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Before i start, i want to let everyone know I have just spent the last 3 hours scouring the internet for every written muta guide and every video i could find. Then i have spent 2 hours trying to practice the things i have learned, so i'm really posting this as a last resort.
I'm having trouble with the 'hold position' way of attacking.
From what I have gathered, the hold position attack is meant to be used by right clicking past your target, then hitting hold as you come into range, then flying away before you stop.
However when i try to do this, my mutas wont attack. I hit hold then click away and its all too fast and none of them fire. I have tried doing this with no latency, high latency and tried timing my clicks differently.
On the other hand, if i wait longer before i command them to move away, they decelerate and almost come to stop while they attack (and all the guides say to NEVER let them stop moving).
If i use the attack command to move past them, then click hold, they fire but i assume its just the attack command kicking in and the hold hasn't taken effect.
So basically, I can't get them to move towards the target, fire and retreat without stopping using the hold command. If anyone has knowledge about this and is able to inform me of EXACTLY how they do it i would really appreciate it. I obviously need to know about every mouse click and button hit.
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Have you tried doing this on lan latency?
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Umm, ok...
1) You click past a unit, once your IN RANGE click hold position (and make sure mutas are facing target) and it should fire then move back. Thats all there is 2 it.
2) If there is something attacking ur mutas thats out of range and theres nothing attacking ur mutas in ur muta range, the mutas will not fire. Ex. Marines shooting mutas out of their range but u want to try and pick at scvs with hold position. Will not work.
I prefer using patrol because I take less damage from marines but thats just me
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this doesn't work on battle.net very well so that might be your problem. the ~half second delay really screws over your timing when vs marines and medics
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 28 2009 11:54 Cloud wrote:
Have you tried doing this on lan latency?
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Yea, don't go mutas on b net unless your massing them, cause you can't micro them at all.
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The #1 might be what you're missing: The mutas must be facing EXACTLY correctly. If your muta is facing 3 o'clock and the unit is at 2 o'clock, it might not shoot.
If nothing else is working, try this: create a UMS map with a single enemy supply depot with 9999 health, 11 mutalisks, and one hatchery (for the larva).
Now, group the 11 mutalisks with a larva, and all I want you to do to start is try and get that first moving hit in. I.e., run your mutalisks towards the depot, and press hold position to try and get them to fire whilst moving. Then, naturally, they'll stop and continue firing. That's fine. Don't issue any command after hold position.
Repeating this should give you a good sense of proper distance and angle.
Then, once you got this down, slowly start adding a second right click in the backwards direction to the sequence. At first, make it really really late. Like, let the mutas get off two hits before you tell them to run away. Then, keep shortening it until you can get a feel of how long you need to let the mutalisk sit in hold position to fire before moving it back.
That should work.
Otherwise, try watching some of the live streams of zerg players or FPVODs online. See what the good zergs are doing that you're not.
Edit: Oh, also, I do actually use mutas sometimes on b.net. The trick there is hitting H really really really really early. It's the same exact timing as on LAN, just everything is done a few seconds sooner depending on the lag.
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I feel like I've heard something about right clicking on minerals to get the mutas to face in the right direction as they approach the SCVs, then right clicking behind them, and them hitting hold. Or something like that? I just know it involved minerals and muta micro. Lol
I could definitely be completely wrong. Correct me if I am, please.
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No, u just click move in the direction of the scvs.........
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United States17042 Posts
On October 28 2009 13:59 Always wrote:
I feel like I've heard something about right clicking on minerals to get the mutas to face in the right direction as they approach the SCVs, then right clicking behind them, and them hitting hold. Or something like that? I just know it involved minerals and muta micro. Lol
I could definitely be completely wrong. Correct me if I am, please.
you used to need to do this before you could stack them properly, as minerals make the mutalisks stack without grouping them with overlords/larvae
try hold on singleplayer (show me the money, operation cwal, and then attack T opponents with stacked muta). Or create the ums. Both should make it so that latency isn't a factor at all (bnet lat screws up every single kind of micro. no joke)
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I tried on single player and it worked much better. I was previously trying on iccup against the computer with no one else in the game, i thought that it would be the same as single player but obviously not. Anyway thanks for the help especially monkus, I tried what you said and it helped me a lot.
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If there's something attacking the mutas from outside of their range and no other units in range are attacking, the mutas will just stop, so make sure you aren't trying to use hold position micro on scvs when there are turrets or rines firing on you.
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On October 28 2009 18:05 Wretchedness wrote:
I tried on single player and it worked much better. I was previously trying on iccup against the computer with no one else in the game, i thought that it would be the same as single player but obviously not. Anyway thanks for the help especially monkus, I tried what you said and it helped me a lot.
ICCUP should have lan latency. If you don't, you need to reconfigure the ICCUP launcher.
On October 28 2009 20:31 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
If there's something attacking the mutas from outside of their range and no other units in range are attacking, the mutas will just stop, so make sure you aren't trying to use hold position micro on scvs when there are turrets or rines firing on you.
Actually, this is an AI issue that might be interesting to exploit - the AI will automatically target enemy fighting units from slightly outside their maximum range (true of static defenses, even) which could allow you to disable a static against your incoming non-combatant (such as a shuttle with reaver) just by parking a fighting unit one space out of range.
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listen up, newbie
you don't need to read guides for something as simple and elementary as muta micro
its pretty simple
1. move-command past your target so mutas don't decelerate as they approach the target
2. get in range of target, aclick attack
3. turn away from target (not in one motion, but two, because a 180 turn splits your mutas)
4. after cooldown is off, turn back and repeat
User was banned for this post.
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I find that hold position micro really, really doesn't work outside of lan-latency. I always just do the single target method for b.net.
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On October 28 2009 23:33 Nal_rAwr wrote:
listen up, newbie
you don't need to read guides for something as simple and elementary as muta micro
its pretty simple
1. move-command past your target so mutas don't decelerate as they approach the target
2. get in range of target, aclick attack
3. turn away from target (not in one motion, but two, because a 180 turn splits your mutas)
4. after cooldown is off, turn back and repeat
User was banned for this post.
May I ask for what reason was he banned Chill? Sure he called OP newbie, but in a friendly way, and sure he kinda gave bad advice, but I'm sure he did it with best intentions.
P.S. Forgive me for questioning your strategic mod greatness.
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United States17042 Posts
On October 28 2009 22:30 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2009 18:05 Wretchedness wrote:
I tried on single player and it worked much better. I was previously trying on iccup against the computer with no one else in the game, i thought that it would be the same as single player but obviously not. Anyway thanks for the help especially monkus, I tried what you said and it helped me a lot. ICCUP should have lan latency. If you don't, you need to reconfigure the ICCUP launcher.
I think that single player has 0 latency, which is different from lan latency. Not entirely sure though, but someone who was much much better than me at starcraft might be able to tell >.>
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On October 29 2009 00:18 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2009 23:33 Nal_rAwr wrote:
listen up, newbie
you don't need to read guides for something as simple and elementary as muta micro
its pretty simple
1. move-command past your target so mutas don't decelerate as they approach the target
2. get in range of target, aclick attack
3. turn away from target (not in one motion, but two, because a 180 turn splits your mutas)
4. after cooldown is off, turn back and repeat
User was banned for this post. May I ask for what reason was he banned Chill? Sure he called OP newbie, but in a friendly way, and sure he kinda gave bad advice, but I'm sure he did it with best intentions. P.S. Forgive me for questioning your strategic mod greatness.
I agree with Chill. Off with his head!
I'm a protoss user so I don't need to use micro, it's more of a 1a2a3a micro.
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On October 29 2009 00:27 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2009 22:30 Severedevil wrote:On October 28 2009 18:05 Wretchedness wrote:
I tried on single player and it worked much better. I was previously trying on iccup against the computer with no one else in the game, i thought that it would be the same as single player but obviously not. Anyway thanks for the help especially monkus, I tried what you said and it helped me a lot. ICCUP should have lan latency. If you don't, you need to reconfigure the ICCUP launcher. I think that single player has 0 latency, which is different from lan latency. Not entirely sure though, but someone who was much much better than me at starcraft might be able to tell >.>
From my experience, Singleplayer reacts slightly better than the best online matches. Don't know how it is on real LAN, but I guess the latency should come extremely close to Singleplayer.
If SC's engine works the way I guess, you would always have ~20 milliseconds of average "latency" anways.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On October 29 2009 00:18 lone_hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2009 23:33 Nal_rAwr wrote:
listen up, newbie
you don't need to read guides for something as simple and elementary as muta micro
its pretty simple
1. move-command past your target so mutas don't decelerate as they approach the target
2. get in range of target, aclick attack
3. turn away from target (not in one motion, but two, because a 180 turn splits your mutas)
4. after cooldown is off, turn back and repeat
User was banned for this post. May I ask for what reason was he banned Chill? Sure he called OP newbie, but in a friendly way, and sure he kinda gave bad advice, but I'm sure he did it with best intentions. P.S. Forgive me for questioning your strategic mod greatness.
Chill didn't ban him, Cow did (see the ban thread in the Closed Forum).
He was temp banned because a) he didn't read the OP, b) he posted in a very condescending and hostile manner
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On October 28 2009 18:05 Wretchedness wrote:
I tried on single player and it worked much better. I was previously trying on iccup against the computer with no one else in the game, i thought that it would be the same as single player but obviously not. Anyway thanks for the help especially monkus, I tried what you said and it helped me a lot.
you should still be able to do hold-position muta micro on ICCup with lan latency enabled, although it is much easier on single-player (0 latency).
As others have said, I wouldn't recommend trying it or practicing it on b.net. Even low latency on b.net is ridiculous, something like 200-300 ms. You can get the timing down with some practice, but it will just throw off your timing for when you want to do it again on ICCup. Keep practicing on computers on ICCup (or use a muta micro training ums on ICCup). And remember the key things:
1. Your muta must be in range when you give hold command. Issue move command to either a spot directly in front of, or directly behind your target (this ensures your mutas will be facing correctly, and ensures that they won't decelerate while approaching).
2. Your muta must be facing your target exactly right for them to fire. If it's even a little bit off, they won't fire.
3. Quickly retreat after firing, but not by directly moving 180 degrees back. Loop back by first moving to the side, then back. So each time you retreat, it should be at least 2 clicks.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
Muta micro map
Download that map and try playing it on single player. Sometimes you just need to practice a bit to get the feel of it. (like estimating the distance between muta and scvs, etc)
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EPT
