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On November 13 2008 04:24 Sadist wrote:
why even bother having regionals or prelims?
Just have regionals if you are going to have any at all.... the prelim then regional shit is stupid.
Online is dumb too, just do regionals -------> you go to finals, theres no need to play online if you have to end up going to the regional anyway and it would be more fun because more people could go and you could meet more people.
IMO the year i ended up going, 04 I believe, was the best year because top 2 from each prelim went and there were lots of prelims all across the country so lots of people got to go.
I'd imagine eliminating players online is a lot cheaper and easier than organizing offline events. No doubt regionals should still be held. But by having the online prelims, you can have much more manageable regional events with a set # of players who are going to be at a consistent skill level. Ie. 20 decent players as opposed to 40-60 players, most of which can't make B-. EDIT: Granted I wouldn't know specifically how these things turn out, just considering the merits of online games.
As far as WCG G/F, I'd suggest they take care of some of the small details like ensuring the players have sound proof headphones so that the commentators can actually do their job.
Most of the other things that come to mind have already been mentioned (maps, scheduling, hackers, etc.)
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
actually the point about soundproof gear is really good. It has happened numerous times that a stage match is a huge problem cause the commentators are revealing crap to the players.
Booths perhaps a bit much on the national level but surely soundproof headphones can be used? Great idea. I will bring that up.
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Antihack at online prelim is nessicary, competent admins are another nessecity
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On November 13 2008 05:35 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
actually the point about soundproof gear is really good. It has happened numerous times that a stage match is a huge problem cause the commentators are revealing crap to the players.
Booths perhaps a bit much on the national level but surely soundproof headphones can be used? Great idea. I will bring that up.
maybe not sound proof but noise canceling head phones would be good
just have to make sure that they stay on the whole time
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On November 13 2008 07:21 Machine[USA] wrote:
Antihack at online prelim is nessicary, competent admins are another nessecity
theres no point in even playing online.
Its not like by playing online you win money or a trip or something, i am surprised more people dont think online is ridiculous. Anyone should be able to show up for the regional.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 13 2008 07:46 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2008 07:21 Machine[USA] wrote:
Antihack at online prelim is nessicary, competent admins are another nessecity theres no point in even playing online. Its not like by playing online you win money or a trip or something, i am surprised more people dont think online is ridiculous. Anyone should be able to show up for the regional.
There are always going to be people that cannot afford to go to a regional. Having it online is the only way to give everyone the chance at least (most reasonable chance) to compete in WCG.
Lemme clarify by saying it is more logical to "afford" to go to an offline prelim where 2 of the 4 will go to the USA finals as oppose to a giant offline prelim where 2 of 40 go. Especially since you could eliminate most of that "garbage" by having it online (relatively free) and just get the cream of the crop at the offline prelims->finals.
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On November 13 2008 07:49 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2008 07:46 Sadist wrote:On November 13 2008 07:21 Machine[USA] wrote:
Antihack at online prelim is nessicary, competent admins are another nessecity theres no point in even playing online. Its not like by playing online you win money or a trip or something, i am surprised more people dont think online is ridiculous. Anyone should be able to show up for the regional. There are always going to be people that cannot afford to go to a regional. Having it online is the only way to give everyone the chance at least (most reasonable chance) to compete in WCG. Lemme clarify by saying it is more logical to "afford" to go to an offline prelim where 2 of the 4 will go to the USA finals as oppose to a giant offline prelim where 2 of 40 go. Especially since you could eliminate most of that "garbage" by having it online (relatively free) and just get the cream of the crop at the offline prelims->finals.
if you win the online prelim, do you get a paid for trip to the regional?
Why couldn't you just do both if that was the case.
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Online is very problematic. There are hacks/admin problems every year. Also, it is inconvenient to have to show up online all week long at a certain time for some people.
Offline regionals are just so much easier and solve all these problems. It is also a lot more fun and no one will feel cheated if they don't qualify. Turnout is not really a big deal, and if lan centers/wcg really wanted to they could charge like 5/10 dollars and I don't think anyone would complain.
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WCG in general needs more advertising, hype, and transparency. I, as a starcraft fan, often find myself not knowing what the hell is happening in wcg, and this is suppose to be the biggest offline starcraft tournament of the year. it's really hard to appreciate wcg if one has to extrapolate what happens from the ramblings and rants of third parties. The wcg website also has to be one of the worst sites ever made. It lags and crashes like a mofo. VODs and results are extremely inaccessible as well. it's a travesty that one has to go to mymym.com three days after the event happened to read about the olympics of esport. wcg sounds frickin awesome from the blogs and such, but why dont the organizers tell us that themselves, instead of making the fans wait until the participants have time to blog about it.
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You don't get a paid trip to go to regionals, you have to get there yourself.
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I'd like the WCG site to be a bit better. It's very laggy, crashes, and just seems poorly made. WCG is suppose to be the worlds largest e-sports tournie, but I find almost any other tournament easier to follow and keep up to date on than the WCG is.
I like the online qualifiers because they give everyone a chance but to be honest, I think offline only would be a better system. Sure not as many people would be able to attend, but they are more exciting and ten times easier to referee.
Really pleased you have a dialog with them {88}iNcontrol.
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WCG as the way I see it run in the US has a lot of things that can improve.
Some already mentioned but i guess the more we say this things the more attention they will get.
1) Admins with knowledge in Starcraft IS a MUST, this problem not only happens in the US but in Mexico as well, where they put like 4 to 5 admins to run the entire event, all the games and they know crap about each game, Im sure some people would gladly be admins with minimum payment or even for free. (For WCG this is money, for TL.net this is a neeed to do things right).
2) At online prelims, they SHOULD DO IT with either antihack junction OR in an antihack server like ICCUP, also with refs that have experience at running tournaments and know their shit in starcraft.
3) IF they are not gonna pay you the whole trip to an offline regional... at least help players find cheaper planes/bus tickets, help them with some money or hell JUST HELP by announcing definite places and dates like 1 month in advance, here in Mexico at least this is the only thing they do right.
I think those are the 3 big USA WCG problems that need to be fixed.
Glad incontrol is taking care of this, you are experienced as well and should convince them or improving for next WCG !
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Awesome post. I have almost no idea about how to make WCG better, since ive never been there... but i definitely put my 2 cents with the only thing i really can. Change the "beyond the game" music. Reminds me too much of pokemon, not "olympics".
Then again, i don't know if this post will help or will just be catalogued into the rants section. Great job though InControl. Thumbs up!
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Having unbiased administrators who know and care about Starcraft would be a good start.
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Sweden33723 Posts
1) Best of 5s for the semi-finals and finals. I don't know why WCG has stuck with BO3s for their entire 7 (8?) year existance but I'd like to see this changed. I didn't follow the WCG USA Prelims closely this year, but I think they were BO3 as well? If I'm wrong, sorry!
2) This is a complaint for the grand finals, I don't know if WCG USA can do anything about it, but there has to be a way to avoid players dropping games in the group stages in order to setup more favorable brackets.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On November 13 2008 09:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
1) Best of 5s for the semi-finals and finals. I don't know why WCG has stuck with BO3s for their entire 7 (8?) year existance but I'd like to see this changed. I didn't follow the WCG USA Prelims closely this year, but I think they were BO3 as well? If I'm wrong, sorry!
2) This is a complaint for the grand finals, I don't know if WCG USA can do anything about it, but there has to be a way to avoid players dropping games in the group stages in order to setup more favorable brackets.
Yeah it was bo3 again. Groups are bo3 -> top 4 are bo3 double elimination.
Personally I dont mind the system. Some places (WCG Finals anyone?) do bo1 which in my mind is ludicrous. Bo3 is the standard.. more than that is really nice but I think not a big deal imo.
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Katowice25012 Posts
WCG Finals being bo1 was absolutely insane, I hope you get a chance to bring that up with them at some point in the future.
As an observer, I would like more coverage of the event itself. I understand this is only a national tournament, but it is a reasonably important tournament and just finding results can be difficult. Ultimately I want games to have online broadcasts with a commentator, but I think that is a ways off yet. A site that cleanly has groups, brackets, and replays with maybe some comments on each series, that is updated at a regular interval through the tournament would help to grow the brand easily and cheaply.
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On November 13 2008 09:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
2) This is a complaint for the grand finals, I don't know if WCG USA can do anything about it, but there has to be a way to avoid players dropping games in the group stages in order to setup more favorable brackets.
Just randomly assign each 1st place player to a 2nd place player.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I agree with ya'll that the website needs serious revamping. I will def ask about that. I wrote it off as fairly worthless years back.. haven't checked since then but I assume more of the same.
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just put in a loser's bracket
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EPT
