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On January 30 2009 02:36 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 02:24 LemOn wrote:On January 30 2009 02:17 deathgodtoss wrote:On January 29 2009 23:34 IdrA wrote:
you kidding?
foreigners are gonna rape the piss out of sc2. the korean system will not work at all for a game like sc2 (at least the direction it is headed), especially not at first. the reason theyre dominant is because they practice 12 hours a day and have build orders for every situation memorized. of course there will be the smart and creative ones like boxer and ra who do well, but in general progamers are good starcraft players, not good rts players. unless they make sc2 as mechanically rigorous as sc the koreans will not be dominant for at least a couple of years.
since when was sc not a rts game?? so ur saying if someone is good at fuckin C&C series, they will be better than korean pro sc players on sc2? mebbe ur just bitter idra Well Idra has a point there. It takes different skills to be a pro in Starcraft than in C&C because of the mechanics. When SC came out and strategies were invented on the run than the creative players that improvised every game and always tried new things destroyed those who practiced hard but just followed their innefective BO's. The replay function from start may make the development stage faster in SC2, but there still will be a period of time when creativity and strategies will own mechanics. And maybe you will think I am generalising here, but the world has more creative talent than korea. + Show Spoiler +Jesus I am actually defending Idra in a potential flame war. Shame on me. maybe i am wrong, but the sport should benefit the one who trains more
not if they are brainless and just copy what other people do. Putting hours upon hours into something doesnt mean you should be able to reach the highest of peaks. Obviously you get to a certain point...but after that talent and ability should take over.
Its hard with bw since natural ability is hard to quantify. Its not like other sports where a person is just naturally fast or has naturally good hand/foot eye coordination etc.
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Belgium6787 Posts
On January 30 2009 02:36 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 02:24 LemOn wrote:On January 30 2009 02:17 deathgodtoss wrote:On January 29 2009 23:34 IdrA wrote:
you kidding?
foreigners are gonna rape the piss out of sc2. the korean system will not work at all for a game like sc2 (at least the direction it is headed), especially not at first. the reason theyre dominant is because they practice 12 hours a day and have build orders for every situation memorized. of course there will be the smart and creative ones like boxer and ra who do well, but in general progamers are good starcraft players, not good rts players. unless they make sc2 as mechanically rigorous as sc the koreans will not be dominant for at least a couple of years.
since when was sc not a rts game?? so ur saying if someone is good at fuckin C&C series, they will be better than korean pro sc players on sc2? mebbe ur just bitter idra Well Idra has a point there. It takes different skills to be a pro in Starcraft than in C&C because of the mechanics. When SC came out and strategies were invented on the run than the creative players that improvised every game and always tried new things destroyed those who practiced hard but just followed their innefective BO's. The replay function from start may make the development stage faster in SC2, but there still will be a period of time when creativity and strategies will own mechanics. And maybe you will think I am generalising here, but the world has more creative talent than korea. + Show Spoiler +Jesus I am actually defending Idra in a potential flame war. Shame on me. maybe i am wrong, but the sport should benefit the one who trains more
No. The sport should benefit the one that combines creativity with practice.
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Sorry for not explaining the right way, with training i meant , true training, like training the things you are bad at, speed analising strategies, spending true effort to reach an objective
like for example: JaeDong said once, paying attention to protoss casters to deduce the amount of psi storms left.
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I heard that wc3 tournaments winings are like less than 5%of mym money they get. most of their sponsors. and wc3 not popular at is was and tournaments wining money are really joke for mym
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this is actually really bad news for the non korean scene i think. hopefully they might still interview players at wcg though, I loved those interviews of incontrol, nony, etc.
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On January 29 2009 23:14 Puosu wrote:
Like said before, SC scene will out live the WC3 scene.. really seems like thats happening.
At least it would if SC2 wasn't coming!
Wait, what SC scene ?
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On January 30 2009 03:05 yejin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2009 23:14 Puosu wrote:
Like said before, SC scene will out live the WC3 scene.. really seems like thats happening.
At least it would if SC2 wasn't coming! Wait, what SC scene ?
I mean the korean one, not foreign. 
And I'm so surprised about IdrA's take on SC2, I'm not disappointed at all though.
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WC3 is the best game ever.. go WeMade Fox! make Wc3 squad with FoV, Moon, Susi, Lucipho!
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So when is FreeDom coming back to SC?
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On January 30 2009 03:15 ixion wrote:
WC3 is the best game ever.. go WeMade Fox! make Wc3 squad with FoV, Moon, Susi, Lucipho!
I doubt they're creating an actual team, at least last time they had Moon he was alone.
The scene is not probably that interesting to them when they have the huge SC team.
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Warcraft 3 is still pretty health in China and it isn't doing too bad in Germany last time I checked.
I don't see this effecting either communities too much. It is worse for the international scene.
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On January 30 2009 03:05 yejin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2009 23:14 Puosu wrote:
Like said before, SC scene will out live the WC3 scene.. really seems like thats happening.
At least it would if SC2 wasn't coming! Wait, what SC scene ?
you know, the one with broadcast companies, rich sponsors, big fanbase and 6 figures a year contracts. Yeah this one.
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I thought they are rich....
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korea won't be dominant in SC2, because there is nothing different from being South Korean and being born in another country. There is no innate natural advantage of being South Korean when it comes to starcraft - this is a prime example of nurture over nature - social perception and future prospects are relatively better than all other countries, and they are the only country with a proper eSports scene
In warcraft 3 at least, the top korean players are not unique compared to the other players from around the world - I feel that this is how starcraft 2 will turn out. South Korea will probably have more pro gamers than other countries because of their acceptance of eSports, and Starcraft 2 being the sequel to "their" game, however there will not be such a staggering disparity between the number of top korean players and foreigners as there is with brood war
my 2 cents
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On January 30 2009 03:21 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 03:05 yejin wrote:On January 29 2009 23:14 Puosu wrote:
Like said before, SC scene will out live the WC3 scene.. really seems like thats happening.
At least it would if SC2 wasn't coming! Wait, what SC scene ? you know, the one with broadcast companies, rich sponsors, big fanbase and 6 figures a year contracts. Yeah this one.
You mean, rich sponsors in 1 country, big fanbase in... 1 country, and 6 figures a (3) years contract in 1 country. I mean, WC3 had more than 100 (one hundred) major international tournaments over the 3 last years, it's one tournament every ten day. In China, in Germany, in South-Korea, in the United States, in France, in Sweden, in Russia etc.
Starcraft has the most interesting pro-scene in South-Korea, especially the contracts, the players exchange etc, but regarding tournaments and money, WC3 was and is huge.
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On January 30 2009 03:28 Hazz wrote:
korea won't be dominant in SC2, because there is nothing different from being South Korean and being born in another country. There is no innate natural advantage of being South Korean when it comes to starcraft - this is a prime example of nurture over nature - social perception and future prospects are relatively better than all other countries, and they are the only country with a proper eSports scene
In warcraft 3 at least, the top korean players are not unique compared to the other players from around the world - I feel that this is how starcraft 2 will turn out. South Korea will probably have more pro gamers than other countries because of their acceptance of eSports, and Starcraft 2 being the sequel to "their" game, however there will not be such a staggering disparity between the number of top korean players and foreigners as there is with brood war
my 2 cents
I do agree with this, but I think that there will be more korean pros in SC2 than there are in WC3 comparatively.
I also don't think that there will be nearly as many bonjwa's in SC2 as there have been in SC, due to the fact that with macro's importance lowered by a huge margin, the amount of people able to turn pro in SC2 is going to increase a lot more compared to SC and there will be a lot more competitiveness as a result imo.
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On January 30 2009 03:31 yejin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2009 03:21 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On January 30 2009 03:05 yejin wrote:On January 29 2009 23:14 Puosu wrote:
Like said before, SC scene will out live the WC3 scene.. really seems like thats happening.
At least it would if SC2 wasn't coming! Wait, what SC scene ? you know, the one with broadcast companies, rich sponsors, big fanbase and 6 figures a year contracts. Yeah this one. You mean, rich sponsors in 1 country, big fanbase in... 1 country, and 6 figures a (3) years contract in 1 country. I mean, WC3 had more than 100 (one hundred) major international tournaments over the 3 last years, it's one tournament every ten day. In China, in Germany, in South-Korea, in the United States, in France, in Sweden, in Russia etc. Starcraft has the most interesting pro-scene in South-Korea, especially the contracts, the players exchange etc, but regarding tournaments and money, WC3 was and is huge.
wc3 never became mainstream like sc is in korea, no matter how many tournaments took place last year. It was ALWAYS the same setting : a tournament in china, 2 days of hardcore playing, the same players attending (moon, sky, grubby, lyn), the very same old maps (EI, TR, TS, TM) and a shitty stream with dull chinese commentators. Wc3 had potential but it became boring and eventually died, get over it. Even if it was played on different countries (90% it was in china) it didnt work out that well in the long run. wc3 stopped to be huge when ESL (extreme masters), wc3l, ngl and many top teams lost interest in this game.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
that sucks 
Will be interesting to see where they all go!
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Reading the comments here makes me remember something Boxer once said
It took 3 years for people to love starcraft. Starcraft wasn't something that fell from the sky and everyone just immediately picked up, it was something that we grew up with. The reason why it started as an e-sport is because it was a chance for people who loved the game to get together, then as it got more popular it became a spectator sport. But these days, when I see Starcraft fans inside stadiums they aren't fans of the game, rather fans of the progamers. WC3 didn't pick up because we never gave it a chance. Everyone just "assumed" it would be on the same level as starcraft in terms of a spectator sport.
When I see Starcraft 2, I am worried but exhilarated. I am worried we will not give it a chance like we never gave Warcraft 3, but at the same time I am excited that we can once again enjoy starcraft for what it was meant to be in the first place; a game.
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EPT
