EPTArtosis's Spirit VODs - Page 40
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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TheNikeYork
United States389 Posts
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pokerface
507 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On September 03 2008 08:22 pokerface wrote: Something is VERY wrong with you! Daniel Lee is THE man!Cmon.... Or is there something wrong with me coz thats bothering me? | ||
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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dickless123
Korea (North)33 Posts
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
while watching most of the VODs from your foreigners vs Progamers matches I started wondering what would be the "maximum" age for someone to have a _realistic_ chance to become a progamer in korea. While listening to Daniel Lee he as a former pro-team manager is especially excited if he hears that one of the foreign gamers is only 16-18 or something (while he is usually very reserved if the foreign player is 23 or even 25-27). For me, this is fully understandable, because he explained earlier that it usually takes several years for a progamer to fully develop and mostly only long-term success in progaming will create an appropriate "return of investment" for the sponsoring company. If I were a progaming manager I of course would be enthusiastic about a 15-year old gamer beating my top-pros with ease. He or she (even better!) would still have a huge development potential and his or her character would be much easier to influence. If I had to choose between a 15 year old playing slightly worse than a 26 year old gamer, I would most probably still choose the younger player. On the other hand, we have a huge conflict of interest here, because it seems quite unlikely to me that there are that many parents who would allow a 15 year old to go to korea to become a progamer, at least if they see a bright future in their own country. So, most likely best chances might have the foreigners between 17-19 (probably 20), even if their skill level is still a little bit below top foreigners aged 23-27. So, Artosis would it be possible if you discuss this topic with Daniel Lee during the next VOD or in a separate interview (an interview with Daniel Lee would be great btw). I think that this also would be fair for all older foreigners trying "in vain" to become a progamer even though they might be too old. P.S.: I of course know that a 50 year old beating Flash and Jaedong 10-0 in a series would become a progamer regardless of his or her age. But mostly new progamers are skillwise close to B- to C-level progamers and need a lot of practice to become A-level (which simply takes time). | ||
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Zidane
United States1689 Posts
On September 03 2008 16:34 Drazzzt wrote: P.S.: I of course know that a 50 year old beating Flash and Jaedong 10-0 in a series would become a progamer regardless of his or her age. But mostly new progamers are skillwise close to B- to C-level progamers and need a lot of practice to become A-level (which simply takes time). I think you're oversimplfying how much talent is actually needed in starcraft. Of course with time, players can and will improve, but there is only so much room for improvement, especially when a person is already appraoching their mid to late 20s. I think 'average joes' can definately make it to C level if they slave away at their computers for a year or so, but not everyone can make the jump from C to A just because they're playing SC. So in short, No, it doesn't just 'simply take time' to become A Level. | ||
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
On September 03 2008 16:50 Zidane wrote: I think you're oversimplfying how much talent is actually needed in starcraft. Of course with time, players can and will improve, but there is only so much room for improvement, especially when a person is already appraoching their mid to late 20s. I think 'average joes' can definately make it to C level if they slave away at their computers for a year or so, but not everyone can make the jump from C to A just because they're playing SC. So in short, No, it doesn't just 'simply take time' to become A Level. The question of talent arises in all kind of sports and can never be fully answered (as you would need the exact same person following 2 different kinds of careers at the same time). Probably twins could help (which is the reason why twins are so interesting for scientists if they do not live in the same environment). One twin would start practicing like a mad man at 12 the other only at 17, then comparing both at 20 or something. Then you could see the difference between sheer talent and hard practice (if it was only talent, then they would have about the same level at 20). But apart from that. I believe your reasoning does not hold anymore for the starcraft of today. Several years ago, the talent factor was definitely higher. There are not so many progamers at even C-level which are not extremely talented. So, if you reach that state then you definitely have a lot of talent. After that, it is dedication and practice AND (and here you might have a point) additional factors get more imporant: performance under pressure, positive arrogance (no one can beat me), etc.pp (you might call that talent, okay). So, it is possible that a 27 year old is better at this than a younger one, but it is nevertheless the case that there are not so many older progamers in korea (and they usually start to slump if they are older). If you argue that Boxer might win another OSL at 29. It is possible (he still has to prove it), but he used to be a progamer _forever_. He didn't start becoming a progamer at 25. | ||
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Zidane
United States1689 Posts
A painter needs both his tools and creative intuition in order to paint his canvas. I think you'll agree with me when I say that there are some people who will never be able to have constant 200+ apm throughout a game. In fact there are many that even struggle to achieve a stable 100+ apm. No matter how much practice, they're just not cut out to be able to multitask the way others can. It's not because they are lazy, or whatever thats just how they are. Does it mean that it's impossible for somebody with 120 apm to be an Arank progamer? No, but I've yet to see a solid B+ player with anything lower. In any aspect requiring skill, there will always be those who excel greater than others, producing better results in shorter periods of time. In regards to SC and the Korean scene, there are probably thousands who try to become pro, thinking that if they "work hard" they can make it, sadly it takes more than just putting in the hours (Although this obviously helps) to become a progamer. It actually means that foreigners are actually quite talented, if they are able to play on par with Koreans who have a structured atmosphere to increase their gaming performance since they are handicapped so greatly in this category. Reason being why D.Lee recognizes this and is trying to bring over overseas talent. He recognizes that if a foreigner can do this much outside of korea, he has potential. Time, patience, and practice won't help the older aging players as much as it would the younger with more potential. It's just a wiser and more logical investment, don't take it as a personal attack on the older gamers. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13076 Posts
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Splunge
Germany925 Posts
Poor Push^^ lost twice in a row with all the coatches behind him... he have to feel bad Thx again Artosis keep it going! | ||
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Aux1
United States780 Posts
On September 03 2008 22:23 SoMuchBetter wrote: progamers needing to start at a young age is a myth born out of the mandatory military service in korea. Its unrealistic to expect a foreign progamer to go at any age above 22ish to be able to succeed because it will take years for them to become recognized and get to start playing some games. When you approach ages like 25-30 there are more important things than chasing some pipe dream of being a progamer | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On September 04 2008 22:57 Aux1 wrote: Its unrealistic to expect a foreign progamer to go at any age above 22ish to be able to succeed because it will take years for them to become recognized and get to start playing some games. When you approach ages like 25-30 there are more important things than chasing some pipe dream of being a progamer that is true. after 25, you begin to consider survival your number1 motivation. parents are no longer interested in supporting you, and if you've not accomplished your dream, you can fucking suck it gg yo so find a real career. | ||
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Zidane
United States1689 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14910 Posts
dunno how they were expected to defeats players like july and nada and kal | ||
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Phrogs!
Japan521 Posts
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