EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/gfISqg0.jpeg)
Who: Artosis & Ret
When: Saturday, Sep 27 11:00 AM EST / 17:00 CET
Where: https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
Why: To relive the glory days
Artosis vs Ret Showmatch
| Forum Index > BW General |
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9556 Posts
Who: Artosis & Ret When: Saturday, Sep 27 11:00 AM EST / 17:00 CET Where: https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93 Why: To relive the glory days
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EndingLife
United States1605 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1569 Posts
On September 24 2025 03:35 EndingLife wrote: Nice!!! Can't wait to watch. I'd be surprised if Artosis wins a game or two. Prepare ur twitch chips! Both A rank atm. | ||
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
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TwiggyWan
France342 Posts
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Timebon3s
Norway772 Posts
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Fazers
737 Posts
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Toshinou-Kyouko
Philippines678 Posts
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Ikirouta
Finland746 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3772 Posts
Poll: Who do you think will win? Ret (28) Ret, but he will have to work for it (19) 47 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Ret | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
 RetPlay strong the first game to set the tone and win the rest with mind games and troll builds,. | ||
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Copymizer
Denmark2108 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States602 Posts
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ChApFoU
France2984 Posts
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LML
Germany1794 Posts
On September 24 2025 14:45 Ikirouta wrote: if ret has played more than 50 games in the last 2 weeks im favoring him I'm pretty sure I've seen him stream a lot of BW in recent months. So he should be in shape. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7023 Posts
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Sorusaba
310 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7023 Posts
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UltrA
48 Posts
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Orite
Germany143 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1986 Posts
On September 24 2025 03:35 EndingLife wrote: Nice!!! Can't wait to watch. I'd be surprised if Artosis wins a game or two. He's not favored? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46424 Posts
Ret is probably favored, but I'd love to see both players win a few games | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5541 Posts
Safe to assume this is ret? | ||
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Puosu
7060 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19384 Posts
 Artosis! | ||
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goody153
44302 Posts
On September 26 2025 06:12 BisuDagger wrote: I love Ret, but I’m gonna throw my support behind Dan cause he’s really a Protoss at heart. You got this Artosis!LMAAAO | ||
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elKa-ThE-FeArEd
Sweden177 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1569 Posts
On September 26 2025 03:23 jimminy_kriket wrote: https://cwal.gg/players/gateway/20/player/retje Safe to assume this is ret? Yes. And RT: https://cwal.gg/players/gateway/30/player/valks | ||
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Pippah
Denmark356 Posts
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maybe
264 Posts
Two months is not enough to get back in shape after a 15? year break but he's looking strong. In my eyes (I could be completely wrong) Ret was always the more talented player and Artosis the hard terran worker. Rets gonna win but hoping for fun games. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway772 Posts
It will be fun as hell, that’s for sure :D | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
things are looking very bad for artosis... | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
i knew ret would win, but this is complete domination... | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
I just tuned in for the last game, but that was very sad. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
it is over.... my god...this was brutal | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 28 2025 02:35 RogueTheGOAT wrote: + Show Spoiler + I just tuned in for the last game, but that was very sad. + Show Spoiler + saw all games from 1-1 and i feel bad for arty  | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
both are very respectful in the interview! Congrats Ret! Poor arty | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 6-1? I if true, Artosis should think about flying in Scan and getting some lessons again. After he took lessons he did improve quite a bit. This is not meant to take away from Ret's performance, but Artosis played and still plays a ton of BW and it doesn't seem like he got any better after he moved to Canada. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
8-1. Artosis lost worse than Brazil. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 28 2025 02:49 Peeano wrote: So the final score was? + Show Spoiler + 6-1? I if true, Artosis should think about flying in Scan and getting some lessons again. After he took lessons he did improve quite a bit. This is not meant to take away from Ret's performance, but Artosis played and still plays a ton of BW and it doesn't seem like he got any better after he moved to Canada. + Show Spoiler + 8-1 Peeano... | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
I almost feel bad for Arotsis, lmao | ||
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Stopthevirtualaddict
49 Posts
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A.Alm
Sweden558 Posts
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Highgamer
1470 Posts
The score is clear and just overall, no doubt, but with just a few changes in Artosis' play it could have looked much less one-sided. The worsening score sure did some psychological damage and made Arty not play his best. Apart from clear blunders due to that, Gypsy did a good job I think by pointing at rather easy to fix problems and inflexibilities (medic-count, over-turreting), and situations where it was actually pretty close and one better move could've gotten Artosis one or two more wins. 6-3 would've felt very different. I've seen Artosis play quite impressive TvZ lategame where he used tons of irradiates, it's just that Ret is currently probably 100-200 points above him, a little faster and got stronger and stronger slightly with each game (win). It's really hard to play better on the fly in a series if a slightly stronger opponent has figured you out. He just needed some on the fly coaching by Flash like Barracks. Great show. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States602 Posts
man arty has no chin at all. Loses one game and falls apart. It's just like, small stuff. His macro is all there, he makes the right stuff and moves out at the right time, but his control is just... Oof man. | ||
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Azhi_Dahaki
11 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
but it will be so late here in Romania..... | ||
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Phyanketto
United States602 Posts
On September 28 2025 14:54 prosatan wrote: rt needs the advantage lolDon't forget we also have Artosis vs Sziky tonight but it will be so late here in Romania..... | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 28 2025 15:29 Phyanketto wrote: rt needs the advantage lol | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines814 Posts
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atrox_
United Kingdom1711 Posts
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 28 2025 19:07 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: we need more of these top non-korean 9-game ultimate battle style matches Artosis might be the most popular non-Korean Brood War player, but their isn't a world in which he's among the top based on skill. To quote iNcontroL: "Artosis is the most famous 2004/5 3rd or 4th place perennial WCG runner up for the United States of America." | ||
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sophisticated
61 Posts
On September 28 2025 20:04 prosatan wrote: Thanks Gipsy for commentating ! And thanks Hawk for being co-caster! | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 29 2025 06:11 sophisticated wrote: And thanks Hawk for being co-caster! +1  | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Sziky wins 3-0 ! Artosis didn't have a chance man.... he just cannot play... | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
The games ended very quickly ... without Sziky doing 4 pool or anything like that... at least with Ret he put up a bit of resistance and fought a few battles.. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On September 28 2025 02:49 Peeano wrote: So the final score was? + Show Spoiler + 6-1? I if true, Artosis should think about flying in Scan and getting some lessons again. After he took lessons he did improve quite a bit. This is not meant to take away from Ret's performance, but Artosis played and still plays a ton of BW and it doesn't seem like he got any better after he moved to Canada. hard to focus on improvement when you have AI voices literally screaming in your ear all game long | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 29 2025 15:04 -NegativeZero- wrote: hard to focus on improvement when you have AI voices literally screaming in your ear all game long agree with this! but , at least , during the games , the TTS was muted ! Thanks god !! | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1748 Posts
I was kind of surprised for this showmatch. Players should be of equivalent level for entertainment, 2100 mmr against Artosis is good. But Sziky... come on... | ||
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Jealous
10365 Posts
On September 29 2025 15:24 iFU.pauline wrote: I was kind of surprised for this showmatch. Players should be of equivalent level for entertainment, 2100 mmr against Artosis is good. But Sziky... come on... It's hard to tell where act and reality, fact and fiction, begin and end for Artosis. If you listen to some of his fans, they believe he is the white Terran hope (the others are shitting on him and his "act" tbf). Is he really trying to improve and play good BW at a high level, or is he trying to get subs to pay for this lifestyle into his 40s with a wife and kids? Probably a mix of both, but I can't figure out how these series were a benefit to either motivation. Perhaps someone talked smack, and he had to respond and agree to a "grudgematch"; I can see that and respect it, I've accepted matches I knew I would lose both in BW and IRL. But if this was motivated by any belief that he was truly better than these relatively inactive and less visible players (if we look back a decade, not just the past month or two), then this was probably a rude awakening in what I believe he believes is his strongest MU. The whole situation mystified me and I am afraid we will never get a concrete answer as to whether Artosis is intentionally a clown or not. Maybe I missed it since I was half-watching and someone could clue me in on some explanation for the origin story for these matches. If he was playing drunk and high, maybe that would explain it. TLDR: This was, unfortunately, truly embarrassing but that is not new territory for Artosis as far as BW goes. Maybe in 10 more years Artosis will actually take a meaningful series. | ||
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rrewfsdjwefds
1 Post
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Jealous
10365 Posts
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jztjghhgfdhgf
1 Post
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1569 Posts
On September 29 2025 15:49 Jealous wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2025 15:24 iFU.pauline wrote: + Show Spoiler + I was kind of surprised for this showmatch. Players should be of equivalent level for entertainment, 2100 mmr against Artosis is good. But Sziky... come on... It's hard to tell where act and reality, fact and fiction, begin and end for Artosis. If you listen to some of his fans, they believe he is the white Terran hope (the others are shitting on him and his "act" tbf). Is he really trying to improve and play good BW at a high level, or is he trying to get subs to pay for this lifestyle into his 40s with a wife and kids? Probably a mix of both, but I can't figure out how these series were a benefit to either motivation. Perhaps someone talked smack, and he had to respond and agree to a "grudgematch"; I can see that and respect it, I've accepted matches I knew I would lose both in BW and IRL. But if this was motivated by any belief that he was truly better than these relatively inactive and less visible players (if we look back a decade, not just the past month or two), then this was probably a rude awakening in what I believe he believes is his strongest MU. The whole situation mystified me and I am afraid we will never get a concrete answer as to whether Artosis is intentionally a clown or not. Maybe I missed it since I was half-watching and someone could clue me in on some explanation for the origin story for these matches. If he was playing drunk and high, maybe that would explain it. TLDR: This was, unfortunately, truly embarrassing but that is not new territory for Artosis as far as BW goes. Maybe in 10 more years Artosis will actually take a meaningful series. As far as I know: Both players get certain amount of money regardless of the outcome. Each win also nets certain amount. RT said they are friends (or friendly). Gypsy's experiment and his own money. Has RT ever backed down from a challenge? It was fun to watch even if one sided. | ||
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Last.Midnight
Australia906 Posts
The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity. To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote: I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing. The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity. To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will. very well written Last.Midnight ! | ||
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Stopthevirtualaddict
49 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote: I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing. The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity. To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will. Honestly, being couched while your attention spread wide on a stream, etc. is a pretty hard challenge. Further, putting all the knowledge, experience and work or time investment into the game to some perspective reinforced by some margin of players gameplay in selective series shows the same lack of perspective you claim him to have. Over the years Artosis has had many good results as well, didnt he beat Khala and advanced in a tournament of Castermuse? Didnt he beat some Pros from time to time?? Further, it is by far more challenging to play competitive, when your whole persona, a wide margin of how you think, play and etc. is widely known and public speech. Last point is that maybe Artosis isnt the best series player, or what you expect from a player, but doesnt mean he isnt a great caster that understands the game and a great player as well in his own right. And | ||
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Last.Midnight
Australia906 Posts
And of course he's a good player. He's A rank - sometimes S. I'm simply talking about something that, unfortunately, prevents him from being as great as he could be and leads to results like this series, or never doing well in BSL. I'm not sure what the solution is. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines814 Posts
On September 29 2025 12:46 prosatan wrote: + Show Spoiler + The games ended very quickly ... without Sziky doing 4 pool or anything like that... at least with Ret he put up a bit of resistance and fought a few battles.. is there VOD link for sziky vs arty? | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
As insane and terrible Artosis' chat is on average. his chat still provides many helpful insights and tips, that could make Artosis be a better gamer without an external coach coming in, but like you said. Artosis won't have it. To coach Artosis you need to be a respected and (far) better player than he is and be proficient enough in English. There is maybe 1-3 people that fit that criteria, Scan being one of them. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9296 Posts
On September 29 2025 20:59 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: is there VOD link for sziky vs arty? https://m.twitch.tv/videos/2578283235 | ||
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Last.Midnight
Australia906 Posts
On September 29 2025 21:13 Peeano wrote: The reason I mentioned Scan, is because he's one of the few players Artosis respects skill and knowledge wise, and Scan has actually made Artosis a better player. As insane and terrible Artosis' chat is on average. his chat still provides many helpful insights and tips, that could make Artosis be a better gamer without an external coach coming in, but like you said. Artosis won't have it. To coach Artosis you need to be a respected and (far) better player than he is and be proficient enough in English. There is maybe 1-3 people that fit that criteria, Scan being one of them. He cut gypsy's coaching short saying "oh ok I get it" after like 15 minutes, indicating he didn't need to review another rep or watch gypsy play a TvZ despite gypsy clearly feeling otherwise. He did incorporate some ideas and play his next TvZ better, but he was still making a ton of errors that gypsy pointed out that could have been addressed with more time. He's a free man - he can do what he wants. His stream is a gigantic success and he's built a dream life for himself. He doesn't HAVE to listen to any of us or do anything different, but I find it hard to believe he wants to be a serious player when he doesn't prep, drill, or even let top foreign Terrans finish a coaching session on THEIR terms. It feels like the 'I'm working on my gameplay' angle is just part of the brand/engagement strategy, since who wants to watch a stream of a player who's given up on progress? | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia982 Posts
It's been an ongoing process for him, and maybe he'll get there one day. The simple truth is that your best tournament performance will be reached when you go for strategies that are simple enough for you to execute very well, while requiring the next level of skill to stop. I don't necessarily mean pure cheese, but there is such low hanging fruit in every matchup, for every race, at every skill range. They plateau and are not good for long-term practice/development, but you still need to be very familiar with them to execute them properly during competition. At the very least, one should always have in their arsenal the best and most annoying timings that their mechanics allow them to pull off. And the humility to skip the ones that you can't, when there are stakes. And the humility to be extra defensive on the macro openers/choose openers accordingly, if you can't handle every possible all-in comfortably with your micro...and so on. If your pride doesn't allow you to do that? Well, kill your wrists and arms, and study, and get good. Can't exactly half ass getting to the next level. | ||
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Pelloth99
Poland20 Posts
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iRkSupperman
Norway140 Posts
Fun event btw and it got good viewership across Gypsy+Artosis+Ret streams, hope to see more matches like this. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 29 2025 19:18 Last.Midnight wrote: I love Artosis but he is fundamentally uncoachable and I don't see that changing. The central pillar of his whole identity in the world is that he's the non-Korean BW expert. That's been his self-image for decades as a caster, analyst, player, etc. Engaging in longer coaching sessions and really internalising what another human has to say about the game erodes that and his psyche sees that as an existential threat - after all, what value does he have as a human if someone else can tell him things about BW he doesn't already understand? It's a threat to his LIFE to sit down and listen to anyone explain the game to him for too long, and so he's created an echo chamber with Tasteless and his YT subscribers where he gets to retain his identity. To his credit, he will listen to a point. But even when Scan is explaining the game to him, you can see him drifting in and out and rejecting ideas under the premise that "that's not my style" or "I don't prefer to play that way". It's a rigid lack of flexibility and ego that keeps him down and always will. Nyoken was a better player and was a better BW caster. I'm pretty sure that Artosis has never been able to say "this is what the player I'm currently casting did when they played me on the ladder in this map". | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
On September 30 2025 00:53 iRkSupperman wrote: Why are we spoilering in a live report thread???? Fun event btw and it got good viewership across Gypsy+Artosis+Ret streams, hope to see more matches like this. It's in General, not in Tourneys, so this isn't an LR thread. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
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Maksim2010
47 Posts
What everyone expected Ret is one of the best foreigner to ever touch StarCraft/StarCraft2 not so successful but very high in the ladder | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1569 Posts
On September 30 2025 12:26 Maksim2010 wrote: + Show Spoiler + What everyone expected Ret is one of the best foreigner to ever touch StarCraft/StarCraft2 not so successful but very high in the ladder What ladder would that be? Shield Battery? RT is 18th there atm. We assume this is Ret's ladder account with 10 A ranks: https://cwal.gg/players/gateway/20/player/retje As of this message RT has 1 account at A 2229 BSL-Artosis on Europe which is 40 points higher than Ret's highest account. It was the reverse the day of the showmatch. There's pretty high mmr variance on ladder. S rank is at 2244 atm. + Show Spoiler + I was surprised by the result, because I was only looking at those recent ladder rankings that clearly don't tell the full story. | ||
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iRkSupperman
Norway140 Posts
On September 30 2025 06:17 Peeano wrote: It's in General, not in Tourneys, so this isn't an LR thread. The BW section of TL has like 5 threads a month. Splitting it in three is completely artificial at this point lmao | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5898 Posts
On October 01 2025 00:50 iRkSupperman wrote: The BW section of TL has like 5 threads a month. Splitting it in three is completely artificial at this point lmao No one bothered to make an LR and used spoilers instead. It's how TL has always worked. Why would TL remove/merge perfectly working subforums just because you think it's redundant or not necessary to use spoilers? Lmao | ||
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iRkSupperman
Norway140 Posts
On October 01 2025 04:00 Peeano wrote: No one bothered to make an LR and used spoilers instead. It's how TL has always worked. Why would TL remove/merge perfectly working subforums just because you think it's redundant or not necessary to use spoilers? Lmao Because nobody cares that much about the result of a random showmatch to go ahead and ruin the reading experience like people are doing | ||
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TwiggyWan
France342 Posts
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pseudosignal
46 Posts
Like, what do you actually think is going to be happening in the thread considering this has already happened? I'm genuinely curious. | ||
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Kanzzer
62 Posts
On September 30 2025 06:16 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Nyoken was a better player and was a better BW caster. I'm pretty sure that Artosis has never been able to say "this is what the player I'm currently casting did when they played me on the ladder in this map". Nyoken was a better caster in what regard? Play analysis, definitely better than Artosis. Play-by-play casting? They are both good, but Nyoken was definitely not "better". Color commentary? Arty blows Nyoken out of the water. Nyoken is better for people who are interested in the technical details of the ongoing matches. Which is fine, but deeming it as if he's objectively better just seems like you are hating on Arty. Such big reason BW esports is still attracting new viewers (many don't even play) is due to Artosis' style of casting. I mean if Tastosis go with the highly technicaly analysis-style of casting that Nyoken has, they would never make north of $12k per month on Patreon like they do right now (and that includes months where ASLs are not even on). Even worse, SOOP may not even officially partner with any foreign casters at all. I love Nyoken's casts. I myself would watch his over Tastosis. I wish he didn't retire. But that's just me & you, not everyone's cup of tea. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 01 2025 21:41 Kanzzer wrote: Nyoken was a better caster in what regard? Play analysis, definitely better than Artosis. Play-by-play casting? They are both good, but Nyoken was definitely not "better". Color commentary? Arty blows Nyoken out of the water. Nyoken is better for people who are interested in the technical details of the ongoing matches. Which is fine, but deeming it as if he's objectively better just seems like you are hating on Arty. Such big reason BW esports is still attracting new viewers (many don't even play) is due to Artosis' style of casting. I mean if Tastosis go with the highly technicaly analysis-style of casting that Nyoken has, they would never make north of $12k per month on Patreon like they do right now (and that includes months where ASLs are not even on). Even worse, SOOP may not even officially partner with any foreign casters at all. I love Nyoken's casts. I myself would watch his over Tastosis. I wish he didn't retire. But that's just me & you, not everyone's cup of tea. Tastosis shoot the shit with Starcraft in the background. They can be quite funny, but the next piece of insightful commentary they deliver will be their first in years. Weirdos with a para-social relationship to internet people paying $12,000 a month does not change that. They're entertainers, not casters. | ||
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