|
|
|
I want to play some of these maps 
|
The first map is like muta harass heaven, but these are all pretty nice.
|
Nah, you can go up on that highgrounds and put turrets there.
|
Some nice lookin maps, if only people would play new maps...
|
|
|
On June 27 2008 01:46 Superiorwolf wrote:
Nah, you can go up on that highgrounds and put turrets there.
And those turrets plus scvs would get picked off. Marines would have to run back and forth trying to defend between that and your expansion as well.
|
I like Voices Lurker and Grief Stricken
|
On June 27 2008 01:54 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2008 01:46 Superiorwolf wrote:
Nah, you can go up on that highgrounds and put turrets there. And those turrets plus scvs would get picked off. Marines would have to run back and forth trying to defend between that and your expansion as well. Yeah im thinking carriers would have a fun time against terran too, it kind of reminds of katrina. At least in parts of the map it does- enough to make it dominating.
Some maps look good, some look dumb, some look balanced- some don't. All interesting though.
|
On June 27 2008 01:54 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2008 01:46 Superiorwolf wrote:
Nah, you can go up on that highgrounds and put turrets there. And those turrets plus scvs would get picked off. Marines would have to run back and forth trying to defend between that and your expansion as well.
O ya I didn't see the natural either, which couldn't put any turrets... but for the main most terrans just make 9959195195025910590190259 turrets and no sane Zerg would attack that even if no marines were there.
|
wow! I love these maps, specially ride of valkerys!!! Im gonna dl em and start playing them tonight ^_^
Anyone down for some gaming tonight?
Hamachi or Chaos on in US WEST ?
InfeSteD[rA] <----- on West
PM ME!!! Let's do it
|
United States5262 Posts
My 2 cents just by checking out the terrain.
Sign: Z>T, T>P just by looking at the mains. Z>P by looking at the first natural.
Korhal Pride: T>Z, Z>P, P>T Hahaha
Lurker: Looks really nice, I suppose Zerg will be forced to play aggressive early cause it looks like getting a 3rd is really hard.
Voice: I like this, has a nice Zodiac feel to it but looks more balanced. T>=Z, Z>=P
Razor: Z>T because of the natural.
Grief Stricken: My favorite of the lot, looks and probably will play like RoV. Z>P and P>=T
Chain: Definitely the hardest to play out of the maps. The various paths make it very difficult for Protoss to engage in battles unless in the center. Thus T>P. But the pathways also make many alternate paths to your opponent so who knows.
Maelstrom: Island map. Hmmm I guess Z graveyard.
Tepolzolan: I like the asymmetry. Natural will be hard for TvZ so Z>T
The Bringer: I could see this being popular because it will probably play similar to Python.
Ride of Valkyres: I don't like this. Very unoriginal and looks like they paid more attention to just design rather than creating a decent balanced map. P>T, Z>P
Square: I can dig this. It feels like a Katrina that's a bit more fair.
Fantasy Island: Z graveyard. The problem with island maps made by nonprofessionals, is they fail to address Zerg's inability to get their 2nd base running. There was a small attempt to slow down Protoss and Terran, but still Zerg will be way too behind. Interesting in the asymmetry amongst the bases.
Corrosive: Zergs will dominate this map. Z>>>>T because of that exposed natural. Z>>>>P because Protoss has little chance of defending that 2nd base.
Rise of Teotihuacan: We learned from Pioneering Period that this idea is just Z>P.
Prophecy: By helping Z=T on this map, you've made Z>P. Interesting idea but I think maybe if the mineral wall only had 1 entrance it would be a lot more fair for P.
Double Edge: P>Z, Z>T. P may have a difficult game against T on this map. T can really hide their strategy until P gets that obs in.
Ruined Heart: Terran map. Terrans can totally siege that natural.
Citlaltepetl: Dynamic imbalances I think balance this map out in terms of TvZ. T has a hard time defending against harass, while Z has a difficult to defend natural. Z>P, T>P. So this is a Protoss graveyard.
Erebos: Now this is a much more FAIR version of an island map.
Can't say which race will dominate this map though. I think whoever starts to control the lower ground first will win. Maybe not, this looks like it'll have LONG games.
|
|
|
Signs: Blue Storm 1.1 style muta rapecore except FAR worse... + also likely P>T. Stork style boringtoss reaver / carrier style will probably be strong on this map as well as terran cliffing, as well as lack of buildable terrain for turrets in a lot of places.
Korhal Pride: I think has potential with modification and more testing. Probably P>T. Needs a little less openness in the middle. Cross positions will be impossible for terran. Looks like it could be a good map with some work and testing.
Lurker: Will likely be a bitch on cross positions TvP, but other than that doesn't seem that bad as Python or Korhal Pride... Looks like a pretty damn good map with some work and testing.
Voices: Extremely shitty-looking blends on reverse and wide ramp everywhere, also fugly doodad placement surrounding bases. Lots of foreigner mapmakers seem obsessed with stupid doodad placement and then don't seem to pay that much attention to balance. Looks unwallable, main lower ground than nat, nat choke very wide, far in cross positions, 3rd and 4th too easy to get. If it's balanced at all, the gameplay will suck ass.
Razor: P>Z probably, my instincts tell me. Otherwise this map looks interesting with some work.
Grief Stricken: again this doodad obsession... meh. Hmm, though it looks like it could be slightly better than Voices in gameplay, but potentially highly imbalanced still, just have a feeling, can't tell which way just by looking though. Still probably boring.
Chain: Bad blends all over on the decoration. This would need major amounts of testing to be balanced. Could be interesting but needs a LOT of testing.
Maelstrom: @above poster, this isn't an island map. Ash ramps are just hard to see on a small picture. Reminds me of Geometry. Not sure about this map, looks boring.
Tepolzolan: minerals are too experimental, map is otherwise boring.
The Bringer: looks like it could become a very good map with some work. really bad blends everywhere, cliff edges, ramps, etc. maybe T>P, though the rocky ground unbuildable in the middle helps... not sure.
Ride of the Valkyries: meh
Square: too many doodads. especially the ones that cause miss chance, those are lame, and have no place in a competitive game. However, the map has potential. Needs testing, and might be a little too tight.
Fantasy Island: yep, z graveyard. Also, island maps are just plain boring.
Corrosive: P>T, nowhere near enough buildable terrain in center, unwallable. T>Z, 3rd gas impossible to hold, unless zerg rushes for island and liftoff means that T can get islands faster than the Z. Z will die in all ZvT.
Rise of Teotihuacan: Author's name is "protoss4ever". this is reflected in map balance.
Prophecy: too experimental
Double Edge: too nonstandard to predict balance. doubly cliffable inside natural, cliffable 3rd, 2 entrance to bases... no thanks.
Ruined Heart: T>P, and possibly Z>T due to cliff configuration and easy third gas
Citlaltepetl: unclear how the low mineral count will affect balance. Zerg will have trouble getting 3rd gas, very open as well. Weird map, dunno what to say about it. Looks almost blizzard mapish weirdly.
Erebos: island map... snore
|
Crack put the maps in spoilers so you dont have to scroll like a madman
|
rofl how did anyone pick Corrosive or Ruined Heart?
|
i thought they are pretty nice >.<
|
+ Show Spoiler +On June 27 2008 04:47 anotak wrote:
Signs: Blue Storm 1.1 style muta rapecore except FAR worse... + also likely P>T. Stork style boringtoss reaver / carrier style will probably be strong on this map as well as terran cliffing, as well as lack of buildable terrain for turrets in a lot of places.
Korhal Pride: I think has potential with modification and more testing. Probably P>T. Needs a little less openness in the middle. Cross positions will be impossible for terran. Looks like it could be a good map with some work and testing.
Lurker: Will likely be a bitch on cross positions TvP, but other than that doesn't seem that bad as Python or Korhal Pride... Looks like a pretty damn good map with some work and testing.
Voices: Extremely shitty-looking blends on reverse and wide ramp everywhere, also fugly doodad placement surrounding bases. Lots of foreigner mapmakers seem obsessed with stupid doodad placement and then don't seem to pay that much attention to balance. Looks unwallable, main lower ground than nat, nat choke very wide, far in cross positions, 3rd and 4th too easy to get. If it's balanced at all, the gameplay will suck ass.
Razor: P>Z probably, my instincts tell me. Otherwise this map looks interesting with some work.
Grief Stricken: again this doodad obsession... meh. Hmm, though it looks like it could be slightly better than Voices in gameplay, but potentially highly imbalanced still, just have a feeling, can't tell which way just by looking though. Still probably boring.
Chain: Bad blends all over on the decoration. This would need major amounts of testing to be balanced. Could be interesting but needs a LOT of testing.
Maelstrom: @above poster, this isn't an island map. Ash ramps are just hard to see on a small picture. Reminds me of Geometry. Not sure about this map, looks boring.
Tepolzolan: minerals are too experimental, map is otherwise boring.
The Bringer: looks like it could become a very good map with some work. really bad blends everywhere, cliff edges, ramps, etc. maybe T>P, though the rocky ground unbuildable in the middle helps... not sure.
Ride of the Valkyries: meh
Square: too many doodads. especially the ones that cause miss chance, those are lame, and have no place in a competitive game. However, the map has potential. Needs testing, and might be a little too tight.
Fantasy Island: yep, z graveyard. Also, island maps are just plain boring.
Corrosive: P>T, nowhere near enough buildable terrain in center, unwallable. T>Z, 3rd gas impossible to hold, unless zerg rushes for island and liftoff means that T can get islands faster than the Z. Z will die in all ZvT.
Rise of Teotihuacan: Author's name is "protoss4ever". this is reflected in map balance.
Prophecy: too experimental
Double Edge: too nonstandard to predict balance. doubly cliffable inside natural, cliffable 3rd, 2 entrance to bases... no thanks.
Ruined Heart: T>P, and possibly Z>T due to cliff configuration and easy third gas
Citlaltepetl: unclear how the low mineral count will affect balance. Zerg will have trouble getting 3rd gas, very open as well. Weird map, dunno what to say about it. Looks almost blizzard mapish weirdly.
Erebos: island map... snore
wow you are really strange. half of the maps you call to boring and the other are to experimental?
so what kind of maps do you like?
also i think you dont know what blends are or you just use the wrong word, i completly dont know what you mean.
and a lot of your theoriecrafting seems SO WRONG.
why f.e. should Z have a harder time getting a 3. gas on corrosive than on python?
cant he put 2 lurkers on the ramp in exactly the same way? o.o
|
Balance aside, i find these the most interesting maps:
Voices Im dying to see how those nexuses affect the game.
tepolzolan Dropships anyone?
rise of theotihuacan Most likely not going to be a macro map, i like it.
double edge: So many ways to be agressive.
Oh, and i think people are being too harsh on these maps, especially without any testing :/
|
about the blends, look at Voices for example, the reverse ramps and other ramps have ugly square parts where tiles connect badly.
Boring meaning it'll lead to boring gameplay. Experimental maps quite often are boring.
My theorycrafting in Z matchups is probably pretty bad but... I think I'm right about TvP/PvT stuff.
I'd be willing to help test some of these maps, I'm just a really bad player.
On June 27 2008 06:49 suxN wrote:
Oh, and i think people are being too harsh on these maps, especially without any testing :/
I generally am not interested in weird maps with spells and hallucinated minerals and lots of mineral blocks, and lots of neutral buildings and weird base setup, weird cliffabilities etc. Weird stuff = often unbalanced = not fun.
edit: also, I wouldn't mind seeing some of these that I liked in TSL3 or ICCUP in the future, but keep in mind that some TL staff will probably have a much harsher view of the maps than I do.
|
On June 27 2008 06:49 suxN wrote:
Voices Im dying to see how those nexuses affect the game.
awww what nexuses? if you mean the blue crystal things they are immortal and just close the path >.<
those doodads and minerals around the main are just to fill the cliff (tankholes etc)
the inverted sunken ground ramps for Voices are the very best possible balancewise, see this pic:
http://www.mapdori.com/bbs/data/free2/SG_Cliff.jpg
with the very reduced available tiles to make a ramp this is pretty much awesome.
PS: I'm on iccup right now, Nb.Crackling, msg me for testing
|
Oh they are blue crystals.. Well, they still block the way so that tanks can shoot at ramp, and i find it exciting. ( if they were temples the p/z could decide between harassing the terran or killing the temples for some easier defence )
By the way, are there any less shiny doodads that wouldnt hurt eyes but would still fill the tankholes?
|
Sign, Square, Voices, Tepolzan are good.
KorhalPride could be good, I haven't played it.
Chain is almost good, but too tight in the middle imo.
Ruined Heart isn't bad.
Rise of Teosomething is just bad.
Morrow's maps are basic and so simple they're playable, but I don't think gameplay-wise they're even that good, and weren't executed terribly well, but he's a newer mapper I guess.
LostTampon's maps are conceptually nice, but too weird for me. I've played Prophecy and I don't like it.
(4)Rov is interesting, but I dunno how well it'll play.
|
I like what your trying to do here, calling out attention to some of the best maps in the mapmaking scene.. But I think you went overboard. It is really hard to digest so many maps at once. Easier then just jumping into the BWMM databse, but I think this list needs to be condensed down to maybe 4-6 maps before it is possible to really have in-depth discussion.
2cents
|
|
|
voices looks beautiful
rov and fantasy island are awesome as well.
|
On June 27 2008 07:32 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Morrow's maps are basic and so simple they're playable, but I don't think gameplay-wise they're even that good, and weren't executed terribly well, but he's a newer mapper I guess.
I prefer the idea of putting a standard, playable map into the TSL rather than a "fun", complex map where people will just incessantly bitch about imbalances.
|
On June 27 2008 08:13 Ancestral wrote:wut?
name of a map at bwmn ROFL
|
|
|
I really like ptar's maps
|
haha Two Counties? how dare you!
|
oh new set of maps, space lotus really really caught my eye :O
I would like to hear if it has some real balance problems
Edit: Im at army, therefore suck doubletime at SC and cant really help at testing.
|
These maps are excellent. Should totally each of them be in a high tier foreign league
|
Sound Barrier and Shakras have always looked really good to me. I think Sound Barrier is a little bit of a wacky concept though and needs a bit of testing to be proven. Shakras, though I still have never tried it, always looked like a potentially interesting map to me.
Battlegrounds looks interesting, despite the 2 entrance natural it may still be balanced. Needs some testing.
Snow Shock looks interesting... but not sure how balance will play out. A gas-only island? Might be too easy for Terran to slowpush along the side. All of expo spots are in the slowpush path, creeping siege tank doom like on Gaia. Looks like it could be very good with some testing and modification though, again.
Avatar: always disliked this map. first map to have spells in it, not something to be proud of imho.
Space Lotus: Looks maybe very good, with some testing. Is the author afraid of reverse ramps? A little bit of positional imbalance. Teal's nat choke looks a lot tighter than purple's for example. However, with a little bit of fixes and testing, again this could be a very good map.
Star Gates: Very wide natural choke, and 2 natural chokes. Mains.. not sure if the top one is wallable. This doesn't look very terran friendly. Or that interesting.
Memory Cell: Afraid of reverse ramps again? Interesting harass potential at minonlys. This looks potentially good.
Last Conflict: looks like boring turtlemap
Pallisdae: island map? 
Mark of the Beast: hmm. Gasless island expos? wtf? Just looks like the gameplay here will be bland in general.
3nim0: Bad blends, but idk if space maps have any good blends for some of these things. Minor positional imbalance: those doodads that cause miss chance all face upward, so most of them are easier to use for red player. Bottom main is unwallable, top main is wallable. So many bridges. This is another map that would need a lot of testing to even begin to show balance.
Morris Plains: interesting map, i've played it before once on a LAN months ago, but i BBS'd so I don't really know how it plays that much. Not sure how I feel about the mineral blocked nat backdoor.
Seven Sins: trying to balance this would give me cerebral hemmorages
Archmage: island map. blegh.
btw downloads for everyone because Nightmarjoo didn't provide them on his list:
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Anyone down to play this mapS?
|
On June 27 2008 13:17 InfesTeD]i[ wrote:
Anyone down to play this mapS?
sure, maybe later tomorrow, I'm really tired right now.
|
I can play im at op tl-west
|
On June 27 2008 04:01 Bill307 wrote:I thought (4)Rise of Teotihuacan looked interesting at first, but then I realized it was gonna be Z>P since Z can take their nat even easier than normal, whereas P cannot because they would need cannons at both their main and nat. Not to mention how much those destructible buildings favour Z over P in general, since P can't take advantage of them in the early game. Fantasy Island looks the most interesting by far, even though it's probably the worst-balanced as well.  Not really. You couldn't fast expand obviously, but you block your main ramp with zealots while you expand. It would require good timing but once it was figured out, the natural problem is fixed.
|
Rise of teosomething is awkward and plays bad. It's just a pretty map.
|
|
|
Anybody up for some testing? I'll be at op tl-west
|
i'm there now but i might have to leave
|
Hmm I'm all for new maps, but i dislike protoss4evers maps, despite the fact that his race is the best.
|
The three I think could be most playable are:
Square, chain, and grief stricken in that order, so i will confine my comments to these three.
Square: I think this map could be the most competitive of the lot. The biggest *problem* I see is that all of the expansions are grouped on one players side or the other. There is very little risk factor in any of the expansions. I think this will lead to many split map macrofests, whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. One possible fix would be to either move or add that mineral-only to the other side of the elevated area (and thus in the middle). Just a tiny nitpick, but the gas on the mains are at different orientations, one is up against the wall, and the other is out in the open. I also don't like the low ground area behind the mineral-only's. I think that since the player is sacrificing the geyser for a safer expo imo, they should get some a benefit of a solid, hard to harass expansion.
Chain: This one is harder for me to judge without testing. After looking at square, the first thing I notice is that the main gases are once again at different relative locations. With those cliffs at the naturals, I could see a t>p imbalance with tank drops, much like lt, but p players managed to deal with lt (most anyways  ).
Grief Stricken: I like this map alot, but it looks and probably will play very much like RoV. In terms of looking for a new TSL map, I think we should NOT be looking to put in RoV 2.0 (a cruel way to say it, but you get the idea..). Isn't the point of this to add a new dimension to the TSL and try to be original? And by original I don't mean doodad infested.
Anyways, if something new feature or different idea could separate this map from RoV, I could see it being a strong candidate.
just my 2 cents, hope its helpful
|
nightmarjoo has changed sound barrier... to be honest with the changes to the natural cliff i'm a bit disturbed that fast drop terran might be much too strong, like LT or something...
|
(removed--posted in wrong thread)
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/sign(final).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)korhal%20pride1.1(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Lurker%20(p).JPG)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)voices1(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(3)Razor%20(p).JPG)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)grief%20stricken1.1(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/map.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)burning%20penis(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Tepolzolan.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)The%20Bringer%20(p).JPG)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/4rov.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)square(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Fantasy%20Island.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)corrosive(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Rise%20of%20Teotihuacan.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Prophecy(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Double%20Edge.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)ruinedheart(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Citlaltepetl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Erebos.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)spinel%20valley2.0(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/SoundBarrier1.2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)battlegrounds2.3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)Two%20Counties(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/SnowShock.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Avatar(n).jpg){kind=avatar}
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)shakras(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Space%20Lotus%201.1(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/SG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Memory%20Cell_FINAL_.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)The%20Last%20Conflict.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(4)Pallisade(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(6)MAR~1.SCX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)30_minutes[1].jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)morris%20plains(n).jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/7sins.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/Human%20Alliance-Archmage.jpg)
