Considering Mondragon's games lately I'd say Idra will destroy him. Idra already 3-0 ret often lately and Mondragon is right now not as good as ret anymore.
After watching ESL lately, i can't see Mandragon taking 1 game even.Easy 5-0 for Idra. So no need 3rd poll~! edit:thread tittle says BO5 so 3-0 i guess?Or they will play all the games.
The favorite has to be Idra because he's shown dominating results in TvZ against almost everyone (including Ret, whose most people consider to be better than Mondi in ZvT). He also beat Mondi in Zotac cup iirc. Mondi's been around forever, is really smart, and you can never count him out. That said, it's definitely an uphill battle for him.
Idra is going to destroy Mondi. Sadly no foreign Z stands up to him right now, he exploded ever since ESWC. His training finally paid off, only Ret stands a chance vs Idra right now. This is going to be a rapefest sadly.
On June 16 2009 23:25 Megalisk wrote: Ret is going to play a ZvZ?? I thought he only TvZ'd.
As for Idra v Mondragon, I'll root for mondragon cause hes a zerg, but Idra has a much better chance of winning, unless mondi goes F91 on his ass :p.
since he does play 2/3 of his mus as zerg hes more considered a zerg. Hes going to play tvz dont worry. Dinot vs ret sounds nice too.
I predict 4-1 by idra. Mondragon I heard isnt too active lately but since hes a tricky player might see him catch idra off guard one game. I dont see him taking any games straight up though.
I think that Idra will win. I think that Ret's ZvT > Mondragon's ZvT and Idra beat ret recently. Mondragon is Mondragon though so he always has a chance but he may have to pull something out of his ass on this one.
IdrA has probably really improved since he joined CJ. Also i'm sure he reads these threads where we speculate and gets a huge ego boost. He's a good player but i really dont like his personality, he's pretty arrogant and BM.
On June 17 2009 00:24 R3condite wrote: idra will most likely win 3-2 and most definitely will NOT type gg...
hmm i wonder if he types gg to his krn teammates...
I'm sure he does... Or at least I hope he does. Wouldn't show a lot of respect to his team mates if he didn't type "gg" to them, and not to mention he'd want to keep a positive image of himself in a house where he's the only non-Korean.
I don't know Mondi's current condition, but his bw knowledge and feeling overall is soooo much more superior to Idra's. If he's on top of his game, Idra stands no chance at all. Idra just macros/micros well and stubbornly refuses to even aknowledge the existence of other aspects that matter.
I predict 3-2 or 4-1 for Mondi
edit: Btw, when is this happening? It just says "next week" in op and I didn't see any date in the link provided.
Also, I haven't seen too many Idra matches, but if he's anything like me, he'll type GG if the opponent beats him by showing real SC quality.
no lucktard moves plz.
Majority of his losses come from exactly those kind of moves, while in korea, he gets schooled more often and I see no reason to not type GG when you opponent proves that he outplayed you.
On June 16 2009 23:19 HanN00b wrote: One year ago mondragon would certainly had this but nowadays I think Idra will win.
for sure :/ what happened to him? university catch up?
Maybe?
The big difference is frankly that Idra has gotten so much better since ESWC it's hard to see it even being the same person anymore. Anyone who doesn't think idra is raping every foreigner he runs into now is just blind and hung up on the bm.
Idras tvz is his best mu, mondragons zvt is his worst, so im predicting a 3-0 or maybe 3-1 for Idra here. Hopefully mondragon calls up F91 to get some tips :D
On June 16 2009 23:19 HanN00b wrote: One year ago mondragon would certainly had this but nowadays I think Idra will win.
for sure :/ what happened to him? university catch up?
Maybe?
The big difference is frankly that Idra has gotten so much better since ESWC it's hard to see it even being the same person anymore. Anyone who doesn't think idra is raping every foreigner he runs into now is just blind and hung up on the bm.
I agree. Before ESWC I would have bet money that at least 5 foreigner (Mondragon, White-Ra, Dreiven, maybe Ret) and a few chinese (PJ, LX, F91 and maybe one more) would easy win a Bo7 or Bo9 against Idra.
But now I think only PJ, LX and F91 as non korean could be a danger for Idra. I hope he is able to take the next step and play regulary at least at the minor league.
Yeah Idra! Voted 3-1 because I think Mondragon is good enough to map abuse or something and take a win, but I wouldn't be surprised by 3-0 at all. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised by 3-2 either since it is Mondragon after all. I'd be surprised if Mondragon won.
I don't think Mondi can win against Idra, because of the difference in activity/practice time. If he can pull it off, however, we should ready ourselves for massive amounts of flame :O
before idra was in korea he always beat mondragon and he will now. nowadays every top foreigner has the feel for timings that made mondragon one of the best in the past, but now he lost that advantage + hes slower. also he doesnt play entertaining games
This is no different if ret or any other top non korean zerg was playing a pro gamer terran.
No european/russian/americas n and s have ever won a match zvt vs a pro gamer in an offical, and its a bo5 to boot.
If mondi pulls that off it would be more impressive then if ret did it (because ret is better then mondi now by alot).
My head says idra but my heart says "Mondragon is the smartest non-korean zerg player of all time do not doubt the possiblity".
If mondragon want to have any chance to win he must spend some time playing micro ums and working on build timing mechanics otherwise idras mechanics/builds are going to give him some roll overs.
Speaking of luxury..I think Mondragon had better watch some his matches and prepare some all in builds for a good chance at victory. If he is to win that is the most probably way, that and it might put Idra on tilt at the very least, but thats just conjecture.
On June 17 2009 04:07 AttackZerg wrote: This is no different if ret or any other top non korean zerg was playing a pro gamer terran.
No european/russian/americas n and s have ever won a match zvt vs a pro gamer in an offical, and its a bo5 to boot.
If mondi pulls that off it would be more impressive then if ret did it (because ret is better then mondi now by alot).
My head says idra but my heart says "Mondragon is the smartest non-korean zerg player of all time do not doubt the possiblity".
If mondragon want to have any chance to win he must spend some time playing micro ums and working on build timing mechanics otherwise idras mechanics/builds are going to give him some roll overs.
Hey Blackman beat Oddysay on HoV back in WCG 2002 or whatever year it was
On June 17 2009 02:28 Ghardo wrote: if idra doesn't win this after so much training in korea i don't know what to say...
so likely: idra
hopefully: mondragon
(imo)
amen, the pressure is ON! i can feel him shaking in his boots ah how bad it will look if he loses and mondragon wins watching reps of mondragon = Beast zerg.
On June 16 2009 23:25 Megalisk wrote: As for Idra v Mondragon, I'll root for mondragon cause hes a zerg, but Idra has a much better chance of winning, unless mondi goes F91 on his ass :p.
I agree, I hope Mondragon comes up with some F91-esque play to confuse and stop Idra.
I hope Mondragon wins, but while he certainly has more natural talent, I guess the difference in practice schedules and partners pretty much guarantees Idra the win. It's just a pity he has the attitude of a socially-inept aspergers sufferer with a head the size of a beach ball.
On June 17 2009 05:30 stafu wrote: I hope Mondragon wins, but while he certainly has more natural talent, I guess the difference in practice schedules and partners pretty much guarantees Idra the win. It's just a pity he has the attitude of a socially-inept aspergers sufferer with a head the size of a beach ball.
i fear that mondragon has no chance. what somebody wrote in the other esl thread made sense to me. that never his mechanics were that outstanding part of him which seperated him of the rest and nowadays where he is older and maybe not that active because of more reallife duties i think he is mechanical even more far behind compared with e.g. korean b team progamers.
thats why he lost alot of zvz lately and plays more an old macro style relying on hive, drops, ultras whereas for this new korean style like sniping everything with mutas while roaming around with massive hydra and lurker armys you need alot of crazy apm and training. i hope for a close series but i am not expecting it.
idra will never get any respect from any starcraft player - the type of respect you hold deep down inside where admiration and inspiration for/from the player glows inside your chest and only you can see it, relatable in that everyone can see the glow of the player in their own chest. regardless of his achievements (which seem minimal at this point, he talks trash vs foreigners but sucks up to koreans, or shits his pants when he's in front of a player i.e. white-ra ez shaking in his boots)
isn't that right idra? grow up kid. play the god damn game, learn some manners. guess a 24 hour flight to an asian country isn't enough to knock some sense into you. i'd rather see another foreigner in korea than this insecure wannabe korean that is full of himself. so full of it. good luck anyways.
-- im sorry, not "wannabe korean" but wannabe famous player. play for the game, not the fame - you shit your pants when your name is blown up. but all in all, you need to turn ur ass around attitude wise.. unless you are doing this for shits fun and entertainment because you won't get anywhere like this.
unless your FBH, of course. and you're not korean -1 point already and where has mistrzzz ended? i don't hear him anymore. bm more, and have fun so pathetic, makes me cringe.
--
you know what? i kinda feel bad reading this post. let me make it more clear: a lot of people are looking up to you at this point being in korea, or looking down since it doesn't seem like you have changed. if you're gonna let some random 200-named poster get to you, then obviously it means something considering im a noob in this starcraft community. you're in korea for god sakes, stop taking advantage of it by being so cocky.
On June 17 2009 10:45 QuoC wrote: idra will never get any respect from any starcraft player - the type of respect you hold deep down inside where admiration and inspiration for/from the player glows inside your chest and only you can see it, relatable in that everyone can see the glow of the player in their own chest. regardless of his achievements (which seem minimal at this point, he talks trash vs foreigners but sucks up to koreans, or shits his pants when he's in front of a player i.e. white-ra ez shaking in his boots)
isn't that right idra? grow up kid. play the god damn game, learn some manners. guess a 24 hour flight to an asian country isn't enough to knock some sense into you. i'd rather see another foreigner in korea than this insecure wannabe korean that is full of himself. so full of it. good luck anyways.
-- im sorry, not "wannabe korean" but wannabe famous player. play for the game, not the fame - you shit your pants when your name is blown up. but all in all, you need to turn ur ass around attitude wise.. unless you are doing this for shits fun and entertainment because you won't get anywhere like this.
unless your FBH, of course. and you're not korean -1 point already and where has mistrzzz ended? i don't hear him anymore. bm more, and have fun so pathetic, makes me cringe.
--
you know what? i kinda feel bad reading this post. let me make it more clear: a lot of people are looking up to you at this point being in korea, or looking down since it doesn't seem like you have changed. if you're gonna let some random 200-named poster get to you, then obviously it means something considering im a noob in this starcraft community. you're in korea for god sakes, stop taking advantage of it by being so cocky.
wtf garbage was this. Its like a trashcan was dumped on my monitor
On June 17 2009 10:45 QuoC wrote: idra will never get any respect from any starcraft player - the type of respect you hold deep down inside where admiration and inspiration for/from the player glows inside your chest and only you can see it, relatable in that everyone can see the glow of the player in their own chest. regardless of his achievements (which seem minimal at this point, he talks trash vs foreigners but sucks up to koreans, or shits his pants when he's in front of a player i.e. white-ra ez shaking in his boots)
isn't that right idra? grow up kid. play the god damn game, learn some manners. guess a 24 hour flight to an asian country isn't enough to knock some sense into you. i'd rather see another foreigner in korea than this insecure wannabe korean that is full of himself. so full of it. good luck anyways.
-- im sorry, not "wannabe korean" but wannabe famous player. play for the game, not the fame - you shit your pants when your name is blown up. but all in all, you need to turn ur ass around attitude wise.. unless you are doing this for shits fun and entertainment because you won't get anywhere like this.
unless your FBH, of course. and you're not korean -1 point already and where has mistrzzz ended? i don't hear him anymore. bm more, and have fun so pathetic, makes me cringe.
--
you know what? i kinda feel bad reading this post. let me make it more clear: a lot of people are looking up to you at this point being in korea, or looking down since it doesn't seem like you have changed. if you're gonna let some random 200-named poster get to you, then obviously it means something considering im a noob in this starcraft community. you're in korea for god sakes, stop taking advantage of it by being so cocky.
wtf garbage was this. Its like a trashcan was dumped on my monitor
He is right tho, in everything he said...
And BTW Idra, Mondragon is more famous, has earnt more money, has more charisma than you will ever have, and eventho you are most likely to win, that doesnt make you better in any way, you are just being yourself.. a bm little kid.
lol @ usa players comments defending this bm nerdling. idra has this ez IMO... mondragon doesn't have a chance vs those mechanics. Still rooting for mondi.
On June 17 2009 10:45 QuoC wrote: idra will never get any respect from any starcraft player - the type of respect you hold deep down inside where admiration and inspiration for/from the player glows inside your chest and only you can see it, relatable in that everyone can see the glow of the player in their own chest. regardless of his achievements (which seem minimal at this point, he talks trash vs foreigners but sucks up to koreans, or shits his pants when he's in front of a player i.e. white-ra ez shaking in his boots)
isn't that right idra? grow up kid. play the god damn game, learn some manners. guess a 24 hour flight to an asian country isn't enough to knock some sense into you. i'd rather see another foreigner in korea than this insecure wannabe korean that is full of himself. so full of it. good luck anyways.
-- im sorry, not "wannabe korean" but wannabe famous player. play for the game, not the fame - you shit your pants when your name is blown up. but all in all, you need to turn ur ass around attitude wise.. unless you are doing this for shits fun and entertainment because you won't get anywhere like this.
unless your FBH, of course. and you're not korean -1 point already and where has mistrzzz ended? i don't hear him anymore. bm more, and have fun so pathetic, makes me cringe.
--
you know what? i kinda feel bad reading this post. let me make it more clear: a lot of people are looking up to you at this point being in korea, or looking down since it doesn't seem like you have changed. if you're gonna let some random 200-named poster get to you, then obviously it means something considering im a noob in this starcraft community. you're in korea for god sakes, stop taking advantage of it by being so cocky.
wtf garbage was this. Its like a trashcan was dumped on my monitor
go play with urself or something, you obviously don't know shit. wouldn't be surprised if it was idra spoofing. makes you look that bad. yes it doess. if you consider that trash, then you must be one fake ass bitch haha
lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
go play with urself or something, you obviously don't know shit. wouldn't be surprised if it was idra spoofing. makes you look that bad. yes it doess. if you consider that trash, then you must be one fake ass bitch haha
Certainly isn't any worse than some guy on TL taking a personal offense to a player's actions and then writing a post trashing that player with insults that essentially put the poster on the same level as the person he's trashing, except that it doesn't really seem to be any of the poster's business. So garbage doesn't really seem that inaccurate.
On June 17 2009 10:45 QuoC wrote: idra will never get any respect from any starcraft player - the type of respect you hold deep down inside where admiration and inspiration for/from the player glows inside your chest and only you can see it, relatable in that everyone can see the glow of the player in their own chest. regardless of his achievements (which seem minimal at this point, he talks trash vs foreigners but sucks up to koreans, or shits his pants when he's in front of a player i.e. white-ra ez shaking in his boots)
isn't that right idra? grow up kid. play the god damn game, learn some manners. guess a 24 hour flight to an asian country isn't enough to knock some sense into you. i'd rather see another foreigner in korea than this insecure wannabe korean that is full of himself. so full of it. good luck anyways.
-- im sorry, not "wannabe korean" but wannabe famous player. play for the game, not the fame - you shit your pants when your name is blown up. but all in all, you need to turn ur ass around attitude wise.. unless you are doing this for shits fun and entertainment because you won't get anywhere like this.
unless your FBH, of course. and you're not korean -1 point already and where has mistrzzz ended? i don't hear him anymore. bm more, and have fun so pathetic, makes me cringe.
--
you know what? i kinda feel bad reading this post. let me make it more clear: a lot of people are looking up to you at this point being in korea, or looking down since it doesn't seem like you have changed. if you're gonna let some random 200-named poster get to you, then obviously it means something considering im a noob in this starcraft community. you're in korea for god sakes, stop taking advantage of it by being so cocky.
wtf garbage was this. Its like a trashcan was dumped on my monitor
go play with urself or something, you obviously don't know shit. wouldn't be surprised if it was idra spoofing. makes you look that bad. yes it doess. if you consider that trash, then you must be one fake ass bitch haha
People saying Mondragon is likely to win must have been living under a dirt for the past several months - do you have any idea how good he is compared to foreigners now?
go play with urself or something, you obviously don't know shit. wouldn't be surprised if it was idra spoofing. makes you look that bad. yes it doess. if you consider that trash, then you must be one fake ass bitch haha
Certainly isn't any worse than some guy on TL taking a personal offense to a player's actions and then writing a post trashing that player with insults that essentially put the poster on the same level as the person he's trashing, except that it doesn't really seem to be any of the poster's business. So garbage doesn't really seem that inaccurate.
if you were real than you would understand i'm not lowering to his level, i'm taking action for the sole purpose that i don't want to leave something that i think is wrong unsaid, just as i am when responding to your post now. it's not personal offense, if i was then i would've gotten into detail as i have in the post conerning idra.. and by you telling me it's none of my business when it's #1. concerning my post - him saying it's trash (voicing an opinion about the poster's own matters, if i'm not wrong, IS the original poster's business and right to respond) and when some idiot like you comes along and tries to be a cool troll and make himself look good, it does the exact opposite when you get bashed like this. just stop. i'm not saying i'm perfect, just try not to troll so much and stop contradicting yourself - is this any of YOUR business? didn't think so, i don't even know why i bother responding because teamliquid.net will just get filled up with random posters who argue back and fourth , which I'm trying to prevent after this post by not responding. i've learned my lesson. and for your post, i respect your every right on trying to moderate it somehow in making you look wise and me look bad. first of all, this is going to start a chain reaction in which everyone tries to prove everyone wrong. stop trolling please, and lesson learned: don't respond to low-post-number accounts (in which is me also - but many agree that i spoke the truth, does it make me an insignificant character in this community? does it make me look better? it doesn't matter, i spoke what i felt. period.)
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
--
unless you speak korean and understand everything they say, aside from the translations brought upon by the teamliquid translators // other sites. that's kind of a bold statement to make.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
On June 17 2009 12:50 Last.Midnight wrote: LOL it's like HovZ all over again, except I can't see IdrA flying / going anywhere just to beat up some kid.
4 characters in their name, first and last letters are capitalized, American Terran players, bad mannered, and good at Brood War.
Zia has proven how easy it is to fake an identity over the internet...
IdrA = HovZ ?????????
OH GOD!
i can't either. and i can't find out why you intend on posting this. you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh? only reason i can find out why.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
true i guess.. but nothing good comes from it, except entertainment. you can say that nothing good comes from UFC - throwing a bunch of guys to kill each other in a cage.. but it's a SPORT and it calls for it. starcraft doesn't call for that kind of stuff, and when you pass the limit.. it sometimes hurts players more than it entertains fans (unless you're sick in the head and have nothing else better to do, there's some crazy people out there). i'd rather leave it at high level competition with the award ceremonies as the entertainment. and the cheeses of course - which are acceptable.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
true i guess.. but nothing good comes from it, except entertainment. you can say that nothing good comes from UFC - throwing a bunch of guys to kill each other in a cage.. but it's a SPORT and it calls for it. starcraft doesn't call for that kind of stuff, and when you pass the limit.. it sometimes hurts players more than it entertains fans (unless you're sick in the head and have nothing else better to do, there's some crazy people out there). i'd rather leave it at high level competition with the award ceremonies as the entertainment. and the cheeses of course - which are acceptable.
I agree, I love watching good games of Starcraft, it just seems to miss the personality aspect of other sports.
mondragons probably not top 10 foreigner anymore, maybe not even top 50 lols. Will be suprised if he wins one game off Idra, considering Idra is better both strategically and mechanically than Mondragon.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
On June 17 2009 12:50 Last.Midnight wrote: LOL it's like HovZ all over again, except I can't see IdrA flying / going anywhere just to beat up some kid.
4 characters in their name, first and last letters are capitalized, American Terran players, bad mannered, and good at Brood War.
Zia has proven how easy it is to fake an identity over the internet...
IdrA = HovZ ?????????
OH GOD!
i can't either. and i can't find out why you intend on posting this. you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh? only reason i can find out why.
i don't understand are you writing a haiku? your syllables are wrong but so are mine
On June 17 2009 12:50 Last.Midnight wrote: LOL it's like HovZ all over again, except I can't see IdrA flying / going anywhere just to beat up some kid.
4 characters in their name, first and last letters are capitalized, American Terran players, bad mannered, and good at Brood War.
Zia has proven how easy it is to fake an identity over the internet...
IdrA = HovZ ?????????
OH GOD!
i can't either. and i can't find out why you intend on posting this. you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh? only reason i can find out why.
Nothing you say makes any sense and you have lots of unnecessary line breaks.
On June 17 2009 12:50 Last.Midnight wrote: LOL it's like HovZ all over again, except I can't see IdrA flying / going anywhere just to beat up some kid.
4 characters in their name, first and last letters are capitalized, American Terran players, bad mannered, and good at Brood War.
Zia has proven how easy it is to fake an identity over the internet...
IdrA = HovZ ?????????
OH GOD!
i can't either. and i can't find out why you intend on posting this. you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh? only reason i can find out why.
Nothing you say makes any sense and you have lots of unnecessary line breaks.
fuck it, i didn't give up.. ok, so i'll stop the linebreaks.. i only did them so it's easier to read rather than a whole paragraph of explaining my reactions. and how did my post of "i can't find out why you intend on posting this//you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh?" did you NOT understand? if you're saying you don't understand that, i'll put it another way: i basically implied the statement "so YOU'RE the type of person that likes to see gamers get in fights and murders happen on the news over games" since he was implying and getting all excited over the fact that this can potentially turn into a scenario that happened between a gamer named HovZ and another player in which i won't mention. now, what did you not understand again? i'll stop the line breaks for god sakes, but in what sense does what I say NOT make sense?
On June 17 2009 12:50 Last.Midnight wrote: LOL it's like HovZ all over again, except I can't see IdrA flying / going anywhere just to beat up some kid.
4 characters in their name, first and last letters are capitalized, American Terran players, bad mannered, and good at Brood War.
Zia has proven how easy it is to fake an identity over the internet...
IdrA = HovZ ?????????
OH GOD!
i can't either. and i can't find out why you intend on posting this. you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh? only reason i can find out why.
Nothing you say makes any sense and you have lots of unnecessary line breaks.
fuck it, i didn't give up.. ok, so i'll stop the linebreaks.. i only did them so it's easier to read rather than a whole paragraph of explaining my reactions. and how did my post of "i can't find out why you intend on posting this//you're the type of person who gets off on this kind of stuff huh?" did you NOT understand? if you're saying you don't understand that, i'll put it another way: i basically implied the statement "so YOU'RE the type of person that likes to see gamers get in fights and murders happen on the news over games" since he was implying and getting all excited over the fact that this can potentially turn into a scenario that happened between a gamer named HovZ and another player in which i won't mention. now, what did you not understand again? i'll stop the line breaks for god sakes, but in what sense does what I say NOT make sense?
... I don't even know what to say. Your misreading skills make me laugh out loud harder than most things. Do you have some kind of condition?
Seriously why did you get upset because he brought up nextel getting his ass beat for talking shit online to a e-thug named HovZ ... I mean seriously unless you are nextel why would this bother you?
Are you A)drunk 2)a non-native english speaker III)Nextel and should there be a poll?
ah. i did read it wrong, and i took it to offense too quickly.. i am neither of the two you mentioned, i just jumped to conclusions too quickly - assuming there's a lot of pricks on here that would like to see that kind of drama happen. i got it after reading it a couple times..my apologies, i thought it was an instigation. my bad yo.
On June 17 2009 12:46 Megalisk wrote: Wow more events should get IdrA, he gets so much attention.
Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is, he's one of the few progamers with any character.
You can have character without insulting people and generally acting like a tool, FYI.
Like 90% of the progamers in Korea.
"Yes I'm very glad I won, I practiced really hard and would like to thank my practice partners. Nevermind the fact that I just fucking owned this guy really bad, I'm not going to acknowledge it because I'm a pussy who is afraid to do anything other than thank people for my awesome victory, even though in the end, I'm the one responsible for the game I just played."
There is no character, they're like a bunch of robots.
it's called sportsmanship? i don't think you're quite fond of it..
Then wheres the fun?
People like Idra and FBH make SC entertaining to watch.
they are not really comparable imo. from what i saw fbh bm comes of like a clown who enjoys to tease his opponents here and there wtihout having something real against them whereas idras bm sometimes reminds you of an embittered person who has nothing left for others than negativity and is on a complete egotrip in achieving his goals.
you can also argue that a fist punching rowdy on the street shows visible more character than a silent person in front of the pc or it would be entertaining to have slaves in an arena again slaughtering eachother. but still those arguments are no justification. i know its an big exaggeration compared to beeing a hater in a videogame. but what i want to say is that when one person has the harm i can feel no fun or entertainment in it. like when the other player is called a fucking newbie for instance.
though you can`t really judge a person you don`t know close. maybe when he was young and growing he was mistreated by some assholes which affected him to become an asshole himself. plus it is prolly for himself the biggest harm. because imo when you got much negativty in you then dont matter what goals you achieve for yourself you can never be as free and happy as a person who has a positive attitude about him and his environment. i personally wish him the best. till then i also see no point in discussing it again and again or even counter flame him which really doesn`t make you better. but the whole point was that independent from the person idra in reverse i also cant glorify this kind of bm.
On June 17 2009 13:26 stroggos wrote: mondragons probably not top 10 foreigner anymore, maybe not even top 50 lols. Will be suprised if he wins one game off Idra, considering Idra is better both strategically and mechanically than Mondragon.
lol, i'm surprised to see a lot of posts like that, skill level does not change that fast. Idra vs F91 wasn't that long ago, and Mondragon can be at least as good as F91 if he practices enough for this game.
Any thread / post with the word "IdrA" or the letters I, d, r, or A eventually turns into a huge shitfest of "IdrA is BM - it overshadows his SC" etc. etc. for pages upon pages. If all of the anti-IdrA diatribes were formulated into a book it would span a thousand eternities.
When will you white people get it? A new version of Godwin's law is in order, "any mention of IdrA will eventually devolve into arguments over his so called "bad manner."" But ... I am still seriously looking forward to this match!
On June 17 2009 12:11 stafu wrote: lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
On June 17 2009 12:11 stafu wrote: lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
On June 17 2009 12:11 stafu wrote: lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
really, they don't give a shit about respect?
lol.
they don't give a shit what idra says in foreigner tournaments
starcraft fans and players in korea seem to have a little more common sense than that
seriously i find it really funny that anyone can be so out of touch with reality that they think "all koreans will think all foreigners are untalented punks because idra is bad manner in foreigner tournaments" or "all koreans care deeply about the manner of foreigners in foreigner tournaments and judge harshly those who are bad manner and come to korea to play starcraft"
oh, didnt you know fakesteve? korean culture is so sensitive that everyone would just be shocked if they found out that idra is rude to other nonkoreans during nonkorean tournaments and then they wouldn't let any more foreigners even enter the country, idra is RUINING foreign relations with korea fakesteve you didn't know???
they are all angels basically and if you show a lack of respect in any way to anyone they will just hate you so much and think you are a bad man, they care about respect very much and think that how you interact with foreigners in a foreigner starcraft tournament is the ultimate judge of character because of how much they care about respect in their wonderful utopian culture
On June 17 2009 18:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: oh, didnt you know fakesteve? korean culture is so sensitive that everyone would just be shocked if they found out that idra is rude to other nonkoreans during nonkorean tournaments and then they wouldn't let any more foreigners even enter the country, idra is RUINING foreign relations with korea fakesteve you didn't know???
they are all angels basically and if you show a lack of respect in any way to anyone they will just hate you so much and think you are a bad man, they care about respect very much and think that how you interact with foreigners in a foreigner starcraft tournament is the ultimate judge of character because of how much they care about respect in their wonderful utopian culture
What ís your point here? Idra is so fucking bad that the korean scene doesn't really know or care who he is and therefore he can say what he want? The only thing that is saving Idra right now is obviously that he sucks and no one in Korea cares. As soon as CJ start show the slightest interest in Idra, they will force him to stop the BM. So saying that Koreans doesn't really care about how Idra treats foreigners says more about Idra than anything else imo.
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
hahaha how did tasteless get in here
I'm gonna be smart this time and not argue with stupid people
tasteless was bm at one point too thats why i mentioned him.
and if you just gonna mock me then please pm me instead of wasting space.
I was just making a statement not to get into this discussion again, cause I've made that mistake before And as long as I'm not the only one wasting space =)
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
dude why beeing so aggressive about this? the last posts here doesnt look very gm either. i think in general its questionable when people adapt their behaviour just to that what other people think and not to that what they really are or want themselves. i also think he has one point that its awkward when its that important for people what koreans might think of foreigners in general because of idra.
its a flaw of idra and would be either his problem or benefit when he needs to learn to control himself more when coaches catching more attention of it.
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
sweet so your logic is that it wasnt a big deal that stork was super bm when he was at idra's level in the heirarchy because stork is now really good
so people magically know who will or will not be really good and dont hold their bm against them because "its okay kiddo, you'll be a superstar one day"
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
sweet so your logic is that it wasnt a big deal that stork was super bm when he was at idra's level in the heirarchy because stork is now really good
so people magically know who will or will not be really good and dont hold their bm against them because "its okay kiddo, you'll be a superstar one day"
ok so you werent sarcastic.
back when stork was BM, i am sure that he was not very well-liked. and i am also sure no one really gave a shit about him or defended him. i cant imagine you going "HEY STOP IT STORK MIGHT VERY WELL BE A STAR LEAGUER SOME DAY, GIVE HIM YOUR LOVE!"
THAT is the difference here. people actually defending idra, when he is a bad player with a bad attitutde. when he is a star leaguer i am sure he will have the time to make people forget his past shitty retarded behaviour but right now, i cant support him. i have cheered for every foreigner in korea and i would love to cheer for idra like i did in the beggining but i cant anymore.
but again, dont get me wrong. he can do whatever he want. just dont call me names or make fun of me when i do what the majority of the foreign starcraft fans do here at teamliquid i.e. cheer for the good players and hate on the loud and shitty ones.
ilooveoov was a fucking huge douchebag and he wasn't liked during his reign. He is one of the most respected players today.
Savior was pretty neutral with the manner stuff and people hated him regardless during the earlier part of his reign simply because he was raping everyone's favourite players.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
On June 17 2009 21:30 Malinor wrote: God these threads are entertaining.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
On June 17 2009 21:30 Malinor wrote: God these threads are entertaining.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
On June 17 2009 21:30 Malinor wrote: God these threads are entertaining.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
ohm you might change the word "respect" with sg else. I mean, most of the community does not respect Idra at all, not even the part which thinks he's the best foreigner by far. It's really nothing to respect about him, beside his luck (i mean he wasn't a great player, won a tournament which probably would have been his last one, got the opportunity to fo to Korea, where he could learn from skilled coaches and players, and now he's making more money from SC than most of the korean progamers who are 10times better than him, because he's winning like half of the foreign tournaments which have reasonable price-pools). think about for how long Idra was there? And he still loses a lot to foreigners, who have much, much worse practice opporunities and some of them are busy with RL too, or have to quit playing for weeks or months from different reasons. + Show Spoiler +
I'm quite sure there are 5-10 players who after 3-6 months training in Korea would totally rape Idra, as he is now. Not counting players like PJ, who are still heavy favorites against Idra.
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
sweet so your logic is that it wasnt a big deal that stork was super bm when he was at idra's level in the heirarchy because stork is now really good
so people magically know who will or will not be really good and dont hold their bm against them because "its okay kiddo, you'll be a superstar one day"
ok so you werent sarcastic.
back when stork was BM, i am sure that he was not very well-liked. and i am also sure no one really gave a shit about him or defended him. i cant imagine you going "HEY STOP IT STORK MIGHT VERY WELL BE A STAR LEAGUER SOME DAY, GIVE HIM YOUR LOVE!"
THAT is the difference here. people actually defending idra, when he is a bad player with a bad attitutde. when he is a star leaguer i am sure he will have the time to make people forget his past shitty retarded behaviour but right now, i cant support him. i have cheered for every foreigner in korea and i would love to cheer for idra like i did in the beggining but i cant anymore.
but again, dont get me wrong. he can do whatever he want. just dont call me names or make fun of me when i do what the majority of the foreign starcraft fans do here at teamliquid i.e. cheer for the good players and hate on the loud and shitty ones.
i'm not defending anyone. idra is an angry little nerd. I don't know how the hell you can pretend he's a bad player, but he is certainly an angry little nerd. i spoke specifically about the wierd delusions that idra is ruining the reputation of foreigners in korea and that koreans actually give a shit whether idra is bad manner or not
again, 2+2 is not 7 please learn to process what you read before you start posting
On June 17 2009 21:30 Malinor wrote: God these threads are entertaining.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
ohm you might change the word "respect" with sg else. I mean, most of the community does not respect Idra at all, not even the part which thinks he's the best foreigner by far. It's really nothing to respect about him, beside his luck (i mean he wasn't a great player, won a tournament which probably would have been his last one, got the opportunity to fo to Korea, where he could learn from skilled coaches and players, and now he's making more money from SC than most of the korean progamers who are 10times better than him, because he's winning like half of the foreign tournaments which have reasonable price-pools). think about for how long Idra was there? And he still loses a lot to foreigners, who have much, much worse practice opporunities and some of them are busy with RL too, or have to quit playing for weeks or months from different reasons. + Show Spoiler +
I'm quite sure there are 5-10 players who after 3-6 months training in Korea would totally rape Idra, as he is now. Not counting players like PJ, who are still heavy favorites against Idra.
Well for my part, I hope Mondragon wins, more for sh*ts and giggles than anything else, since IdrA is almost certainly the best foreigner right now and upsets are always fun. IdrA will win easy, however, though he might drop one game to a good rush or something.
My formula for who to root for when IdrA is playing
IdrA vs Any other Progamer = Go Idra IdrA vs Any other foreigner = Go other guy
Also what if IdrA starts doing really well in Korea, like becomes a regular on minor league team or even better? Will he still be eligible to play in foreigner tournaments. I mean I think its already quite unfair that a guy who is paid to play BW 11 hours a day is left into a competition against people who have work, college or both. Or put another way that a guy with a pro-license can play amateurs.
Mondragon has always been one of my favorite players, and he's a cool guy, (took a pic with him at WCG Seattle!) so I hope Mondragon wins, but if Idra wins it is just a game, not to mention his among of gameplay recently and practice.
On June 18 2009 01:54 HanN00b wrote: Every thread containing idra is about his personality, which is bad as everone knows. This should be about the game or stop posting here.
Idra 3:1 Mondragon
(10 month ago: Mondragon 3:1 Idra)
Dude, who gives a crap what would've happened 10 months ago. Are we going to predict Savior games now by saying: (3 years ago: Savior 100:0). Yes we all know how great Mondragon was and how good he still is now. We all know how much Idra has improved. Do you think you need to constantly remind us or something? It was already borderline obnoxious in the opening post. Now it's just becoming grating.
On June 17 2009 21:30 Malinor wrote: God these threads are entertaining.
But seriously, what can you say about the match: The (arguably) best amateur player of all time, which seems to spend more time on his college education than on starcraft lately, plays against a progamer. Everyting but Idra winning would be an upset. Mondragon has nothing to proof and also nothing to lose. Idra has to win if he wants to maintain respect in the foreigner scene (and he most probably will win). I am sure in Korea noone will give a shit about this match.
ohm you might change the word "respect" with sg else. I mean, most of the community does not respect Idra at all, not even the part which thinks he's the best foreigner by far. It's really nothing to respect about him, beside his luck (i mean he wasn't a great player, won a tournament which probably would have been his last one, got the opportunity to fo to Korea, where he could learn from skilled coaches and players, and now he's making more money from SC than most of the korean progamers who are 10times better than him, because he's winning like half of the foreign tournaments which have reasonable price-pools). think about for how long Idra was there? And he still loses a lot to foreigners, who have much, much worse practice opporunities and some of them are busy with RL too, or have to quit playing for weeks or months from different reasons. + Show Spoiler +
I'm quite sure there are 5-10 players who after 3-6 months training in Korea would totally rape Idra, as he is now. Not counting players like PJ, who are still heavy favorites against Idra.
you don't know what you're talking about
i cant help but laugh on your posts (don't ban me for it please)
ohm you might change the word "respect" with sg else. I mean, most of the community does not respect Idra at all, not even the part which thinks he's the best foreigner by far.
Speak for yourself. I do indeed respect Idra for what he's doing. He definitly is bm and he deserves to be critized for it, but I couldn't care less for that stuff. What I do care about is that he is the only foreigner left hanging in there in a extremely competitive Korean pro scene. He puts up with an incredible tough training regiment and a language barrier which makes even simple interaction with his fellow teammates difficult. You might not like him or his attitude but imho his effort deserves respect.
On June 17 2009 19:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: like do i need to reiterate that stork was the biggest bm jerk in the world before he made it big
DIDNT DO HIM ANY HARM NOW DID IT
no it didnt!!!!1 is that your point? you honestly cant see the difference between stork, tasteless, testie and idra?
fuck i cant tell when you are stupid or sarcastic T_T
sweet so your logic is that it wasnt a big deal that stork was super bm when he was at idra's level in the heirarchy because stork is now really good
so people magically know who will or will not be really good and dont hold their bm against them because "its okay kiddo, you'll be a superstar one day"
ok so you werent sarcastic.
back when stork was BM, i am sure that he was not very well-liked. and i am also sure no one really gave a shit about him or defended him. i cant imagine you going "HEY STOP IT STORK MIGHT VERY WELL BE A STAR LEAGUER SOME DAY, GIVE HIM YOUR LOVE!"
THAT is the difference here. people actually defending idra, when he is a bad player with a bad attitutde. when he is a star leaguer i am sure he will have the time to make people forget his past shitty retarded behaviour but right now, i cant support him. i have cheered for every foreigner in korea and i would love to cheer for idra like i did in the beggining but i cant anymore.
but again, dont get me wrong. he can do whatever he want. just dont call me names or make fun of me when i do what the majority of the foreign starcraft fans do here at teamliquid i.e. cheer for the good players and hate on the loud and shitty ones.
i'm not defending anyone. idra is an angry little nerd. I don't know how the hell you can pretend he's a bad player, but he is certainly an angry little nerd. i spoke specifically about the wierd delusions that idra is ruining the reputation of foreigners in korea and that koreans actually give a shit whether idra is bad manner or not
again, 2+2 is not 7 please learn to process what you read before you start posting
well as it turns out, i totally agree with you here and i posted almost exactly the same thing.
koreans dont give a shit about idra. that was literally my only point in my first responce in this thread and you start to go off right away with the 2+2=7. in my eyes we agree 100 %. what is it really that ticks you off?
the only difference in my post is that i openly stated that koreans dont care about idra because he sucks (i obviously meant this in a progaming sense). and you also said this in different words by making these statements:
On June 17 2009 18:44 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
On June 17 2009 22:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: the wierd delusions that idra is ruining the reputation of foreigners in korea and that koreans actually give a shit whether idra is bad manner or not
i.e., koreans only care about being good in starcraft, koreans dont care about idra.
im sorry if i was aggresive in my first post, but obviously i misunderstood you since we both make the same point... i just wonder about why you claim my logic is flawed when i earlier stated exactly the point you made just now -.-
where do you get your information from, how do you know how idra does in practice at the cj house, why dont you find something better to do with your time. faggot
On June 18 2009 01:54 HanN00b wrote: Every thread containing idra is about his personality, which is bad as everone knows. This should be about the game or stop posting here.
Idra 3:1 Mondragon
(10 month ago: Mondragon 3:1 Idra)
Dude, who gives a crap what would've happened 10 months ago. Are we going to predict Savior games now by saying: (3 years ago: Savior 100:0). Yes we all know how great Mondragon was and how good he still is now. We all know how much Idra has improved. Do you think you need to constantly remind us or something? It was already borderline obnoxious in the opening post. Now it's just becoming grating.
I dont give a damn about how much Idra has improved. Mondragon is still the much better (with more intelligence and talent) player. Idra can only win against him as long as he is training in korea. I guess about one or two month after he leaves it would be mondragon 10-0 idra again.
On June 18 2009 01:54 HanN00b wrote: Every thread containing idra is about his personality, which is bad as everone knows. This should be about the game or stop posting here.
Idra 3:1 Mondragon
(10 month ago: Mondragon 3:1 Idra)
Dude, who gives a crap what would've happened 10 months ago. Are we going to predict Savior games now by saying: (3 years ago: Savior 100:0). Yes we all know how great Mondragon was and how good he still is now. We all know how much Idra has improved. Do you think you need to constantly remind us or something? It was already borderline obnoxious in the opening post. Now it's just becoming grating.
I dont give a damn about how much Idra has improved. Mondragon is still the much better (with more intelligence and talent) player. Idra can only win against him as long as he is training in korea. I guess about one or two month after he leaves it would be mondragon 10-0 idra again.
LOL. And here I was thinking that those little comments were just slipping out from a little benign fanboyism. Little did I know they were just the tip of the iceberg containing a much more irrational and annoying type of devotion. Hey, I like Mondi as much as the next guy. He's one of my favorite players of all time and has amazing consistent results for many many years. By all accounts, he's good mannered and his cool-guy reputation is even known on this site, where he never posts. That said, nobody ever made excuses for his opponents when he was the overwhelming favorite. So why are you doing it for him? Let's just call a spade a spade. Idra's better than him right now. If that's not true in a year, we'll talk about it then. No need to post in such an annoying and inflammatory tone about stuff that nobody could ever know about.
edit: since reading the trolling guide, I feel obligated to acknowledge that I'm probably the idiot for responding to this guy. But I just can't help myself...it's like that deliciously dirty feeling you get from watching Fox News.
I am not a fan of any BW player. I dont care but its just too obvious that mondragon has much more talent than idra in comparison. If you think its fanboyrism you simply dont know the facts. Following both players over the years everyone knows it. Its just as obvious as the fact that Idra is better than mondragon because of his training now.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Ok, how about we have a poll. If people say no, then I will never bring it up again (I probably won't anyway because it's pointless). If people say yes, just acknowledge the image you've created for yourself.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
Long before IdrA ever went to Korea he was beating Mondragon. He beat him in every event they played in and I think Mondragon was even going Protoss vs him at one point. It wasn't even close between them, is the point. IdrA had good success vs the other top guys as well, so all this about him only winning while in Korea is making me elohel.
And beyond all that, he got skilled in 1/4th the time these other famed "top foreigners" did, and didn't pussy out about going to Korea when the time came like some of them did either. Maybe some folks need to go Amazon a dictionary and look up the word talent, cuzz they obv confused.
On June 17 2009 12:11 stafu wrote: lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
really, they don't give a shit about respect?
lol.
they don't give a shit what idra says in foreigner tournaments
starcraft fans and players in korea seem to have a little more common sense than that
On June 16 2009 23:01 Last.Midnight wrote: IdrA don't even deserve to be casted. I won't watch these games, they don't deserve to be watched.
Yea...nothing interesting about seeing how much a top foreign player who moved to Korea and went pro has benefited from his training and seeing how he matches up against top foreigners now. That obviously doesn't deserve to be casted, no more IdrA coverage please.
I'll say this talent isn't really much if it hasn't harnessed and forged. A person who trains all fucking day even with average talent in this case, will likely stomp the more talented but less mechanically sound player in a straight up game.
And please naruto fans dont chime in with some rock lee analogy, weve seen/heard it already.
On June 17 2009 12:11 stafu wrote: lol @ IdrA editing out the "fucking" from his post, still not learning though. Honestly, when you are given the opportunity to do what Idra is doing, coming out of the pockets of other people, in a sense representing the foreign SC scene, on top of that being in a foreign country, and on top of that having done absolutely nothing on the Korean scene side of things, you really should act like a professional, with some sense of respect, let alone talk all this shit. It doesn't make you look hardcore or tough or anything like that, it just makes you look like a dick. It's embarrassingly disrespectful to the people who got you over there, which is why I believe Daniel Lee was as upset as he was to see that all the stories about how much of a tool Idra can be were true.
I find it very hard to see anyone in Korea giving a shit about the foreign scene if someone like Idra is the only one representing it. He's just embarrassing.
koreans don't give a shit about any of this, they care about being good at starcraft
really, they don't give a shit about respect?
lol.
they don't give a shit what idra says in foreigner tournaments
starcraft fans and players in korea seem to have a little more common sense than that
eh? the fomos forum comments say otherwise.
fans everywhere have no sense in general, i'm not talking about korean fans because they don't matter at all
On June 16 2009 23:01 Last.Midnight wrote: IdrA don't even deserve to be casted. I won't watch these games, they don't deserve to be watched.
Yea...nothing interesting about seeing how much a top foreign player who moved to Korea and went pro has benefited from his training and seeing how he matches up against top foreigners now. That obviously doesn't deserve to be casted, no more IdrA coverage please.
Idra is a top foreigner bla bla who care's. Is he gonna live in internet all the time? It's easy to disrespect everything in front of the computer. One day he is gonna get smacked till death I tell ya , that little prick.
ohm you might change the word "respect" with sg else. I mean, most of the community does not respect Idra at all, not even the part which thinks he's the best foreigner by far.
Speak for yourself. I do indeed respect Idra for what he's doing. He definitly is bm and he deserves to be critized for it, but I couldn't care less for that stuff. What I do care about is that he is the only foreigner left hanging in there in a extremely competitive Korean pro scene. He puts up with an incredible tough training regiment and a language barrier which makes even simple interaction with his fellow teammates difficult. You might not like him or his attitude but imho his effort deserves respect.
ohm, i said most of the community, not the wole community, ofc some may respect him, i do not, and as far as i saw most of the ppl dont either. Some aknowledge him, others dont, but respect is sg else
Seriously I think people defending Idra are brainless and have no dignity. It's like defending Jack the ripper because he is your countryman rofl. I guess all of you are the same as nerdra , how awful.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
On June 16 2009 23:01 Last.Midnight wrote: IdrA don't even deserve to be casted. I won't watch these games, they don't deserve to be watched.
Yea...nothing interesting about seeing how much a top foreign player who moved to Korea and went pro has benefited from his training and seeing how he matches up against top foreigners now. That obviously doesn't deserve to be casted, no more IdrA coverage please.
OMG Idra has upon several occasions said things with which some fans of BroodWar are strongly dissatisfied! He should never be given any coverage at all including coverage of a tournament in which he is participating in the form of a thread on a website about competitive BroodWar where anyone is allowed to open threads!
On June 18 2009 07:07 Skew wrote: Long before IdrA ever went to Korea he was beating Mondragon. He beat him in every event they played in and I think Mondragon was even going Protoss vs him at one point. It wasn't even close between them, is the point. IdrA had good success vs the other top guys as well, so all this about him only winning while in Korea is making me elohel.
And beyond all that, he got skilled in 1/4th the time these other famed "top foreigners" did, and didn't pussy out about going to Korea when the time came like some of them did either. Maybe some folks need to go Amazon a dictionary and look up the word talent, cuzz they obv confused.
But he is an angry little nerd. And that matters.
Pussy out about going to Korea? uhh i think most people would not choose to give up years of their lives to play a videogame 12 hours a day in a country where you can't speak the language. unless you are doing nothing with your life at all it seems like a bad choice.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Didn't he win this event last time?
Iirc yes, final vs white-ra, he won 3-0 but ra played total garbage there.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
All that matters is who is better at this moment. Why does it matter who is more talented and who would win if they had the same practice? The fact is one of them is practicing more than the other one. It's like that in the real world, you don't measure just on genetics. Thats why Kobe wins championships and McGrady doesn't. You can argue that they have the same talent but one just "works harder" than the other for whatever reason. I'm not judging Mondragon for not going to Korea, but to say "Idra can only win because he practices more, Mondragon is more talented" is seriously the dumbest thing anyone can say. How else are you supposed to beat someone if its not by practicing more? Are we supposed to take two little kids who were just born and never played computer games before and then have them play each other? Who cares if someone has more potential if he never actually reaches it. It's a useless and stupid comment that you only said to put down Idra.
if he bad manners fucking Mondragon, the guy deserves to be shot.
because mondragon has contributed so much more than IdrA?
No, because he's been longer in Starcraft than Idra and he deserves that respect for being our foreign "legend" for many years in the past, but the most important thing, he's never bad mannered anyone.
On June 18 2009 20:30 Revabug wrote: Who will be commentating (if any)?
if he bad manners fucking Mondragon, the guy deserves to be shot.
because mondragon has contributed so much more than IdrA?
No, because he's been longer in Starcraft than Idra and he deserves that respect for being our foreign "legend" for many years in the past, but the most important thing, he's never bad mannered anyone.
I don't think Idra gives a shit about Mondis past history. Let's live in the moment and state the truth which is that mondi has been flopping ever since TSL and definantly has more to prove than Idra who just recently won ESWC.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
All that matters is who is better at this moment. Why does it matter who is more talented and who would win if they had the same practice? The fact is one of them is practicing more than the other one. It's like that in the real world, you don't measure just on genetics. Thats why Kobe wins championships and McGrady doesn't. You can argue that they have the same talent but one just "works harder" than the other for whatever reason. I'm not judging Mondragon for not going to Korea, but to say "Idra can only win because he practices more, Mondragon is more talented" is seriously the dumbest thing anyone can say. How else are you supposed to beat someone if its not by practicing more? Are we supposed to take two little kids who were just born and never played computer games before and then have them play each other? Who cares if someone has more potential if he never actually reaches it. It's a useless and stupid comment that you only said to put down Idra.
In europe when you talk about soccer players talent plays a big role and not only who is the best player atm.
On June 18 2009 20:30 Revabug wrote: Who will be commentating (if any)?
if he bad manners fucking Mondragon, the guy deserves to be shot.
because mondragon has contributed so much more than IdrA?
No, because he's been longer in Starcraft than Idra and he deserves that respect for being our foreign "legend" for many years in the past, but the most important thing, he's never bad mannered anyone.
I don't think Idra gives a shit about Mondis past history. Let's live in the moment and state the truth which is that mondi has been flopping ever since TSL and definantly has more to prove than Idra who just recently won ESWC.
whats your point so i guess this justifies that its okay for Idra to be bm? NO When did I said that Mondragon was better than Idra "nowadays" ? This is not what im arguing about. Clearly Idra is in better shape than the former and I would be surprise if Mondi actually beats him considering Idra is playing basically all day, progamer schedule.
On June 18 2009 20:30 Revabug wrote: Who will be commentating (if any)?
if he bad manners fucking Mondragon, the guy deserves to be shot.
because mondragon has contributed so much more than IdrA?
No, because he's been longer in Starcraft than Idra and he deserves that respect for being our foreign "legend" for many years in the past, but the most important thing, he's never bad mannered anyone.
I don't think Idra gives a shit about Mondis past history. Let's live in the moment and state the truth which is that mondi has been flopping ever since TSL and definantly has more to prove than Idra who just recently won ESWC.
whats your point so i guess this justifies that its okay for Idra to be bm? NO When did I said that Mondragon was better than Idra "nowadays" ? This is not what im arguing about. Clearly Idra is in better shape than the former and I would be surprise if Mondi actually beats him considering Idra is playing basically all day, progamer schedule.
It doesn't justify it, i'm just saying he wont magicly become mannered just bc he's facing mondi, Idra is BM regardless of who he's facing. I just think this whole "he was good 2 years ago, therefor he deserves respect"-argument is kind of lame and irrelevent in this certain thread.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
All that matters is who is better at this moment. Why does it matter who is more talented and who would win if they had the same practice? The fact is one of them is practicing more than the other one. It's like that in the real world, you don't measure just on genetics. Thats why Kobe wins championships and McGrady doesn't. You can argue that they have the same talent but one just "works harder" than the other for whatever reason. I'm not judging Mondragon for not going to Korea, but to say "Idra can only win because he practices more, Mondragon is more talented" is seriously the dumbest thing anyone can say. How else are you supposed to beat someone if its not by practicing more? Are we supposed to take two little kids who were just born and never played computer games before and then have them play each other? Who cares if someone has more potential if he never actually reaches it. It's a useless and stupid comment that you only said to put down Idra.
In europe when you talk about soccer players talent plays a big role and not only who is the best player atm.
and what does it have to do with anything?and btw, talent really starts to count among the best of the best, and thats when the whole talent talk starts.Everything else is just hard work and practice.You can be talented, but if you dont train and practice, talent won't save your ass. Seriously, all these german people, and euro overall, flaming Idra are just pathetic - they obviously have grudge against him, but looking for every possible way to disgrace and flame him is just beyond being stupid. Drop it already.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
All that matters is who is better at this moment. Why does it matter who is more talented and who would win if they had the same practice? The fact is one of them is practicing more than the other one. It's like that in the real world, you don't measure just on genetics. Thats why Kobe wins championships and McGrady doesn't. You can argue that they have the same talent but one just "works harder" than the other for whatever reason. I'm not judging Mondragon for not going to Korea, but to say "Idra can only win because he practices more, Mondragon is more talented" is seriously the dumbest thing anyone can say. How else are you supposed to beat someone if its not by practicing more? Are we supposed to take two little kids who were just born and never played computer games before and then have them play each other? Who cares if someone has more potential if he never actually reaches it. It's a useless and stupid comment that you only said to put down Idra.
In europe when you talk about soccer players talent plays a big role and not only who is the best player atm.
What does this even mean? It's the same way in the entire world. Lance Armstrong won 7 Tours de France but he probably won't win this won.
Mondragon has won countless events (so has IdrA) but he probably won't win this one.
You guys are all delusional. Just wait for the games - note I'm not contending my point because I dislike you and want you to be wrong, it's because I care for you and seeing you in error fills my heart with the pain of a father who has lost his firstborn sun.
On June 19 2009 04:22 Ancestral wrote: You guys are all delusional. Just wait for the games - note I'm not contending my point because I dislike you and want you to be wrong, it's because I care for you and seeing you in error fills my heart with the pain of a father who has lost his firstborn sun.
but this is a hype thread. isnt that the point? to try to correct others views and opinions?
On June 18 2009 20:30 Revabug wrote: Who will be commentating (if any)?
if he bad manners fucking Mondragon, the guy deserves to be shot.
because mondragon has contributed so much more than IdrA?
No, because he's been longer in Starcraft than Idra and he deserves that respect for being our foreign "legend" for many years in the past, but the most important thing, he's never bad mannered anyone.
I don't think Idra gives a shit about Mondis past history. Let's live in the moment and state the truth which is that mondi has been flopping ever since TSL and definantly has more to prove than Idra who just recently won ESWC.
whats your point so i guess this justifies that its okay for Idra to be bm? NO When did I said that Mondragon was better than Idra "nowadays" ? This is not what im arguing about. Clearly Idra is in better shape than the former and I would be surprise if Mondi actually beats him considering Idra is playing basically all day, progamer schedule.
It doesn't justify it, i'm just saying he wont magicly become mannered just bc he's facing mondi, Idra is BM regardless of who he's facing. I just think this whole "he was good 2 years ago, therefor he deserves respect"-argument is kind of lame and irrelevent in this certain thread.
No it isn't , again your are justifying idra's bm whether you admit it or not, Being BM has no excuse, and even worse if you present those horrible arguments that "he's Bm to everyone so why wouldn't he be against Mondragon". And yes I think Mondragon earn certain respect from what he did in the past, whether you "give a shit" or not about the past doesn't matter, he's still a very respected player in the Foreign community for what he did.
On June 18 2009 02:16 BigSausage wrote: how is idra owning mondi wtf, hmm probably mondi not practicing enough....
Mondi hasnt done anything big in a long time since TSL atleast and there he didnt do anything other than get #1 on the ladder and then 2-0'd by drevien.
Everyone thinks he's some kind of god of zerg currently when in reality its someone like Ret who plays alot more and gets more results
Mondragon had his great time 2-3 years ago. Nowadays he is nothing special but correct me if I am wrong: Who is the more talented player? A player whos strength is his strategy, creativity and his timing is clearly more talented as a player like idra who just relay on his macro (something that with the right amount of training I think at least 30% of the people here (so a lot more than just hundred) could have as good macro as idra)
Its not only Mondragon: You heard it here first. There are at least a 100 foreign players with more talent than idra. I am not saying mondragon is the most talented of all of these and I do think there are a lot of americans too. So you see I am not a mondragon or europe fanboy.
All that matters is who is better at this moment. Why does it matter who is more talented and who would win if they had the same practice? The fact is one of them is practicing more than the other one. It's like that in the real world, you don't measure just on genetics. Thats why Kobe wins championships and McGrady doesn't. You can argue that they have the same talent but one just "works harder" than the other for whatever reason. I'm not judging Mondragon for not going to Korea, but to say "Idra can only win because he practices more, Mondragon is more talented" is seriously the dumbest thing anyone can say. How else are you supposed to beat someone if its not by practicing more? Are we supposed to take two little kids who were just born and never played computer games before and then have them play each other? Who cares if someone has more potential if he never actually reaches it. It's a useless and stupid comment that you only said to put down Idra.
yes it just matters to show off in terms of identification. otherwise you would just care about what is now and don`t need to point on speculations about "if" and "whens" that makes you or that what you identify with look better.
I also think that something like "talent" isn`t that one-dimensional and easy to measure as some what it make look like. mondragon was without doubt one of the most talented players in that what he was and under the conditions he enjoyed playing the game(beeing a top amateur). but that doesn`t imply that he also would live up with that in the conditions of beeing a progamer and could also add endless more to his own peak.
you can also speculate if there would be not even more sucessfull players of his caliber in the foreign scene if more began playing broodwar extensive with 12-13 years of age back in the days and constantly over a long period of time. or if jaedong or bisu were that great if even more koreans and people of the world would play in their conditions. but nobody does this. because its unnecessary and disrespectful to their real and present performance.
On June 22 2009 06:31 MrChance wrote: Mondragon won against Sea[Shield], so I think his ZvT is decent enough... -.-
Oh, Mondragon beat a progamer one time, so that means that Mondragon is the better player than Sea. IdrA has never beaten a progamer at any point, either on television or in training. He actually has a 0% win rate vs. his CJ training partners, and he has never defeated a progamer in any public match or in event matches, or on iCCup.
I'm surprised no one has noticed yet that Mondragon has defeated a progamer, and is therefore better than progamers, while IdrA has not, and is therefore worse than all other progamers except himself, because he is a progamer, although the worst one.
On June 22 2009 06:31 MrChance wrote: Mondragon won against Sea[Shield], so I think his ZvT is decent enough... -.-
Oh, Mondragon beat a progamer one time, so that means that Mondragon is the better player than Sea. IdrA has never beaten a progamer at any point, either on television or in training. He actually has a 0% win rate vs. his CJ training partners, and he has never defeated a progamer in any public match or in event matches, or on iCCup.
I'm surprised no one has noticed yet that Mondragon has defeated a progamer, and is therefore better than progamers, while IdrA has not, and is therefore worse than all other progamers except himself, because he is a progamer, although the worst one.
blub blub blub . . . yeah coz Mrchance was saying anything like that
I am amazed at the deepness of your analysis. Like you so beautifully and charismatically explained, I was stating exactly that. What you failed to mention though is that winning once implies winning every subsequent game against the same opponent and all players who played him. Sure win for Mondi, Q.E.F.D.
On June 22 2009 06:55 MrChance wrote: I am amazed at the deepness of your analysis. Like you so beautifully and charismatically explained, I was stating exactly that. What you failed to mention though is that winning once implies winning every subsequent game against the same opponent and all players who played him. Sure win for Mondi, Q.E.F.D.
Exactly, I was just explaining that in my post so other viewers whose mental prowess paled in comparison to yours and mine could easily understand your subtly delivered point.
Hope mondi will win, him and ret are my favorite foreigners :D. I really hope ill get around to watch these games even though i know how pissed ill get if Idra wins.
I think if Mondragon has been practicing a lot, he will have a chance. But he probably hasn't (we've seen/heard nothing of him lately?) so Idra will probably win.
You know, we all can agree that Idra is an asshole But he keeps shit exciting. If it weren't for Idra getting pissed off when he loses, we'd have nothing to laugh/rant/scream over the internet like twelve year olds at.
I actually prefer Idra's freak outs "FUCK U STUPID NEWBY LEARN HOW TO WIN WITHOUT CHEAP SHIT!"
Over Bisu's shitty subtle trash talk about Jaedong "Oh Jaedong. Well he's not THAT good"
On June 22 2009 07:36 Ronald_McD wrote: I think if Mondragon has been practicing a lot, he will have a chance. But he probably hasn't (we've seen/heard nothing of him lately?) so Idra will probably win.
You know, we all can agree that Idra is an asshole But he keeps shit exciting. If it weren't for Idra getting pissed off when he loses, we'd have nothing to laugh/rant/scream over the internet like twelve year olds at.
I actually prefer Idra's freak outs "FUCK U STUPID NEWBY LEARN HOW TO WIN WITHOUT CHEAP SHIT!"
Over Bisu's shitty subtle trash talk about Jaedong "Oh Jaedong. Well he's not THAT good"
Here's the problem with that, IdrA is not an asshole.
On June 22 2009 07:36 Ronald_McD wrote: I think if Mondragon has been practicing a lot, he will have a chance. But he probably hasn't (we've seen/heard nothing of him lately?) so Idra will probably win.
You know, we all can agree that Idra is an asshole But he keeps shit exciting. If it weren't for Idra getting pissed off when he loses, we'd have nothing to laugh/rant/scream over the internet like twelve year olds at.
I actually prefer Idra's freak outs "FUCK U STUPID NEWBY LEARN HOW TO WIN WITHOUT CHEAP SHIT!"
Over Bisu's shitty subtle trash talk about Jaedong "Oh Jaedong. Well he's not THAT good"
Here's the problem with that, IdrA is not an asshole.
On June 22 2009 07:36 Ronald_McD wrote: I think if Mondragon has been practicing a lot, he will have a chance. But he probably hasn't (we've seen/heard nothing of him lately?) so Idra will probably win.
You know, we all can agree that Idra is an asshole But he keeps shit exciting. If it weren't for Idra getting pissed off when he loses, we'd have nothing to laugh/rant/scream over the internet like twelve year olds at.
I actually prefer Idra's freak outs "FUCK U STUPID NEWBY LEARN HOW TO WIN WITHOUT CHEAP SHIT!"
Over Bisu's shitty subtle trash talk about Jaedong "Oh Jaedong. Well he's not THAT good"
Here's the problem with that, IdrA is not an asshole.
But then again, IdrA is an asshole
I don't know what the problem is with the massive number of people who repeat this "IdrA is bm / asshole" mantra ad nauseum, but it is far more annoying than IdrA himself, as only one individual, could ever be.
Nerdraging because of losing games is absolutely not the same as being an asshole, unless every single person you know is immaculately benevolent. I have friends who are way huger assholes than IdrA ever has been, and they're still my friends. They do things that are actually bad, unlike expressing discontent at losses very strongly and being cocky in interviews.
IdrA has acknowledged before that he can be inflammatory. But then again, even when he is, I get to experience simultaneous delight and intestinal hemorrhaging of seeing posters constantly misinterpret his actions as being intended to be genuinely offensive and hateful.
Your must be severely lacking in brain power to consistently misconstrue IdrA's cockiness / trolling / nerd-rage / genuinely hilarious provocation of GM-loving Euro-tastic supreme super friendly hippy-love fanboys who unrelentingly pander to their beloved Euro-stars (who, don't get me wrong, are GM and often good at BW) while disregarding anything IdrA, the progamer, ever does because he is "BM."
It is not possible to be so sadly erroneous in your interpretations of IdrA's actions unless you suffer some sort of impairment.
But then again, it is hilarious (at times) to see people ceaselessly rant against IdrA and everything he has ever done or will do because he called their idol a "noob" or something like that.
Edit: If you want to see an athlete who is actually an asshole, look up Michael Vick or OJ Simpson. They're assholes.
On June 22 2009 07:36 Ronald_McD wrote: I think if Mondragon has been practicing a lot, he will have a chance. But he probably hasn't (we've seen/heard nothing of him lately?) so Idra will probably win.
You know, we all can agree that Idra is an asshole But he keeps shit exciting. If it weren't for Idra getting pissed off when he loses, we'd have nothing to laugh/rant/scream over the internet like twelve year olds at.
I actually prefer Idra's freak outs "FUCK U STUPID NEWBY LEARN HOW TO WIN WITHOUT CHEAP SHIT!"
Over Bisu's shitty subtle trash talk about Jaedong "Oh Jaedong. Well he's not THAT good"
mondragon is a fucking living legend. he has done so much for sc!! ToT the one and only clan!!! he even beat savoir. he is playing so many years on top level, no foreign gamer has achived so much like him.
Achievements:
# 1st place, DSC 2on2 Tournament # 1st place, VIP I-II # 1st place, ScT Invite Tournament # 3rd place, WGTour Season 3 (1v1) # 1st place, WGTour Season 3 (2v2) w/ Germany ToT)LaZer( # 1st place, WGTour Season 7 (2v2) w/ Canada ToT)Testie(rS # 1st place, GosuGamers Power League #1 # 1st place, World Class Tournament # 1st place, bw3ever Invited Cash Tournament (50€) # 2nd place, TLT-Ladder (400€) # 1st place, WCG Germany 2004 # 1st place, WGTour Season 9 (1v1) # 1st place, Teamliquid.net Tournament (2v2) w/ Canada ToT)Testie(rS # 1st place, ToT Invite Tournament 2004 # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 2 (2000€) # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 4 (2000€) # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 5 # 1st place, Samsung European Championships 2005 (5000€) # 1st place, (2005-09-27) » GG22BB (2on2) w/ Canada Testie[pG] # Won with team Europe in Blizzard's Mystery Map Invitational competition against team North America and team Asia # Awarded 2005's Gamer of The Year by GG.Net # 1st place GGL Americup # 2nd place, The Ace # 2nd place, TANL-3 # Finalist, Sandlot tournament # 3rd place, World Cyber Games 2007 # 1st place Masters of the Craft 2008 # 1st place ESL
On June 22 2009 09:11 Gaspadin wrote: mondragon is a fucking living legend. he has done so much for sc!! ToT the one and only clan!!! he even beat savoir. he is playing so many years on top level, no foreign gamer has achived so much like him.
Achievements:
# 1st place, DSC 2on2 Tournament # 1st place, VIP I-II # 1st place, ScT Invite Tournament # 3rd place, WGTour Season 3 (1v1) # 1st place, WGTour Season 3 (2v2) w/ Germany ToT)LaZer( # 1st place, WGTour Season 7 (2v2) w/ Canada ToT)Testie(rS # 1st place, GosuGamers Power League #1 # 1st place, World Class Tournament # 1st place, bw3ever Invited Cash Tournament (50€) # 2nd place, TLT-Ladder (400€) # 1st place, WCG Germany 2004 # 1st place, WGTour Season 9 (1v1) # 1st place, Teamliquid.net Tournament (2v2) w/ Canada ToT)Testie(rS # 1st place, ToT Invite Tournament 2004 # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 2 (2000€) # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 4 (2000€) # 1st place, Giga Liga Grandslam 5 # 1st place, Samsung European Championships 2005 (5000€) # 1st place, (2005-09-27) » GG22BB (2on2) w/ Canada Testie[pG] # Won with team Europe in Blizzard's Mystery Map Invitational competition against team North America and team Asia # Awarded 2005's Gamer of The Year by GG.Net # 1st place GGL Americup # 2nd place, The Ace # 2nd place, TANL-3 # Finalist, Sandlot tournament # 3rd place, World Cyber Games 2007 # 1st place Masters of the Craft 2008 # 1st place ESL
On June 23 2009 01:54 Zzoram wrote: Dang, I can only watch the first hour of this, or less, before I have errands to run. Please tell me there will be vods.
Start: 21:00 CEST (9PM CEST) (4:15 h to go at the time time this is edited)
Hmm, when I click on the free stream it says "Your session has been invalidated. Please reload the page." in the video box (yes I tried reloading the page). Hopefully that's just because the event hasn't started yet.. but I fear that may not be the case.
Same validation issue but second link works....are we watching a replay? I saw a replay bar in the beginning and the commentators paused the game right after the split. Dinot is orange and Ret is teal...there is a color key at the top left.
mmh, kind of intersting game, and the commentators where talking about the "little hut with the flickering lights, wow i have never seen that before", just when ret got BCs - thats how bad they are
On June 23 2009 04:48 Darthdrunken wrote: According to the Commentators, Ret lost because he didn't switch to metal, and he couldn't do that because he had no money for factories.
On June 23 2009 04:45 ThatGuy wrote: Ret's losing too many BC's to scourge IMO.
GG.
Maybe i'm wrong, but don't you build bcs for this reason? That the Z has to invest a shitload of gas into scourges? In my opinion - even so ret lost - the BCs were totally cost effective.
Is there a way to watch the vods of this later ? It seems I wont be able to stay up to see Idra vs Mondi....And tbh thats the only reason I tuned in :D Or they release the replays maybe?
I've never viewed a stream of ESL before but this is very professional setup they got. Can't understand what commentators are saying so don't really know how well they are doing
On June 23 2009 05:20 cgrinker wrote: Lol I love this "If Idra wasn't a progamer in Korea and Mondragon still actively played SC:BW Mondi would totally win."
Obvious Alert!
So wait, playing BroodWar really often with really good players and coaches devoted to improving your play makes you good? Get out.
IdrA moves out with rines 1 bat 1 medic to force sunks. Meet lings on the last hill, one ling dies, other lings run home. Mondragon has one sunk. Mnm griuo take the scenic route.
Mutas out forces mnm to run home. Lings trap mnm group, mutaling butchers them all.
Muta harass doesn't seem very effective, lots of scattered shots without marines dying. Mondragon hatches hydras, has evo up for carapace and goes for fast hive. IdrA moving out with mnm tanks+vessel. Takes right path to bottom right.
2 Sunkens and lings force mnm back, tanks siege to take care of the sunkens, 3rd is going down drones are not running.
But, mondragon swarm pushes IdrA's nat, forced to lift CC, lurkers burrow on his ramp. Refinery going down. IdrA's army is at mondragons backdoor but he has lots of lurkers there forcing him to use tanks to clear a path. Lurkerling engages the army with swarm, IdrA is forced to retreat.
Last lurker cleaned from his main ramp.Another swarm goes down, another 4 lurkers camp the ramp trapping IdrA. Starport is on fire.
Mondragon still on two bases, seems to be expanding to the base above his main.
Monstrous plague coats a large port of the mnm army in red. IdrA's nat seems to be perma-swarmed this game, once again forced to lift.
Mondragon is not looking that great either, he lost another expansion and retakes bottom right. IdrA's blob getting bigger and bigger. Mondragon is going to lose bottom right again.
On June 23 2009 05:42 tonight wrote: fuck, who won?
Idra barely won having to constantly lift his nat from mondis counters. He somehow had lots of money saved though cause he was able to continually produce mm and vessel and just would not allow mondi to keep a 3rd base for long at all.
That was closer than I imagined it would be, those counterattacks really pushed Idra close to the edge. I thought Idra would win be a wider margin, but a win is a win.
On June 23 2009 05:47 Underwhelmed wrote: That was closer than I imagined it would be, those counterattacks really pushed Idra close to the edge. I thought Idra would win be a wider margin, but a win is a win.
Yeah that game was super scrappy definately making it seem like it could either way
Mondragon bottomright vs IdrA topleft. Mondragon 12 hatches, IdrA makes a lingtight wall, starts CC at natural.
Mondragon 2 hatch gasses, IdrA starts 2nd rax.
Mondragon sends out some lings to poke at IdrA's wall, chased away by marines. IdrA moving out with small group of rines, bat and medic. Mondragon responds to late, sunk goes down but he has another morphing behind. Idra loses a few marines and goes home.
Mondragon already has 2 sunks at his third at topright, bat gets tentacleraped by them.
Muta out now, joined by 2 scourge. IdrA not impressed by mondragons muta control and moves out with 2 groups of mnm and tank. They camp out on the cliff of mondragons third. Tank shelling mondragons sunks, Hive is done for mondragon, making more sunks to buy time for defilers(?), no he has an ultra cavern and a few guardians out.
But it doesn't matter, IdrA's army is just too strong.
Game 3 on Othello. Mondragon topright vs Idra bottomleft. IdrA going 1 rax FE, mondragon going 12 hatch. This observer isn't very good.
IdrA stopping at 2 marines, starts 2nd rax, 4 lings out for mondragon to chase the SCV. Fast ebay for IdrA, ling speed almost done, 6 or more lings on their way to IdrA. Mondragon has a hydralisk den out. Observers misses a failed runby attempt at IdrA's ramp, all we get to see is the bloody remains of mondragons speedlings and the SCVs going back to work.
I think that first game really took a lot of wind out of Mondragon...he played very well but loosing a long, close game can be rough on the psyche. Idra came out in textbook style in the 2nd and 3rd of course...gg.
Lurkers are out(for blood). Four lurkers burrow far in front of IdrA's nat, mondragon takes the closest expansion as his 3rd.
IdrA moves out while mondragon hides something near IdrA's min only, setting up for a backstab? No he is going for a drop! He dumps 3 overlords filled with lurkerling into IdrA's main. IdrA runs SCVs and shreds most of the drop, only one lurker remains.
Mondragons 3rd goes down to IdrA's main army, he makes one last desperate attempt to kill it with lurkerling but it fails miserably and he ggs!
It's too bad that mondi couldn't have put up some better games in game 2 and 3. Oh well, I think that an idra vs ret series would be the most exciting now!
On June 23 2009 06:09 AtlaS wrote: I still don't understand how the first game even happened after seeing the next 2. was Idra eating a hotpocket for the first 10 minutes?
I hope Idra come's in here and sais "I was on the phone with Tasteless guiding him trough some moves on SF4"
On June 23 2009 05:56 Lobbo wrote: This just in, Idra has improved.
the first game wasn't impressive at all and the second no any skill was even shown, hardly enough play to show any improvement
This game didn't show improvement at all either, huh? All he did was mass and move out, it wasn't like he played intelligently or anything. /sarcasm
an improvement on what? unless we are talking over a long period of time, didn't seem any better than other recent games. the defence of the drop in the 3rd game was good but i wouldnt call much of it 'intelligent play' it was just 100% standard
On June 23 2009 05:56 Lobbo wrote: This just in, Idra has improved.
the first game wasn't impressive at all and the second no any skill was even shown, hardly enough play to show any improvement
This game didn't show improvement at all either, huh? All he did was mass and move out, it wasn't like he played intelligently or anything. /sarcasm
an improvement on what? unless we are talking over a long period of time, didn't seem any better than other recent games. the defence of the drop in the 3rd game was good but i wouldnt call much of it 'intelligent play' it was just 100% standard
Yeah he has improved he's standard game to just move out and win.
On June 23 2009 06:03 Kennigit wrote: These german commentators sure are impartial and not biased at all no not one little bit!
do you even understand german? theyre kinda rooting for idra but hey, you know best
do you even understand german? they kinda said idra has no inspiration, no innovation and sucks pretty bad considering he's been in korea for so long but hey, you know best
On June 23 2009 05:56 Lobbo wrote: This just in, Idra has improved.
the first game wasn't impressive at all and the second no any skill was even shown, hardly enough play to show any improvement
This game didn't show improvement at all either, huh? All he did was mass and move out, it wasn't like he played intelligently or anything. /sarcasm
an improvement on what? unless we are talking over a long period of time, didn't seem any better than other recent games. the defence of the drop in the 3rd game was good but i wouldnt call much of it 'intelligent play' it was just 100% standard
On June 23 2009 06:05 SuperArc wrote: kinda reminded me of Nada vs Jangbi, lol
You mean the first game where Nada destroyed Jangbi right?
I mean the series, yeah. First game, brilliant play from the underdog.
The rest, the favourite owns.
I don't think the first game was that good for mondragon actually, he did make lots of effective attacks but he sacrificed a lot of economy to do so. His drone count was pretty low and he kept losing bases, his 3rd gasses never lasted long.
I'm not saying he played bad but each one of those swarm pushes was intended to end the game and they didn't really do that, IdrA defended them pretty well while keeping his army roaming the map.
Trading armies is a lot worse for Zerg than for Terran especially if Zerg is on equal bases which they were most of the time.
On June 23 2009 06:03 Kennigit wrote: These german commentators sure are impartial and not biased at all no not one little bit!
do you even understand german? theyre kinda rooting for idra but hey, you know best
do you even understand german? they kinda said idra has no inspiration, no innovation and sucks pretty bad considering he's been in korea for so long but hey, you know best
i didnt listen the whole time because i often mute them due to their knowledge of starcraft. but in game 3 they were talking about mondi trying abusive strats to counter idras far superiour mechanics and timings. i think you should try to look up my location and then continue bullshitting.
I never said IdrA has no talent because it couldn't be further from the truth. All I said was that for someone who has been in Korea for that long playing StarCraft full time, the difference between a good and a great player is talent. He's still easily one of the best non-Koreans at the moment which he showed especially in the 2nd and 3rd game.
On June 23 2009 06:03 Kennigit wrote: These german commentators sure are impartial and not biased at all no not one little bit!
do you even understand german? theyre kinda rooting for idra but hey, you know best
do you even understand german? they kinda said idra has no inspiration, no innovation and sucks pretty bad considering he's been in korea for so long but hey, you know best
i didnt listen the whole time because i often mute them due to their knowledge of starcraft. but in game 3 they were talking about mondi trying abusive strats to counter idras far superiour mechanics and timings. i think you should try to look up my location and then continue bullshitting.
well the commentary wasn`t absolute unbiased but agree that you should be aware that you can`t rely just on forum postings to fully judge them because they are selective, summarized towards the negativity and come of twice as harsh as if you can understand them discussing back and forth. one of them started some discussion about possible missing brilliance and talent(meant as cream on the top and not as that "you suck pretty bad" if you dont got it) to overwhelm the koreans he is training with and that this beeing also discussed in forums. but they also said things like "but you gotta handed to him he played very good here" and stuff like mentioned.
ggs and gratz to idra. i think he played very good and deserved the win.
Idra beating Mondragon does show a higher quality of gaming and he is definatly improving my quite a large margin. The fact he was never put off during the first game and kept a hold despite swarms shows and improvement in his general gritiness and game nerves.
I think what happened during the second and third game was that his first win boosted his confidence and allowed him to play on the level he would during practise games.
This bodes well for his future as a pro-gamer in my opinion. But hey , what do I know?
On June 23 2009 07:23 Goshawk. wrote: I wanted drama! : (
I think mondragon losing like this is dramatic enough for his fans, especially the ones that expected him to beat maybe even rape IdrA. May not be the drama you wanted/expected, but drama nonetheless.
Looks like Mon knew he had not a chance to win the match after 1st game so he tried some innovations in two other games. Too bad, he should have played standard tactics, he might had at least a fighting chance.
On June 23 2009 08:58 Avidkeystamper wrote: Because it's not a TL event?
Neither is Proleague, OSL, MSL, etc.
Really? You have got to be kidding me. Oh, you forgot GOM Special Match so you're wrong too. And not to mention GSL, what does etc. mean? Be more clear. And playoff games, seriously you're forgetting everything here.
Point is you don't have to correct every minor mistake, obviously none of those are TL events but I never said only TL events were on LB. Merely that this set only wasn't on LB because it's not a TL event.
can anyone pm me a stream or a download location to the idra mond games? trying to see the games without being spoiled. saw the dinot ret, but had to leave when the main event started TT. thanks!
On June 24 2009 06:32 ulszz wrote: can anyone pm me a stream or a download location to the idra mond games? trying to see the games without being spoiled. saw the dinot ret, but had to leave when the main event started TT. thanks!
I haven't seen any significant improvements in Idra's game. Even when he faced F91, I already thought he could beat foreigner zergs like Ret and Mondragon. He just actually did it now.
EPT
Mondragon vs. 
IdrA
IefNaij vs.Arew
Dreiven vs. Sawyer
Ret vs. 
DinOt
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