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This map baffles me; I look at the iccup stats and it appears to be the most P favored map in pvt, but when I play pvt on this it feels like the hardest pvt map ever. So, I decided to play some tvp on it, and playing as T on it, it felt even more like the easiest tvp map ever made.
I'm at a lost on what strategies to use on this map in PVT. You can't play for late game versus a decent Terran on this map, as at the very least they will be able to hold their third, and that's all it really seems they need. It's so easy for Terran to split the map, and the middle expo is theirs for the taking when it comes time for it. So not only does Terran end up with more resources, but you can't have 1 cost efficient attack as protoss because you have to keep attacking mass tanks up hills... Attacking entrenched tanks up a hill and not being able to flank if they do decide to move out...
What can you do? Play super aggressive and hope the Terran is bad enough to succumb to it? The only thing that seems relatively viable considering the terran is decent is some kinda gas steal into fast carrier play.
My last pvt game on the map: http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=25595
I feel like I'm out playing everyone I'm playing but when you are forced into attacks that are not cost effective over and over again, it's going to take it's toll. Am I supposed to carrier switch at the perfect time every game and time my upgrades on them so I don't get owned by 3-3... Jut seems like such an unfair burden. Any horrible Terran can keep a third and make units.... ugh.
I haven't gotten the chance to watch many pro games on this, so if any of you know of a strategy that defeated a good terran, please direct me to it. Thanks...
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Expand fast and get arbiters. The two pathways forces the Terran to choose one and wall the other. Use that mobility to flank or recall. If they camp, get more units. The walls into the main are thin, so elevator drops also work.
The backdoor to the nat is also very vulnerable, use it.
and no i don't feel it as the easiest TvP map. 
my 2 cents.
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I expand fast and get arbiters quickly every game, even use hallucination on this map when they defend it well enough with turrets. It's just that sooner or later you have to start killing a lot of units, and that's no easy task on this map. Since the third is a gas expo, terran usually comes out with a lot of vessels, not enabling you to stasis anything, and that's a battle that is hard to win when it's near impossible to flank.
Examples via reps or vods would be awesome!
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BTW... Recommended TvP BOs in this map?
Flash Build?
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Back when I played protoss, I always used a 2 base arbiter build against terran, and it seemed to work well for me.
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On December 03 2009 08:15 avaTar[ wrote:
BTW... Recommended TvP BOs in this map?
Flash Build?
There was a really good thread about TvP on HBR a little while ago that showed that the TvP wins against competent Protoss players all involved dropships harassment or something like that.
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whenever I play on ICCup and see games on HBR, I play protoss instead of terran. If I'm playing PvT, I send out my 5th probe and proxy a gate on the high ground outside of their base, then start building cannons (I think go.go got hit by this cheese in a recent OSL game). If that doesn't work, I expand to the corners (and wall them off) and go carriers.
It usually works.
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That Stork vod was amazing. His play was so brilliant; unfortunately, I have no idea how Stork plays pvt with 100% goon armies for so long into his games.
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On December 03 2009 08:09 Marksman wrote:Expand fast and get arbiters. The two pathways forces the Terran to choose one and wall the other. Use that mobility to flank or recall. If they camp, get more units. The walls into the main are thin, so elevator drops also work. The backdoor to the nat is also very vulnerable, use it. and no i don't feel it as the easiest TvP map. my 2 cents.
lol
2 base arb, take your 3rd once first arb is building and get recall before stasis. try to punish terran with recalls left-right-and-center. 10 goons to his 3rd (out of range of lowground tanks) can snipe the CC before he can float it away.
Really your goal should be to stop the terran from taking his 3rd and letting his economy kick in. 2 base arb lets you plant a DT at the 3rd, delaying the CC landing. It's impossible to attack a positioned terran army on this map so either attack while he's pushing (which 9 times out of 10 won't be until 200/200 with 2/2 ups or better) and hope you can catch his tanks clumped up with some storms.
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On December 03 2009 08:48 Sunyveil wrote:
whenever I play on ICCup and see games on HBR, I play protoss instead of terran. If I'm playing PvT, I send out my 5th probe and proxy a gate on the high ground outside of their base, then start building cannons (I think go.go got hit by this cheese in a recent OSL game). If that doesn't work, I expand to the corners (and wall them off) and go carriers.
It usually works. lol i don't think this helps.
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On December 03 2009 08:53 machinehead.. wrote:
That Stork vod was amazing. His play was so brilliant; unfortunately, I have no idea how Stork plays pvt with 100% goon armies for so long into his games.
you should study some g5 reps. notably vs boxer and the other terrans at IEF
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On December 03 2009 08:53 machinehead.. wrote:
That Stork vod was amazing. His play was so brilliant; unfortunately, I have no idea how Stork plays pvt with 100% goon armies for so long into his games.
Because it's Stork, and he's sexy.
Nah really, no point in getting zealots unless you've teched up to templar because they're useless without speed upgrade.
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At <C levels, use a strong opening and go for a micro-oriented contain. Force him to push out of his nat with leap frog, don't let him out easy... If he over extends, immediately punish him... THe idea is to delay his 3rd until you get yours up and running.
The only thing you really need to worry about on this map v. T is drops. Just try to sneak an obs into his base so you can spot it before you die to vult raids.
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United States2186 Posts
12 nexus every game or do some kind of tech cheese/gas steal/proxy dt fe is really weak. Take your expansions earlier than normal since timing pushes are impossible and Terran can't punish 12 nexus (if they try to bunker rush it just pylon wall their choke and they can't reinforce with vulture so it will surely fail and they will lose right there). The only thing you have to watch out for is fast drop builds so keep your goons near the mineral lines at your main/nat/3rd unless you scout him going for a timing push in which case just do what Stork did. You never let it get to even resource count you just keep fighting battles and never let them secure the 4th base. When they push out just make sure you fight them on the low ground rather than letting them set up on the high ground and you're golden. Arbs are great but so are carrier switches really anything works so long as you just keep expanding and block drops.
You suicided about 15 units after you won the game by stopping his push since you were too impatient to wait for observers. When he pushed out you had 50 more supply the first time and 30 more the second time but you kept trying to counter when you could've just killed his army and the second time he made the right decision and you paid for it. The way I saw it was you did better than you should've against a superior player (well someone who had bad builds but good decisions/mechanics) because you played on hbr.
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On December 03 2009 08:26 fwing11 wrote:starleague spoiler, continue w/ caution: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnW-XdE3V9o [/spoiler]
Fix tag please 
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Sadly, I have been inspired by the movie vs go.go game. After seeing the Stork game, it kinda gave me reassurance that my assumptions were on the right track as far as how to play a standard'ish game on that map, but I don't feel comfortable with taking that third (on their side of the map) -- feel it's a little too luck based/risky, so may as well do a risky strategy that is far easier to pull off/less skill.
To the above, I'm not a big fan of 12 nexus simply because too many people cheese on iccup; instead, I prefer gas steal into fast expo. Same effect, but much, much safer.
I literally have no experience doing proxy builds, be it cannons or w/e. If any have seen the movie vs go.go game, is a goon follow up better than dts? Or is it a matter of preference?
It feels so dirty to cheese, but it feels even worse to feel that you are outplaying your opponent but losing so horribadly
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On December 03 2009 09:35 wok wrote:Fix tag please [/spoiler]
hehe thanks ^^
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On December 03 2009 08:15 avaTar[ wrote:
BTW... Recommended TvP BOs in this map?
Flash Build?
yes. 4 factories before you take your third though, not colloseum style
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My biggest problem when playing TvP is when they arbiter rush, and recall into my main as im moving out to seige my 3rd. You try to bring back your troops and stop it, but any decent protoss will just statis your first couple units when they are about to go through that tiny entrance at the natural. You can use SCVS to try and dislodge the statis, but alot of times it doesn't work out well b/c the choke is just soo small.
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EPT
