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On September 29 2025 15:24 iFU.pauline wrote:I was kind of surprised for this showmatch. Players should be of equivalent level for entertainment, 2100 mmr against Artosis is good. But Sziky... come on...
It's hard to tell where act and reality, fact and fiction, begin and end for Artosis. If you listen to some of his fans, they believe he is the white Terran hope (the others are shitting on him and his "act" tbf). Is he really trying to improve and play good BW at a high level, or is he trying to get subs to pay for this lifestyle into his 40s with a wife and kids?
Probably a mix of both, but I can't figure out how these series were a benefit to either motivation. Perhaps someone talked smack, and he had to respond and agree to a "grudgematch"; I can see that and respect it, I've accepted matches I knew I would lose both in BW and IRL. But if this was motivated by any belief that he was truly better than these relatively inactive and less visible players (if we look back a decade, not just the past month or two), then this was probably a rude awakening in what I believe he believes is his strongest MU.
The whole situation mystified me and I am afraid we will never get a concrete answer as to whether Artosis is intentionally a clown or not. Maybe I missed it since I was half-watching and someone could clue me in on some explanation for the origin story for these matches. If he was playing drunk and high, maybe that would explain it.
TLDR: This was, unfortunately, truly embarrassing but that is not new territory for Artosis as far as BW goes. Maybe in 10 more years Artosis will actually take a meaningful series.
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On September 29 2025 15:49 Jealous wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2025 15:24 iFU.pauline wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I was kind of surprised for this showmatch. Players should be of equivalent level for entertainment, 2100 mmr against Artosis is good. But Sziky... come on...
It's hard to tell where act and reality, fact and fiction, begin and end for Artosis. If you listen to some of his fans, they believe he is the white Terran hope (the others are shitting on him and his "act" tbf). Is he really trying to improve and play good BW at a high level, or is he trying to get subs to pay for this lifestyle into his 40s with a wife and kids? Probably a mix of both, but I can't figure out how these series were a benefit to either motivation. Perhaps someone talked smack, and he had to respond and agree to a "grudgematch"; I can see that and respect it, I've accepted matches I knew I would lose both in BW and IRL. But if this was motivated by any belief that he was truly better than these relatively inactive and less visible players (if we look back a decade, not just the past month or two), then this was probably a rude awakening in what I believe he believes is his strongest MU. The whole situation mystified me and I am afraid we will never get a concrete answer as to whether Artosis is intentionally a clown or not. Maybe I missed it since I was half-watching and someone could clue me in on some explanation for the origin story for these matches. If he was playing drunk and high, maybe that would explain it. TLDR: This was, unfortunately, truly embarrassing but that is not new territory for Artosis as far as BW goes. Maybe in 10 more years Artosis will actually take a meaningful series.
As far as I know:
Both players get certain amount of money regardless of the outcome.
Each win also nets certain amount. RT said they are friends (or friendly).
Gypsy's experiment and his own money. Has RT ever backed down from a challenge?
It was fun to watch even if one sided.
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I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing.
The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity.
To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will.
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On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote:
I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing.
The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity.
To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will.
very well written Last.Midnight !
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On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote:
I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing.
The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity.
To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will.
Honestly, being couched while your attention spread wide on a stream, etc.
is a pretty hard challenge. Further, putting all the knowledge, experience and work or time investment into the game to some perspective reinforced by some margin of players gameplay in selective series shows the same lack of perspective you claim him to have.
Over the years Artosis has had many good results as well, didnt he beat Khala and advanced in a tournament of Castermuse? Didnt he beat some Pros from time to time??
Further, it is by far more challenging to play competitive, when your whole persona, a wide margin of how you think, play and etc. is widely known and public speech.
Last point is that maybe Artosis isnt the best series player, or what you expect from a player, but doesnt mean he isnt a great caster that understands the game and a great player as well in his own right.
And
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He's an EXCELLENT caster. The first to do it for a western audience, the most experienced, the OG, the GOAT. I watch every video on Artosis Casts.
And of course he's a good player. He's A rank - sometimes S.
I'm simply talking about something that, unfortunately, prevents him from being as great as he could be and leads to results like this series, or never doing well in BSL. I'm not sure what the solution is.
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On September 29 2025 12:46 prosatan wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The games ended very quickly ... without Sziky doing 4 pool or anything like that...
at least with Ret he put up a bit of resistance and fought a few battles..
is there VOD link for sziky vs arty?
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Netherlands5898 Posts
The reason I mentioned Scan, is because he's one of the few players Artosis respects skill and knowledge wise, and Scan has actually made Artosis a better player.
As insane and terrible Artosis' chat is on average. his chat still provides many helpful insights and tips, that could make Artosis be a better gamer without an external coach coming in, but like you said. Artosis won't have it. To coach Artosis you need to be a respected and (far) better player than he is and be proficient enough in English. There is maybe 1-3 people that fit that criteria, Scan being one of them.
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On September 29 2025 21:13 Peeano wrote:
The reason I mentioned Scan, is because he's one of the few players Artosis respects skill and knowledge wise, and Scan has actually made Artosis a better player.
As insane and terrible Artosis' chat is on average. his chat still provides many helpful insights and tips, that could make Artosis be a better gamer without an external coach coming in, but like you said. Artosis won't have it. To coach Artosis you need to be a respected and (far) better player than he is and be proficient enough in English. There is maybe 1-3 people that fit that criteria, Scan being one of them.
He cut gypsy's coaching short saying "oh ok I get it" after like 15 minutes, indicating he didn't need to review another rep or watch gypsy play a TvZ despite gypsy clearly feeling otherwise. He did incorporate some ideas and play his next TvZ better, but he was still making a ton of errors that gypsy pointed out that could have been addressed with more time.
He's a free man - he can do what he wants. His stream is a gigantic success and he's built a dream life for himself. He doesn't HAVE to listen to any of us or do anything different, but I find it hard to believe he wants to be a serious player when he doesn't prep, drill, or even let top foreign Terrans finish a coaching session on THEIR terms. It feels like the 'I'm working on my gameplay' angle is just part of the brand/engagement strategy, since who wants to watch a stream of a player who's given up on progress?
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TBH, Artosis(and many other players) simply needs a bit more humility in the choice of strategies he's going for.
It's been an ongoing process for him, and maybe he'll get there one day.
The simple truth is that your best tournament performance will be reached when you go for strategies that are simple enough for you to execute very well, while requiring the next level of skill to stop.
I don't necessarily mean pure cheese, but there is such low hanging fruit in every matchup, for every race, at every skill range.
They plateau and are not good for long-term practice/development, but you still need to be very familiar with them to execute them properly during competition.
At the very least, one should always have in their arsenal the best and most annoying timings that their mechanics allow them to pull off.
And the humility to skip the ones that you can't, when there are stakes.
And the humility to be extra defensive on the macro openers/choose openers accordingly, if you can't handle every possible all-in comfortably with your micro...and so on.
If your pride doesn't allow you to do that? Well, kill your wrists and arms, and study, and get good. Can't exactly half ass getting to the next level.
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Asmongold of BW strikes ba... oh wait !
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Why are we spoilering in a live report thread????
Fun event btw and it got good viewership across Gypsy+Artosis+Ret streams, hope to see more matches like this.
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On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote:
I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing.
The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity.
To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will.
Nyoken was a better player and was a better BW caster. I'm pretty sure that Artosis has never been able to say "this is what the player I'm currently casting did when they played me on the ladder in this map".
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Netherlands5898 Posts
On September 30 2025 00:53 iRkSupperman wrote:
Why are we spoilering in a live report thread????
Fun event btw and it got good viewership across Gypsy+Artosis+Ret streams, hope to see more matches like this.
It's in General, not in Tourneys, so this isn't an LR thread.
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Netherlands5898 Posts
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+ Show Spoiler +What everyone expected Ret is one of the best foreigner to ever touch StarCraft/StarCraft2 not so successful but very high in the ladder
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EPT
