, around 4~5 will do. - get +1 attack and speed. - grab 10 or more zealots from your third (but still continue creating them), run through his base, destroy den, pool, spire, evo chamber in any way you want, the evo is optional. - Break contain at your nat, push push push. This will be a bit hard since you had majority of your gatewats in your third, but his units are pulling back to clean you up, he'll be stupid to attack you. - If you're lucky you can actually contain him, but if you were not, just flank his army and rape it. - grab idle zealots at thrid to rape any expansion. Well you've won after you raped his tech so anything really goes after. Just note that this build usually worked (at least for me) when the zerg goes muta then hydra, because I know that he won't be having any lurkers out soon and there's a chance that I can still have +2 attack before I raid his base. This build is shit if your third gets spotted (which happened to me) since I personally didn't get cannons to save up on minerals. It's a fun build, especially when the zerg gets complacent in his situation that he forgets to scout and just mass hydras that are rallied to your base. | ||
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
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lol.Froste
United States112 Posts
open with a bisu FE into DT + sairs then get fast shuttle with speed and a dark archon + mind control go steal a drone and make a hatchery, spawning pool and make however many drones fit in a shuttle now go drop all your drones inside his base and start building sunkens everywhere!!! the key is to harass him as much as possible in the early game with your DTs & sairs maelstrom can also be utilized after the initial drone is jacked gl and hf! i hope you try this xD | ||
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Impervious
Canada4199 Posts
Get a control group of Valkyries, with ups, and then start adding in tanks, since a dozen Valkyries is more than enough to get the job done at that point. Keeping them alive against scourge will be difficult though. Crazy amounts of micro needed (think of muta micro, except you need to macro like a motherfucker, plus plant mines all over the place). But, if you do it, I have a feeling it would be very powerful. | ||
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Impervious
Canada4199 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
and good luck with your family emergency wish you and your family the best. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
On January 28 2010 06:27 lol.Froste wrote: this is a PvZ rofl build: the PvZ reverse sunken push open with a bisu FE into DT + sairs then get fast shuttle with speed and a dark archon + mind control go steal a drone and make a hatchery, spawning pool and make however many drones fit in a shuttle now go drop all your drones inside his base and start building sunkens everywhere!!! the key is to harass him as much as possible in the early game with your DTs & sairs maelstrom can also be utilized after the initial drone is jacked gl and hf! i hope you try this xD omg next time i go on east, i am fuckin doin this to some noobs ROFLLLLL you sir are a GENIUS | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 30 2010 04:30 Sky.Technique wrote: omg next time i go on east, i am fuckin doin this to some noobs ROFLLLLL you sir are a GENIUS then you'll run into me most likely and then you'll get pawned as I know the exact counter to this. 3 hatch muta ;D edit: u ok random_kor_ean?(sorry if spelt wrong its my first time I tried spelling it from memory) | ||
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
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Hiicantpk
Canada72 Posts
I may be crazy, but proxy reavers. Standard 2gate opening, stick a pylon near their nat/main with 2-3 robos on it, and reaver it up | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 30 2010 05:17 Sky.Technique wrote: whats ur east aka 3FFA. i use this acc on east Tribal Trouble. I got a bad record of like 2-8 or something but it is the account I try cheeses and only cheeses. Recently its the only one I've been using. | ||
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
or i just do the 1v1 play/obs ums maps, i win some, but most of them are vs like peeople with 150 apm or lower. im protoss usually and i got like 185 apm | ||
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oskuboi
Finland72 Posts
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FezTheCaliph
United States492 Posts
TvZ: Wraith to chase out ovies then nukes. thats right. nukes. possibly no comsat,but if you are teching up to ghost/wraiths an sv shouldnt be too hard to come by. Obvious problems would be timing as it takes awhile to get up, and if its scouted spores will go up. Maybe more of a mid-late game push. Wait till you have ghosts/cloak and a nuke before you start chasing ovies out. Sorry for giving you your worst matchup again. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 30 2010 22:51 Sky.Technique wrote: oh. on east all i do is stomp some noobs on bgh with a friend of mine whose C+ (its so much fun :D) or i just do the 1v1 play/obs ums maps, i win some, but most of them are vs like peeople with 150 apm or lower. im protoss usually and i got like 185 apm lol @ bgh comment u noob(jk). As for the 1v1 play/obs I do that all the time to create hilarious games for people to watch or watch to noobs(or a noob and a C+ player) pawn/ humiliate each other(or themselves lol). I last observed a game where it was 3 ffa game and 1 player did 4scv rush with a CC lift on python. He kept saying: "WHY CAN'T I LAND?!? WHY CAN'T I LAND?!? YOU HACKERS! LAND CC LAND O GOD PLZ LAND!" b.net is a great place to go to get a couple lols. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 31 2010 05:30 randomKo_Orean wrote: Stop shitting up the thread. On another note, I'm going to finish these projects after I finish up HG tournament. what do you mean "shitting up the thread"? I'm just relating with a fellow user. | ||
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
do you want the replay? lol | ||
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julealgon
Brazil120 Posts
On March 31 2010 05:30 randomKo_Orean wrote: On another note, I'm going to finish these projects after I finish up HG tournament. I'm personally very excited to see these projects finished. I was anxious to see you update this thread, and it finally happened. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 31 2010 08:29 Sky.Technique wrote: hey 3ffa i did the sunken up. although it was more of i had game won already 3base vs one cuz i did 4gate 2 archon timing attack and he was really bad do you want the replay? lol yep. I want to see if I can pawn u with pure macro or not and to see what our different versions of 4gate 2 archon is. edit: but just pm it. | ||
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
gate gas core nat gas, stargate citadel templar archives+3gateways +1 attack 4ht speed upgrade attack around 8:30 i must emphasize on how u will NOT be able to beat me by macro alone (ur toss right?) my weakness is if someone does a harass strategy or makes me micro excessively such as a 2gate or somethin, i crumble under that :/ | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
When lair finishes do a double spire for a double upgrade. For shits and giggles put one spire at your main and one at your nat so when he does his scans hell be confused lol. Be conservative with your first group of mutas and just contain while waiting for the next control group to hatch. When 1-1 finishes either go all in to his main w two control groups of mutas, or send one control group into his main to try and force him to send the rines at his nat up to his main if he does this then run with a group of speedlings and the other control group of mutas into his main for a double attack. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Waffles
Romania605 Posts
both tvz and tvp (bar z if z has mutas which he will unless 2 hat lurk) | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
Basically the strategy would be to use Dark Archons against Zerg mid-late game to counter cracklings and to maybe defend 3rd/4th base with lurkers. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=117974 | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
4hatch before pool/4CC before rax/4 Nexus before gate | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
On December 24 2009 03:00 ryuu_ wrote: mass broodling vs mech xD omg yes! Queen/hydra maybe? | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On March 31 2010 16:30 randomKo_Orean wrote: That's not what this thread is about, is it? -_- I'm just not gonna argue since I like this thread and don't want to have it ending up closed because someone wants the thread to happen their way and theirs alone. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
You could include some corsairs to dweb spores as well. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 02 2010 10:24 Frigo wrote: I just watched your 2gate scout vs zerg replay and I noticed you had shitloads of gas. Could you repeat the experiment this time with making templars instead of loads of useless cannons? You could include some corsairs to dweb spores as well. lol @ loads of useless cannons. I agree. | ||
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Chunkybuddha
Canada347 Posts
This would be cool to see. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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olabaz
United States298 Posts
Send like 3 scouting probes to kill drones quickly? | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 04 2010 12:40 olabaz wrote: PvZ Send like 3 scouting probes to kill drones quickly? that sounds like it would need at least 4 drone kills to be an effective trade off and if the opponent 9 pools/overpools then u might end up kinda screwed if he gets 6 lings right away since 2lings<1 probe. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
I'm pretty sure it's not viable against a good terran, but it might be fun anyway. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
On April 09 2010 17:53 Frigo wrote: Zeal/Archon vs Terran into Arbiters and Archon recalls (the latter not triggering any mines) I'm pretty sure it's not viable against a good terran, but it might be fun anyway. There's no point in this since all your units die to Vultures. A legitimate PvT unit composition must include at least one of Dragoons, Reavers, and Carriers, because they're the only units which can handle vultures. Now, if you did some kind of no-dragoon-range Reaver opening --> Zeal/Archon/Reaver shuttle-heavy play into arbiters, that would be kind of interesting. | ||
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mesobored123
United States62 Posts
2 shop mine and vulture speed upgrade then only make vultures and scv till the upgrades are finished when they are done harass the zerg's drones and make an armory then get your nat and make goliaths (for muta harass) and get the range upgrade (if you have the gas) than transition into standard tvz mech this build will probably work best vs 3 hatch and fail vs 2 hatch mutas kind of like this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2_Fact_Vults_(vs._Terran) | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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MassAirUnits
United States66 Posts
Fast drop with slow OL: tech to Lair asap and get the transport upgrade before the speed upgrade, then drop stuff over cliffs or walls =] The first one would be super awesome if you even humor it, even more awesome if it somehow works for you. The second one I would sometimes pair with Lurkers and flip onto someone who's never played me in SC before, and we'd all get a good laugh at how ridiculous it is. Edit: Added Dropships to the list of valid support units for the 1st request, otherwise island maps and anything involving cliffs would ruin it. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 10 2010 07:09 MassAirUnits wrote: Siege Tanks and Valkyries as the main force; can be supported with Comsat Station, Sci Vessels, Missile Turrets or SCVs =] OR? So I have to choose?!? Then I choose missile turrets hands down. | ||
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MassAirUnits
United States66 Posts
Basically I'm curious about how self sufficient tanks and valks can be as main combat units, but I'm adding some exceptions for detection and repairs. Which reminds me, I'm adding Dropships to the list of valid support units. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 10 2010 07:38 MassAirUnits wrote: Oh, I don't mean that you can only choose one of those four choices to be part of the composition, just that tanks and valks should be the main portion of the army. But any other units I didn't mention shouldn't be used if possible (Marines I'll probably have to make an exception for otherwise you'd be pretty screwed early on). Basically I'm curious about how self sufficient tanks and valks can be as main combat units, but I'm adding some exceptions for detection and repairs. Which reminds me, I'm adding Dropships to the list of valid support units. good boy! Thanks for allowing marines and drops I was about to point that out =D. | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
On March 31 2010 21:31 goldenkrnboi wrote: i know i've seen this in a thread before, but i can't find it atm. it might have been in the post your funny/blahblahblah pic thread in BW forum. 4hatch before pool/4CC before rax/4 Nexus before gate | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
i think the first one is still valid though. i'll edit out the second one. | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On April 10 2010 13:50 peckham33 wrote: oops, thats what happens when you use serch. i think the first one is still valid though. i'll edit out the second one. there's no infestors in sc1 wtf | ||
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PhOeniX[MinD]
361 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
this seems like a lodgical build to me. At around the time wraiths are out, mutas are out for zerg. wraiths should be able to handle any number of mutas, and it only takes 2 wraiths to one shot scourge. Once the game progresses to a point when you can get 10 wraiths (or nine with +1 attack) your air force can one shot overlords, which not only criples zerg suply, but makes invisable wraiths all the more effective. Im not sure how zerg could counter this. I guess mass hydras, but consider a hydra counter to air in a ZvZ matchup. Hydras are an inefective counter to mutas, and mutas are only slightly better in air to ground combat than wraiths are. (slightly higher attack, and slightly cheaper mutas vs slightly more health and invisible wraiths). I would try this srategy myself, but i can't play terran. thanks edit: i went on to liquipedia and found that its already an established strategy. so much for being creative and/or original | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
these people make me sad | ||
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Claytor656
United States15 Posts
Sair/Storm The idea eventually boils down to this "build order." Please take any creative construction with it as you want, I'm not the best player and I'm sure this isn't quite what it can be, 2 gate opening to apply pressure. This allows for the next step and encourages the player to go on the defensive. OR You can start with the traditional FE. You will need the gas and it's helpful, but this build can transition from 1 base rather well after the contain. 2 gate is still preferred on either start. After the initial pressure, lay down your core and forge as you see fit, and do not build any goons. You will not be using them unless absolutely critical. From here on, there branches another choice. Citadel or stargate. I start with the citadel most times, as it can transition off of two gate the easiest. Both need to be up soon though. The stargate is used to get your corsairs out. Against Zerg, they serve the obvious purpose. Against terran, they can can stop dropships or be used for quick scouting, but I prefer the citadel and legs in this case for the usual zealot push. After the citadel, get your archives and storm. From here on out, these are your units. The zealots provide cover and a shield for the templars. The corsairs will back up the air, and can easily scout around to see the location of the opponents army. You will eventually research, asap with all allowing, disruption web and begin to use this force similar to a Terran ball. With d web, I like to place it just behind the initial wave of units. This allows me to sandwich a large portion of the army between zealots and d web allowing maximized storms. Moving it along cliffs and ledges provide you with more of a wall between the templars and damage which you need. After storms, save them and keep the storms coming. This is your catch all for cloaking units engaging you, burrowed, etc. As well as simply being the main damage output of this ball. If you need an archon for more range, by all means but try to reserve and get the most output of the templars before that. I find this combination of units almost completely unstoppable against most armies of similar sizes. The web makes a lot of people falter, it's not a common thing to see. Tanks have to reseige and you move where you please as they continuously back up and melt to storm. Zergs are forced to move through you to continue and your mobility can match theirs. If you feel a lack of it, simply produce recalling arbiters and move the ball like that. It will arrive in posistion. The build is unique to me in that at no time is it unable to transition to a more standard approach. Take your third about the time of your first big push and you shoulb be able to maintain and contain from there.Scouting info here is important but I add the robo first and get obs as I feel you can only stall without detection for so long. Bring probes and cannon for detection otherwise in the meantime. You will have the minerals. | ||
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skippy2591
United States46 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 10 2010 13:50 peckham33 wrote: oops, thats what happens when you use serch. i think the first one is still valid though. i'll edit out the second one. Every time I look at page20 I'll be forced to cry because of you! HOW DARE YOU THINK ICcup IS SCII or that the infestor is in SCI! | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 10 2010 12:55 randomKo_Orean wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? O_O?!!?!?! His idea and its ability to actually have a chance at working. edit: O thank god I don't have to look at pg 20 anymore! =D | ||
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[XD]Juicebox
United States10 Posts
Tech straight to Starport, then expand and harass Overlords with Wraiths. Then switch to MnM. I think I've seen Boxer do it before, but then again, I don't know anything. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
PvZ or PvT: Win using an army of two races. PvZ: Use any build order that you want (e.g. sair/reaver, Bisu build) as long as it has Corsairs, but replace all the Corsairs with Scouts. | ||
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tempo
Germany2 Posts
Reavers + HT to hallucinate your Reavers + a few DAs to feedback enemy`s HTs Maybe the capacity upgrade for reavers is a good idea, so the hallucinated reavers shoot more than 5 times. I always wanted to see this strat performed, but I`m mostly just watching replays. Please give it a try. Thanks. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 12 2010 08:36 tempo wrote: Oh please, please try this in PvP: Reavers + HT to hallucinate your Reavers + a few DAs to feedback enemy`s HTs Maybe the capacity upgrade for reavers is a good idea, so the hallucinated reavers shoot more than 5 times. I always wanted to see this strat performed, but I`m mostly just watching replays. Please give it a try. Thanks. Reavers hallucinated can't make scarabs! This means hallucinated reavers will NOT be targeted first and will NOT attack! | ||
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tempo
Germany2 Posts
On April 12 2010 09:24 3FFA wrote: Reavers hallucinated can't make scarabs! This means hallucinated reavers will NOT be targeted first and will NOT attack! That`s why I said, that the capacity upgrade may be a good idea. They can`t build scarabs, but they will shoot the scarabs the original reaver had, when the hallucinations were made. Try it out. | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1972 Posts
On April 12 2010 06:03 [XD]Juicebox wrote: TvZ Tech straight to Starport, then expand and harass Overlords with Wraiths. Then switch to MnM. I think I've seen Boxer do it before, but then again, I don't know anything. 2 port wraith into SK Terran? I saw Flash do that against Jaedong, I think. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 12 2010 19:35 tempo wrote: That`s why I said, that the capacity upgrade may be a good idea. They can`t build scarabs, but they will shoot the scarabs the original reaver had, when the hallucinations were made. Try it out. ok I will. I never tried hallucinating reavers because I thought this didn't work since it doesn't work with carriers. I'll try it after I do my hw today. | ||
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zoOv
Australia269 Posts
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Neobick
Sweden208 Posts
On April 17 2010 00:17 zoov wrote: Hahaha Project 21 was AWESOME. I laughed throughout the whole game it's a brilliant strategy. Sorry for being noob because I only started two weeks ago, but is mining the back mineral in HBR or Destination legal in iCCup and those pro korean tourneys? If not how come they don't do it more to surprise their opponent? People are aware of this usually so they place a supply depot, pylon or something near it. Its easier on lower levels cause people tend to forget about it more often then. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 17 2010 00:17 zoov wrote: Hahaha Project 21 was AWESOME. I laughed throughout the whole game it's a brilliant strategy. Sorry for being noob because I only started two weeks ago, but is mining the back mineral in HBR or Destination legal in iCCup and those pro korean tourneys? If not how come they don't do it more to surprise their opponent? Bisu scouts Yellow doing it, places cannons there. Little does he suspect... | ||
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silentguy
99 Posts
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
On April 17 2010 04:53 Curu wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDGNBKplVw Bisu scouts Yellow doing it, places cannons there. Little does he suspect... I'm a bisu fan boy but yellow is too amazing in that game. mining out the back to hydra to lurker drops to muta tech switch... SO SEXY! | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
I have an idea TvZ. Forward barracks at around your natural choke, standard timing. Act as if you're going for a 1 rax FE build, but skip your second depot and just go for the cc a tad faster. Once your command centre is building, make gas at your main and switch into mech. The trick to this build is to intentionally supply block yourself. So when you're at 18/18 with an scv and a marine building, you make sure there are 2 marines in the unit queue so that the barracks continues to flash even after you're supply blocked. Make sure the Zerg doesn't see the mech inside the main, but the flashing barracks will probably make him think you're going bio. Also, bunker if necessary. Not sure how well this will work, but try it. | ||
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zoOv
Australia269 Posts
On April 17 2010 04:53 Curu wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDGNBKplVw Bisu scouts Yellow doing it, places cannons there. Little does he suspect... Thanks, just watched it. Fantastic game =) When I saw the scouting overlord in the main base and saw that it was undefended I was thinking elevator and YellOw does it! | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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trackd00r
Chile284 Posts
Are you still updating this random_Korean? -_- OP hasn't been updating this since January. Look last edit. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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KinkyZergling
Canada15 Posts
SCHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEECCCCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHH it would really make my day. Vod it please. you must use some combination of dweb and goons | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 18 2010 08:19 obesechicken13 wrote: Random_Korean said he'd be doing less starcraft after hosting his SC2 beta tournament because it was something his mom wanted him to do when she was on her deathbed. O,ok. I didn't know this. Thanks for the information. my own grandma and my friend's mom died recently(my friend's died a month ago and my grandma died 2 years ago but I still feel pain). I was told by my grandma(her last words to me) that "name, I know you'll grow up to be... wonderful man... see ya.... heaven". | ||
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silentguy
99 Posts
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-ty[r]ant
United States140 Posts
On April 18 2010 12:32 silentguy wrote: Um, you could try building a pylon at 8 probes, build 2 gateways and a Cybernetrics cores and then storm the opponent with the dragoons. But make sure you are well protected from any rushes. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2_Gate_Goon_Range_(vs._Terran) ... I'd love to see a backdoor push (ZvX, it could probably work best on ZvT) with a proxy hatchery into a Nydus Canal and sneak all your stuff over o.o Or just omit the Canal and proxy hatch on any map with a back door. Match Point could work next to the natural or on the far corner of the main where people don't normally build early on, if you could sneak your scouting drone in. Destination or HBR where it's mine-able would work too. I mean, besides the fact that you sort of did this on Project 21, maybe just a proxy hatchery would be cute... I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 18 2010 16:37 randomKo_Orean wrote: And you wonder why you got banned. Anyways, yes, I WILL finish these projects, but slowly but surely. But don't expect massive massive amounts of updates at all times. lol@ the banned part. ok. I hope you finish one soon. | ||
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RAUS
210 Posts
gas steal and a 14 nexus mannar pylon (incite nerd rage) the idea is that he will not be able to pressure the 14 nexus and will instead expand or marine- all in if he marines, get a forge up and throw up some cannons if he expos, then get another expansion. by the time he can contest the third base, you've reaped the benefits from it. all theorycraft, however, so i dont know how bad this is. heavily dependant on how much the terrans rage | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On April 10 2010 03:01 mesobored123 wrote: TvZ 2 shop vulture rush 2 shop mine and vulture speed upgrade [...] What's the fun in this build? It's a standard 2fact vulture harass. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On April 09 2010 18:19 Severedevil wrote: There's no point in this since all your units die to Vultures. A legitimate PvT unit composition must include at least one of Dragoons, Reavers, and Carriers, because they're the only units which can handle vultures. Now, if you did some kind of no-dragoon-range Reaver opening --> Zeal/Archon/Reaver shuttle-heavy play into arbiters, that would be kind of interesting. 1gate 4goon robo exp templar tech should be enough to pull this off; >=2 facts are going to kill the protoss anyway with this unit mix. The reaver part is risky though, it is micro intensive as hell and if the terran manually targets them, it's gg. I'd say it's still worth a try. | ||
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
By the way, this is an awesome thread. I'm looking forward to watching your attempt at the extended bio TvP idea, if I can figure out why replays won't work for me by then. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 21 2010 04:10 conTAgi0n wrote: I've been having problems with loading replays on my computer, but I really like the idea of a +1 ling timing attack. I tried figuring out a workable bo by myself, but a) I really suck, and b) I was having trouble accounting for the long research time of +1 attack and getting out enough lings to make it effective. Can anyone tell me what exactly the OP's bo is? By the way, this is an awesome thread. I'm looking forward to watching your attempt at the extended bio TvP idea, if I can figure out why replays won't work for me by then. I was about to mention this because it seems like the replay is corrupted as it shows little to nothing of the game. edit: by this I mean I see the game for a few minutes but after wards it has you working like a easy cpu/ a REALLY REALLY REALLY nooby noob and your opponent the same for certain periods of time. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On April 21 2010 05:19 3FFA wrote: edit: by this I mean I see the game for a few minutes but after wards it has you working like a easy cpu/ a REALLY REALLY REALLY nooby noob and your opponent the same for certain periods of time. That sounds like you're using a wrong version of the game. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 21 2010 17:20 Frigo wrote: That sounds like you're using a wrong version of the game. I'm not! If you know what happens when you try using SC1 to view SC:BW reps you know that you see it as something in the description like(haven't done it in a while)This replay is only compatible with Star Craft: Brood War. | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
But it was given that my opponent's army was away from his base. It took him a while to get the units to counter, but speed zeals have done their damage. While he was pulling back to defend, I pushed out. And I thought I was going to lose another PvZ. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
TvP 2 Base Arbiter BUT use the Arbiters not only to recall into Ts bases, but out again! (either to safety or another expo). I never understood why everyone let's their units die when the terran ball arrives to clean up. If you don't like that, you could get 2 starports lategame but only build Arbiters from 1 and Corsairs with Dweb from the other. When 200/200 4 Dwebs certainly help more than 1 stasis. (You might even try to fake Carriers by building the beacon where he can see.) Plus you can protect that silly Arb from turret fire when recalling. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
Specially in destination if you are at 6 oclock, sending one of the first 4 probes towards opponent base allows you cannon behind his mineral lines. Now, when any sane player scouts an empty protoss base they think it is proxy gateways and add more gates to respond... This is useless vs cannon rush. The opponent will soon lose control of his mineral line and by getting your second pylon next to your nexus you can defend your probes vs counter attacks. credit to: This OP. edit: and yes this was just copy and pasted but I wanted to see you try it and see how far you can get with it. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
-open like 2 hatch with gas at 13/14, but dont harvest. watch choke and send drones to harvest if/when scout comes near. -proxy 3rd hatch, drones to gas. only make drones here for den and an expo. spend/save the larvae on ovi's and lings rather but remember to be careful not let your opponent be suspicious. -lair at main, lair at proxy/ling speed (not sure which is better 1st, depends on how much overlord speed is delayed) - early extractor, maybe 50% lair (could be a giveaway, but it will be needed) -den can maybe be at 70-80% lair cos you probably wont have enough gas right after lair is done -after lair, get spire (must be right after lair, else there's no point) drop upgrade, lurker tech ovi speed. - morph hydra in time for drop upgrade - send 3-4 hydra and 8-10 lings into unguarded main. ---------------------------- ZvT double den hyrda -> lurk rush: 12 pool 12 hatch 11 (only save larvae for lings to hard counter fast marine rush) 13 2 lings 15 gas 16 ovi 100g - lair 40% lair - gas 50~60% lair - 2x den 100% lair/dens - hydra upgrade*, lurk tech. 100 gas - ling speed, 2 drones off gas ~40% hydra upgrade - start saving larvae 70-80% hydra upgrade - start making hydra, rally to nat once you get a few more drones and hatch, * get speed for more aggression, faster constant reinforce, larger distance, etc and range for sniping, containing be hardcore with lurker morphs, use it block ramp, "heal" injured hydra (lurks always come with full healt, but eggs keep a &age with hydra's health), turn targeted hydras into tanks (gotta be fast with that) etc. I'd love to see egg block on ramp with hydras out-ranging them ^^ you may have to sac a few lings now and again to make sure your lurk/hydra can safely burrow/morph at the top of his ramp. dont forget also that lurks dont suffer from low to high ground (just make sure you have a spotting ovi) if you dont win outright, make sure that whatever response terran goes for doesn't go unpunished, be it with a double expand, muta switch or whatever. | ||
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TriniMasta
United States1323 Posts
btw ur a good play judging from a few videos, keep practicing you'll get better Can't help you cuz your a lot better than me =( | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 23 2010 07:00 TriniMasta[wD] wrote: anyone gonna watch every replay? btw ur a good play judging from a few videos, keep practicing you'll get better Can't help you cuz your a lot better than me =( "gonna"? I HAVE watched every replay! lol. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
I would think that red reacted non-optimally. Imo, he should have stayed inside of his base, built one sunken next to his minerals so that he could drill drones around it, and teched to muta quickly to gain map control. At that point, he could expand safely, get gas fairly quickly. Randomkorean would have a timing window to expand, but being that far behind in tech would make it fairly hard to mass the same number of mutalisks as red would have. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
Try to survive 9pool with 2 initial zealots and shield battery. Chase away overlord with first goon. Prevent him scouting at all costs. Build forge after exping. Build citadel when you have some spare money. Beware of ling all-ins and mutas. If you see a spire, try destroying the morphing eggs with scarabs then run like hell. As always, be very careful with your shuttle and don't forget to macro, build pylons cannons etc. | ||
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Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
Same here and i love them <3 | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
Archons as well if it is too difficult. | ||
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Kaminate
United States49 Posts
Start off from a 1 rax expand and play for the normal quick tech 9 minute push build. You probably would want to build your refinery at the expansion very early, because I have a feeling you'll need a ton of gas for this build. Build your second Starport shortly after you start the science facility, upgrading to the physics lab and control tower once each building completes. Thus once the first science vessel pops, you can immediately start building 2 Battlecrusiers. The goal of the initial push is to buy enough time for you to mass Battlecrusiers and win straight up with those. | ||
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GeMicles
Canada307 Posts
zvz - scourge lurker. scourge ovies to let the lurks gain map control for you. and the bisu build in pvp? | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines545 Posts
2port wraith, with cloak and scan. kill observers with scan/wraith, while you turtle 1base with clifftanks to take natural. only works if theres no cannons, but most of the times toss don't bother to get cannons vs T | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines545 Posts
On May 03 2010 14:11 GeMicles wrote: oh i know. zvz - scourge lurker. scourge ovies to let the lurks gain map control for you. and the bisu build in pvp? theres this thing called mutalisks that pretty much every zerg gets in zvz >__> | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On May 03 2010 20:22 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:2port wraith, with cloak and scan. kill observers with scan/wraith, while you turtle 1base with clifftanks to take natural Every decent protoss will cannon whore once they see a single cloaked wraith. In fact I already do it normally since I just fucking hate vulture harass. Apart from that, it is vulnerable to storms, and I believe archons as well. Spending too many scans on observers might make it vulnerable to DTs, but Arbiters could be sniped easier.Shuttles will be ineffective as well, given proper scouting. Observer range upgrade might mean you will have a hard time finding them. A trickier toss could also hallucinate observers, though I'm not sure if they would be cloaked as well (I suppose not). Unless you can prevent toss from expanding with those wraiths while you macro up, this strategy is doomed to fail. | ||
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GeMicles
Canada307 Posts
On May 03 2010 20:24 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: theres this thing called mutalisks that pretty much every zerg gets in zvz >__> i was hoping for uber scourge control | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
You start with 12 hatch - > 3 hatch - > 6 spores & hydra range or +1 > Lair - > Hive ( Ovie speed ) - > Esnare + Queen - > Defiler - > move out The above can be modified as I didn`t check details and exact timings - but they are not important as long as the timing push isn`t delayed forever. Walk out as soon as you have 3 defilers with plague and about 4 groups of Hydras Whole idea is about defeating his army with 2-3 well casted plagues. There is enough gas for it - getting hive tech is quite quick but enough to provide gas supply for 3 defilers and even Queen and Esnare if ya want Queen and Esnare. Stopping this push might be really hard for any muta ling - defeating upgraded Hydra army with plague is almost undoable. He may expand and defend it with lurkers - but in this case you should have map control so you can expand as well - then he plays on your terms, you have plenty of drones and faster tech so it should do well. The problem might be that it takes a while to get consume & plague research. He can also get hive tech if he sees what you r doing but then you have superior upgrades in hydra vs hydra and hydra vs muta fight with plagues - goes in hydra`s favor - so you r ok either way. 6-8-10 spores - I`d say 8 with proper placement - you ll have ranged hydras support soon enough and plenty of drones. If you don`t see him - you might apply 3 hatch ling pressure - you don`t die and you possibly leave him behind in eco if he defends well. Anyways - he has no way to harras you with muta - when you walk out you already have defilers and plague. Its might be a flexible and even solid build, if used with correct adjustments - because hydra + plague army is a very, very powerful ZvZ army. Its really flexible thanks to what tech options give you - and there isn`t any easy way or hard counter for him to beat it, in fact there are more easy ways for you to beat him. Hope you try it out mate ^_^ | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines545 Posts
i also noticed that you had an economic advantage using this build compared to the other zerg's muta build, so maybe some spores before you move out, with overlords on top of them to make targeting bitchier. with parasite, he has to kill his own units or you always know where he's going to hit, which equalizes his mobility advantage. | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On May 06 2010 07:04 UFO wrote: Parasite doesn`t accomplish or help any strategical goal of this build which is basicly to win your hydra vs muta / other army battle, esnare is a better option. This. Maybe 1 parasite but thats it. | ||
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On May 03 2010 14:11 GeMicles wrote: and the bisu build in pvp? The forge-fe gets broken so quick. It doesn't work at all. | ||
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mmp
United States2130 Posts
TvP open FD to FE - 3 SCVs on gas all the time - but add an armory immediately after factory, second factory after 1 tank - skip vultures & mines, and just pump goliaths. Goliaths don't totally suck 1-on-1 against goons, so attack if toss is on low gateways and you have the number advantage. Mix in vult and additional tanks as reinforcements. I would get an academy in there to deal with possible DT trouble, but primarily to count the gateways and/or expansion timing to see if an attack is viable. If the toss matches you with gateways, start your 3rd expansion (float it, not directly) and add tanks, start weapons upgrade. Use vultures defensively if toss tries to attack. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
wall in and go fact port and proxy your ebay sort of closs to his base. Load up a tank, a vultuer, and two scv's into a dropship and drop them on cliff behind natural. Land your ebay so that your forces are walled between the temple, and the bay. repair if he tries to attack. do you still do these? | ||
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Talia
Germany64 Posts
End a game with a proxy hatchery+nydus canal :D | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
- Do as many drops as you can, harass without shame, and generally be a pain in the ass to annoy your opponent and to throw him off balance. Simultaneous drops, regular drop services, backstab, anything - Cheese in a game as much as you can. Gas steal, cannon rush, proxy gates, proxy robo, reaver drop, DT drop, fast arbiters, early recalls, all in the same game - Get 6 dropships and 12 tanks in TvZ and drop them on zerg's main | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
[B]On May 06 2010 15:01 puppykiller wrote:[/B do you still do these? Read a few pages back and you'll find his answer when I asked the same question. | ||
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ProxY
United States1 Post
i heard you'll be doing less starcraft but i just wanted to post this well the story goes i was playing against my friend in TvT and he would always do some scv harassment with marines. so i thought what if i lay down fast gas like 8/10 makes gas then i make a barrack in my natural choke then i make a supply depot back in my main then i make another barracks in my natural choke. make some bunkers to defend and also to wall off choke. fill bunkers with 1 scv each and 3 marines(when the attack comes take the scv out of each bunker to repair the corresponding bunker) factory at around 15/18 then another factory at around 17/18 (both with machines) 18/18 depot pump tanks make command center finally at your natural and at the same time make a ebay and starport(back in your main) the missile turrets round your main to protect yourself from any air that they most likely made by this point while pumping some wraiths to help in the air attacks while laying down an armory(in your natural)to then pump out goliaths to also help in protection from that air attack( cause that air attack will be coming at you hard)and an academy for some scans and the whole time your pumping more tanks from your two factories to do a tank push and while you push with your tanks you set up as many proxy factories as you can in the middle of the map to make vultures or goliaths for reinforcements (obviously depending on what type of army they have) then just push into their base and hopefully get a GG from them. [well i tried this against my friend as stated above it was working very well he really freaked out when he saw all my buildings in my natural(he probably thought i already expanded) but while i was setting up for my final attack my friend with his unreliable internet d/ced , but my friend and i arent know to be very good players i just want so see my strategy used against some great players and know the end results] {not sure if this could be used in other match ups besides TvT but im sure it can be and im sure it can be used in different maps such as python} plz try it or at least tell me what you think about it other players reading this plz also tell me what you think and tell mw what could be done to improve it ty (ty for reading) ~ProxY | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On May 18 2010 22:41 Metalwing wrote: Proxy Gateway Zealot All in rush vs Z or T ? U may build your first pylon as a proxy one, build 2-3 gateways there, do mass zealots and rush zerg for all in ? That's quite a standard build on icc D-C anyway...Fucking borring! | ||
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reincremate
China2213 Posts
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noname_
456 Posts
After 2-3 (if the map is flat obviuosly more) rine+1 tank+mine upgrade on way, get your exp, then pump vults. (e-bay in case you scouted SP`s or possible Wraith action/ wasn`t able to scout SP`s) Make up to 4 facts, Gain mapcontrol with mines and vultures (when he will have scans, all the energy will probably be used to scout mines), research siege only if it`s necesarry. After 4 facts go for the nukes, and a dropship, 2-3 silos (really fast 3rd cc if you can afford it). Destroy mineral lines and supply depots with Nukes, then finish up with 4 fac tank. | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
EDIT: Combined with nukes, longGG | ||
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noname_
456 Posts
On May 20 2010 02:08 Metalwing wrote: TvP Ghost+BCruiser, Lockdown+Yamata takes care of business :D EDIT: Combined with nukes, longGG That sounds quite impossilbe considering the heavy amount of gas needed to work. (4-5 gas bases..) facts, sps, 2 sci facs, addons, upgrades, the bcs and ghosts themselfs lots of gas, not considering the units needed in order just for survival. | ||
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thestool91
672 Posts
Please try this build against higher C levels or B levels. It works against players C- and below. 4 pool (hopefully they go FE) make hatchery inside base but outside of scout range while hatchery is making, get gas and upgrade ling speed 100% hatchery, make sunkens and kill his base with them | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On May 27 2010 05:56 thestool91 wrote: ZvP Please try this build against higher C levels or B levels. It works against players C- and below. 4 pool (hopefully they go FE) make hatchery inside base but outside of scout range while hatchery is making, get gas and upgrade ling speed 100% hatchery, make sunkens and kill his base with them I didn't see this trick get any D or D+ player down. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On May 27 2010 05:56 thestool91 wrote: ZvP Please try this build against higher C levels or B levels. It works against players C- and below. 4 pool (hopefully they go FE) make hatchery inside base but outside of scout range while hatchery is making, get gas and upgrade ling speed 100% hatchery, make sunkens and kill his base with them I am sorry, but why would you open 4pool? The exact order of this isn't specific, you should just 9hatch in their base then 9pool 9 overlord and begin sunken pushing. With that build hatch/pool finish at the same time, so you can start immediately. 4 drones can't support a sunken push the way you said, or at least in an effective manner. | ||
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jolenar
United States23 Posts
Open standard 3 hatch muta ZvT style but put third hatchery at third base. Get a fourth hatch at your nat after spire when minerals allow. Put down third gas somewhere after this. Get a sunken at your nat and third. Get 8 mutas and 1 pair of scourge. Make 2 more mutas and a pair of scourge. Put down 5th hatch at your third, wall your nat and third with hydra den and evo to defend against zealot counterattacks. Add one more sunken at each if he has a lot of them, which means less cannons so if you survive his speedlots he's screwed. At this point I like to rally my main hatchery over and just make scourge while the rest of my hatches make drones/hydras and upgrade. Push out when overspeed finishes with hydras. Also I like to take my 4th at this time while I attack his nat. | ||
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
On May 29 2010 09:06 jolenar wrote: Mmm I'd like to see 3 hatch muta ZvP tried at higher levels; I've only played against C- protosses. I've never seen a pro gamer do this for some reason but it works so well, much better than a hydra opening, so I'm wondering if there's some weakness I'm missing. In small numbers muta/scourge rape corsair/cannons, and archons get stuck on the mineral line so often that they're rather useless if you micro around them. probably because of this.. or this or.. this? | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On April 23 2010 08:30 GHOSTCLAW wrote: one of my friends pointed project 32 out to me. Pretty cool to see this build - I think it's sc2 bringing out non-optimal play innovations in sc1. A few koreans on BrainClan used it. One used it in almost all of his zvz games with me (about 5), 2 hatch, +1 melee and spores. And that was back when we were allowed to play there, about a year plus ago. | ||
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Decker247
United States44 Posts
go 1 rax into expand followed up with fast academy 3 raxes get dropships drop firebats in main/natural /wherever is not defended transition into 6 rax pump with fast battlecruisers put pressure on him and take third with bunkers if push dies your bunekrs should be enough to hold third and your antural mghit need more if it doesnt have tanks defending it already should be really strong on map with island expansions gl hf | ||
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avaTar[
Mexico301 Posts
On May 30 2010 04:29 Decker247 wrote: idea TvP: go 1 rax into expand followed up with fast academy 3 raxes get dropships drop firebats in main/natural /wherever is not defended transition into 6 rax pump with fast battlecruisers put pressure on him and take third with bunkers if push dies your bunekrs should be enough to hold third and your antural mghit need more if it doesnt have tanks defending it already should be really strong on map with island expansions gl hf Storm. | ||
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k.taeyang
Peru145 Posts
1) You apply a proxy 2 starport build. 2) You harass him so badly, that your opponent won't be able to recover from the damage. 3) Whatever you do from here on, you will have HUGE advantage. 4) But try this: Take your natural command center, and if you want double expand in a hidden expo. Go Bio, +1 upgrade (I don't care which you choose) and with the remaining wraiths clean up the vultures and tanks And later you keep humiliating him with dropping M&M in your opponent's main. You sure gotta save your opponent's ranting. GG :D | ||
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Twilexia
United States62 Posts
Here's my recommendation: PvZ Only use higher-tech Gateway units (meaning, no zealots/dragoons, only use HT's, DT's, Archons and Dark Archons). Must use Maelstrom at least once, and also hallucination at least once. You can use zealots/goons until you get to Templar tech, but after that you cannot make anymore zealots/goons | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
Lots of bases and hatches and hive tech killed it*. http://www.iccup.com/replays/177241.html *: My main is not zerg, adjust your "LOLNOOB" exclamations accordingly. | ||
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airtown
United States410 Posts
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shinjin
United States398 Posts
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
On June 07 2010 07:38 Frigo wrote: Obsed a PvZ where toss went 2gate +1 zeal rush. It was pure rape. if you get a forge, it isnt a 2gate opening. if you mean getting 2gates after a forge FE, then a waaaay stronger variation would be 4gate 2archon +1. | ||
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Sky.Technique
United States271 Posts
if u dont know what im talking about then watch teamliquid.net attack! idra on youtube. Hovz ended up getting the mousepad. if thats not what he means then idk. but it isnt rape (the build) . quoting chill, "it only works on like d- people and only if they dont scout it" :O | ||
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zrules
United States88 Posts
ZvZ +1 armor as opposed to attack. I have a feeling it would be better v Lings that are in a defensive positioning (they are arced while your attacking since it will take 9 hits to kill your lings as opposed to your lings being +1 att which makes your lings able to kill their's in 6 hits, when the base is 7 or 8 (depends on you luck with regen) but worse v. Sunkens (since they will still 2 hit) so if they expect you be a lot more defensive with that Evo Chamber it might work better. Of course you could also just do dual Evos but I think that's insanely all in and you probably would need to have a 12 hatch with heavy droning to get that to be economical (and potentially a third production hatchery might be necessary cause of heavy drones). | ||
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SpartiK1S
United States145 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On June 07 2010 07:38 Frigo wrote: Obsed a PvZ where toss went 2gate +1 zeal rush. It was pure rape. Little clarification: he went gas forge +1 weapon 2gate. Zerg was lax on scouting and went 3base blindly. Toss built forge in main though he could have faked a forge FE, that way it could've been more effective. | ||
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On June 07 2010 20:12 Frigo wrote: Little clarification: he went gas forge +1 weapon 2gate. Zerg was lax on scouting and went 3base blindly. Toss built forge in main though he could have faked a forge FE, that way it could've been more effective. I think Reach did that vs Yellow on Bifrost... It's one of the fastest +1attacks you can do. #Yeah here's the VOD: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/5426_Reach_vs_YellOw/vod | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
OR have as many arbiters as terran has bases, recall carriers (and various troops) into a terran base, snipe buildings, and recall the same units into another terran base, and into another, etc. | ||
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saltywet
Hong Kong1316 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7888 Posts
On July 01 2010 22:49 saltywet wrote: tvt, 2 base battlecruiser as in 2 base carrier in pvt. a quick bc rush might surprise the opponent 2 base carrier is a viable build which used to be quite popular iirc. You just don't do it on every map if not you get horribly raped. | ||
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dasanivan
United States532 Posts
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
On July 02 2010 10:20 dasanivan wrote: T v Z, scout early and in the case of the zerg 12 hatching take an entire control group of SCVs and destroy the zerg's spawning pool before it finishes building (might want to do this only when zerg builds pool too far from hatchery). at this point you should have a barracks finished and then you can finish him off with a bunker rush or go on to a straight up game. A straight up game after attacking with 12 SCVs? Why would you do that? | ||
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dasanivan
United States532 Posts
On July 02 2010 10:43 Magus wrote: A straight up game after attacking with 12 SCVs? Why would you do that? good question. | ||
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Piste
6175 Posts
On June 07 2010 20:12 Frigo wrote: Little clarification: he went gas forge +1 weapon 2gate. Zerg was lax on scouting and went 3base blindly. Toss built forge in main though he could have faked a forge FE, that way it could've been more effective. Hmm I think I know what build you're talking about. do you have a replay? If this is a build I think it is about, then faking a forge fe will not work. | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
Use ghosts instead of tanks in tvz. Get range upgrade and they will outrange lurkers. This will revolutionise everything. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
On July 02 2010 13:05 BookTwo wrote: Not sure if this has been suggested, I have read the op, not the whole thread. Use ghosts instead of tanks in tvz. Get range upgrade and they will outrange lurkers. This will revolutionise everything. Isn't that just a sight range upgrade? It wasn't actual weapon range I don't think... Ya just checked Liquipedia (god it's useful) and it only increases Nuke range, not firing range. | ||
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BookTwo
1985 Posts
Edit:Yeah they can. So just substitute ghosts for tanks. I guess their cheaper. | ||
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ZBiR
Poland1092 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:12 Piste wrote: Hmm I think I know what build you're talking about. do you have a replay? If this is a build I think it is about, then faking a forge fe will not work. Check Fisheye reps on Korhal from WCG 2003, it's probably like this. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:12 Piste wrote: Hmm I think I know what build you're talking about. do you have a replay? If this is a build I think it is about, then faking a forge fe will not work. Here ya go: http://www.iccup.com/replays/187104.html (goddamn, hiding replays by default is retarded) Ignore the obs blahblah. Use ghosts instead of tanks in tvz. Get range upgrade and they will outrange lurkers. This will revolutionise everything. Ohmygod yes, do this! Mass ghosts to deal with lurkers + nukes for sunken break, mass carnage and taking out expos + cloaking to hunt lings and filers. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
go straight up scouts/dts/obs kill enemy obs to use dts to win if not transition into arbiter/da with regular goon/lot army | ||
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Necosarius
Sweden4042 Posts
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
straight up lol | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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S[-_-]iege
United States29 Posts
Open 1 rax FE, play standard and do SK Terran with no mouse XD | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
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